MIN-CHI-LAL

[shrink]

This trade has received some kudos on the Trade Board, with an assist from post.

MIN GIVES: $6.5 mil in cap space + future 2nd
MIN GETS: Vujacic + CHI 2011 (lottery protected, declining), CHA 2012 (top 12 prot/10/3 unp)

CHI GIVES: Hinrich + CHI 2011 (lottery protected, declining), CHA 2012 (top 12 prot/10/3 unp)
CHI GETS: $7 mil in cap space + Farmar S&T

LAL GIVES: Vujacic + Farmar S&T
LAL GETS: Hinrich

WHY FOR MIN: If MIN thinks they'll be shut out in free agency, this allows them to convert the one-year of raw cap space into future picks. The Bulls pick will probably be in the 20's after free agency, but the CHA pick is appealing for a team willing to wait for its value. This officially takes them out of the free agent sweepstakes preemptively though, which may alienate some fans. However, I suspect that MIN ends up unwilling to overpay in free agency, and eventually ends up selling cap space this year to help teams get free agents, or to get under the lux.

WHY FOR CHI: I calculate MIL is looking at about $18.5 mil in cap space to sign an elite FA, but they don't have much to build a team around him, or to encourage him to come. Rose and Noah are nice players but young, and Deng and Hinrich aren't big draws. If you use cap space to sign a free agent, you have to rescind all your exceptions as well, even the TPE. Farmar's a legit back-up to Rose, but the key is the cap space. $18.5 would get you one great player, but would $25.5 ($14.5 + $11) be better? Is that enough for Wade or Bosh + some reasonably priced legit players? Boozer + Joe Johnson? The deal also moves Hinrich's onerous salary for 2011-12.

WHY FOR LAL: They get their starting PG to replace Fisher, and all it costs them is money - not talent.

[ritt0093]

If we were to decide that everyone wanted more money than we felt they were worth I wouldn't mind this trade. The only problem I see is in the timing. If I am CHI then I want to free up this cap space as quickly as possible to make a move on the guys I want, but if I'm MIN I want to wait to give away my cap space until I'm sure I can't get anyone I want signed to a deal I like. So I think if the timing wasn't so conflicted the deal makes sense, but I can't see Kahn giving away 6.5 million in cap space so early in the free agency period. I do agree though that we may use it towards the end of the period to help some team get under the lux tax when team salaries for next year are more clear.

[john2jer]

Where does Sota's future 2nd go?

I'd do this trade. Vujacic is worthless, but if we're only going to use our cap space on Pekovic and Darko, then I'd make this trade to pick up 2 future 1sts.

As ritt said, I'd prefer this to be done later in the summer, though.

[cpfsf]

Git-R-Done

[slinky]

Are we able to take on Vujacic and still sign Darko and Pekovic? I guess it probably depends on what they want to sign for. But I probably also fall into the 'need to wait and see what happens in FA first' category.

[shrink]

If we were to decide that everyone wanted more money than we felt they were worth I wouldn't mind this trade. The only problem I see is in the timing. If I am CHI then I want to free up this cap space as quickly as possible to make a move on the guys I want, but if I'm MIN I want to wait to give away my cap space until I'm sure I can't get anyone I want signed to a deal I like. So I think if the timing wasn't so conflicted the deal makes sense, but I can't see Kahn giving away 6.5 million in cap space so early in the free agency period. I do agree though that we may use it towards the end of the period to help some team get under the lux tax when team salaries for next year are more clear.

Well said. I think the timing would be the biggest issue.

This is the type of deal that makes me wish that I worked inside the league. Its all about information, and the type that we don't get as fans.

For example, LeBron can't tell the media he's definitely coming to New York, but as Chris Sheridan points out, if you were the Knicks, would you be trading a future 1st to move Jared Jeffries if you weren't confident that you were going to get James? I think a lot of this talk has already gone on through back channels.

I agree with your point, and as a fan, I'd rather have someone like Rudy Gay (at a reasonable price), than a CHI-prospect in 2011, and whatever the CHA 2012 turns into. However, if we KNEW we can't use the money for a major free agent, I think this price is more than fair for a one year delay. The question to me is, "Do the inner circles know it at the beginning of free agency?"

[C.lupus]

Well said. I think the timing would be the biggest issue.

This is the type of deal that makes me wish that I worked inside the league. Its all about information, and the type that we don't get as fans.

For example, LeBron can't tell the media he's definitely coming to New York, but as Chris Sheridan points out, if you were the Knicks, would you be trading a future 1st to move Jared Jeffries if you weren't confident that you were going to get James? I think a lot of this talk has already gone on through back channels.

I agree with your point, and as a fan, I'd rather have someone like Rudy Gay (at a reasonable price), than a CHI-prospect in 2011, and whatever the CHA 2012 turns into. However, if we KNEW we can't use the money for a major free agent, I think this price is more than fair for a one year delay. The question to me is, "Do the inner circles know it at the beginning of free agency?"

Well, taking this a step further, Kahn seems pretty confident in getting a FA with his cap space so....

[cpfsf]

I'm not too familiar with S&T rules, but I wanted to see what you all think of this.

MIN OUT Sessions + Houston 2010 (2nd round)
MIN IN Vujacic + Charlotte 2012 (1st round) + Memphis 2010 (2nd round) + cash

*I Don't think we can get 2 first round picks, so I did a slight change

CHI OUT Hinrich + Charlotte 2012 (1st round) + cash
CHI IN Conley + Haddadi

LAL OUT Vujacic + Memphis 2010 (2nd round)
LAL IN Hinrich + Houston 2010 (2nd round)

MEM OUT Conley + Haddadi
MEM IN Sessions

[shrink]

I'm not too familiar with S&T rules, but I wanted to see what you all think of this.

MIN OUT Sessions + Houston 2010 (2nd round)
MIN IN Vujacic + Charlotte 2012 (1st round) + Memphis 2010 (2nd round) + cash

*I Don't think we can get 2 first round picks, so I did a slight change

CHI OUT Hinrich + Charlotte 2012 (1st round) + cash
CHI IN Conley + Haddadi

LAL OUT Vujacic + Memphis 2010 (2nd round)
LAL IN Hinrich + Houston 2010 (2nd round)

MEM OUT Conley + Haddadi
MEM IN Sessions

I think I'd trade Sessions and $1/5 mil in cap space for the future CHA pick. I believe it has the same protections as our CHA pick (Top 12, 10, 8, 3, unprotected), and I think it could be valuable as the Bobcats age.

Lakers need to add salary to make your trade legal. They are over the cap, and in order to add Hinrich's $9 mil, they need to send out $7.12 mil.

[cpfsf]

lame

[post0115]

I really like the opening trade that Shrink posted

MIN GIVES: $6.5 mil in cap space + future 2nd
MIN GETS: Vujacic + CHI 2011 (lottery protected, declining), CHA 2012 (top 12 prot/10/3 unp)

CHI GIVES: Hinrich + CHI 2011 (lottery protected, declining), CHA 2012 (top 12 prot/10/3 unp)
CHI GETS: $7 mil in cap space + Farmar S&T

LAL GIVES: Vujacic + Farmar S&T
LAL GETS: Hinrich
-Note from my numbers I see MN taking on $5mm in cap space, not $6.5mm

Let's say MN resigns Milicic (actual looks plausible at this point) then go wing crazy in the draft

Trade #17 and Pekovic to Milwaukee for #11.

MN takes Turner at #2 (still praying for this), takes Whiteside, X. Henry, or Monroe at #11, then at #24 take S. Robinson, Q. Pondexter, P. George, or Ebanks at #24.

Our 2010 roster would be something like this
PG Flynn, Sessions
SG Turner, Brewer, Ellington
SF X. Henry, P. George
PF Jefferson, Love
C Milicic, Hollins
We still get Rubio in 2011 and have our 2011 pick (LAC protection) along with Chi pick and Cha pick

[TrentTuckerForever]

This is the type of deal that makes me wish that I worked inside the league. Its all about information, and the type that we don't get as fans.

For example, LeBron can't tell the media he's definitely coming to New York, but as Chris Sheridan points out, if you were the Knicks, would you be trading a future 1st to move Jared Jeffries if you weren't confident that you were going to get James? I think a lot of this talk has already gone on through back channels.

Shrink, articles like this are evidence, to me, of that kind of back channel talk:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1310 ... ree-agency

A little off-topic, but I'd guess from this that LeBron/Wade want to control the market as much as possible. A smart move, especially with the economy changing the way that teams spend money. I disagree with Sheridan on intent (I don't think parting with that 1st rounder did anything but prove that the Knicks are desperate) but moves like this in the world of player representation definitely hint that the 2010 free agent war has already begun.

[horaceworthy]

I like the idea of getting Hinrich and spinning him off to another team, but I don't think LAL would be that team, as I stand in opposition to any deal that brings Sasha Vujacic our way. The two teams I think present the most possibility to value Hinrich more than most would be Indiana or Portland.

Something like:

CHI out: Hinrich, future CHA pick
CHI in: Sessions, Gomes

MIN out: Sessions, Gomes
MIN in: future CHA pick, Jeff Foster (exp.), future protected pick from Indy

The Portland trade would have to include another team, funnily enough, that team could be Indy, since POR would likely give up Dre Miller in a Hinrich deal, and Indy's one of the few teams that needs a PG.

[C.lupus]

I like the idea of getting Hinrich and spinning him off to another team, but I don't think LAL would be that team, as I stand in opposition to any deal that brings Sasha Vujacic our way.

I stand in opposition to any deal that brings any Sasha our way. NO MORE SASHAS. That bridge has been burned burned, reburned, and it's ashes spread to the farthest reaches of eastern Europe.

[GopherIt!]

NO MORE SASHA'S! AND NO MORE HASSELHOFF! GO USA!

[Narf]

It's a good backup plan, but it's not what I'd want as a first option.