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Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version

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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1461 » by Ruzious » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:39 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:
nate33 wrote:With Arenas, Blatche and a top 5 pick, I don't see us finishing in the top of the lottery no matter what we do, so there's no point in intentionally tanking next year.


I don't know about that, I think we just might have what it takes.

Unfortunately, you are correct sir. I was fooled a while back when Blatche and Jav were looking like the twin towers for... 2 games, but... we are a long ways away, fellas. It's going to take more than 1 more year to reach even respectability.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1462 » by Kanyewest » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:31 pm

Stevenson certainly wasn't a great contract but he wasn't that bad especially in the 07-08 season when the Wizards made the playoffs. With a Daniels/Stevenson backcourt, the Wizards made the playoffs. With the same staring frontcourt of Butler, Jamison, and Haywood, the Wizards were on the outside looking in with a backcourt of Arenas and Miller. Of course, perhaps Eddie Jordan was a better fit for this team or maybe the Wizards missed DSong playing center.

The downfall of Stevenson
- Back injuries- (see how that's effected T-Mac's career)
- Gilbert Arenas never returned to his former self.
- Eddie Jordan's offense covered up for Stevenson's deficiencies- (remember how well Juan Dixon played in the beginning of last season coming off the bench?)

Stevenson would be useful on a team that is competing for a championship. Dallas needs someone like Stevenson to throw at Kobe Bryant/Carmelo Anthony/LeBron James.

Ultimately, the WIzards "3 all stars" were not elite players and were never going to be the leading members of a championship squad. Remember how Flip was supposed to translate our talent into playoff success that somehow Eddie Jordan mismanged? Even before the Arenas fiasco, the Wizards were on the outside looking in for a playoff spot.

And since the Wizards' best talent isn't as good as a team like Cavs, how were the Wizards supposed to make up ground on the Cavs if they were willing to spend more money? They were willing to throw more money at Larry Hughes. They are willing to take on more salary to get closer to a championship. They don't trade draft picks for cash considerations. BTW, the draft is the best chance to accumulate talent which doesn't cost as much. It would be the Wizards best chance to even the playing field.

I will give Grunfeld SOME credit for finding these guys for real cheap that produce well- (Alonzo Gee, Earl Boykins, DeShawn Stevenson, Roger Mason, Laron Profit).
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1463 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:05 am

Severn Hoos wrote:nate - I asked this a few weeks back, sorry if you or anyone else answered and I missed it.

What happens if we sign Howard to a 1-year, low salary deal? do we keep his Bird rights into Summer 2011?

For example - suppose he has no suitors this summer, given his age, injury (may miss half of the season), and whatever other "issues" may scare away GMs. So the Wiz offer him a 1-year deal at $2M. Then, in Summer 2011, do the Wiz still hold Bird Rights to go over the cap to sign him? And if so, what is the cap hold? I thought it was 2x his last year's salary, so $4M?

In that scenario, there's virtually no risk, since there's no obligation if he never recovers or doesn't fit in to what the team is building. And if they do want to re-sign him in 2011, they only have a cap hold of $4M, they can go sign another FA (Gasol, Melo, whoever) with the remaining cap space, and come back to sign Howard after the fact. Is this correct?

I think the risks are too much to take if he'll only sign for a multi-year deal at MLE or above. But in a scenario like the one above, I'd be very interested in keeping him around. A year at $2M to show he's back, then three years might just work, provided they didn't go over, say $15M. Not sure if that's realistic, but it'd be a nice outcome. The team looked so much better when he was playing in the days after the trade.

We would retain his Bird Rights in that scenario. I don't think it really matters because we'd be under the cap.

I doubt Howard signs for $2M for 1 year. Somebody out there is either going to offer him more money for 1-year, or they'll offer a longer deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1464 » by Dat2U » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:05 am

I think Sev is on to something. Exactly what market is out there for a guy recoving from a seriously injury and coming off his worst season as a pro? Outside that 4 game audition before he got hurt he was stinking up the joint and struggling to find a good ankle to play on.

Howard might get more than $2 mil next year, but I have a hard time seeing a team giving him a multi-year deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1465 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:14 am

Ruzious wrote:
Hoopalotta wrote:
nate33 wrote:With Arenas, Blatche and a top 5 pick, I don't see us finishing in the top of the lottery no matter what we do, so there's no point in intentionally tanking next year.


I don't know about that, I think we just might have what it takes.

Unfortunately, you are correct sir. I was fooled a while back when Blatche and Jav were looking like the twin towers for... 2 games, but... we are a long ways away, fellas. It's going to take more than 1 more year to reach even respectability.


I always blame Flip and/or EG and the system.

Javale and Andray are fine for 22 and 23 years old. They're good. They've got a hater of a coach.

Blatche has been so much better than Flip I can't see why he's the one who gets criticism and not the coach.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1466 » by verbal8 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:15 pm

Dat2U wrote:I think Sev is on to something. Exactly what market is out there for a guy recoving from a seriously injury and coming off his worst season as a pro? Outside that 4 game audition before he got hurt he was stinking up the joint and struggling to find a good ankle to play on.

Howard might get more than $2 mil next year, but I have a hard time seeing a team giving him a multi-year deal.


I think multiple teams would be interested in him at the LLE(which is close to 2 million). They probably give him 2 years, but may not fully guarantee the 2nd. I think the Wizards may have to offer a little more to keep him. If the goal is to maximize cap space this year, I think giving him a player option for 2011/12 may be able to beat out other offers. If the goal is for cap space for 2011/12, then it should be a higher salary this season and a team option or unguaranteed second year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1467 » by Severn Hoos » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:58 pm

nate33 wrote:We would retain his Bird Rights in that scenario. I don't think it really matters because we'd be under the cap.

I doubt Howard signs for $2M for 1 year. Somebody out there is either going to offer him more money for 1-year, or they'll offer a longer deal.


In theory, my point of having Bird Rights is to do an end run around the cap, even if the team is technically under the cap. Suppose a team has $16M in cap space, not including a FA that is expiring. If his cap hold is $4M and they don't renounce him, they're down to $12M of pure cap space. They then use that $12M to sign a big-name FA and turn to their own FA. Since they have Bird Rights, they can sign him to a deal starting above the $4M cap hold if they want - say starting at $6M. So now they get both players, instead of starting their own guy at $6M to start and losing out on the other FA.

I'm not saying it's necessarily wise or feasible, and probably just being too clever by half, but it might be worth a look.

And Dat - you may be right about Howard's market value being somewhat depressed. In fact, he just might go for a $2-3M deal from the Wiz, specifically based on the scenario I laid out. It wouldn't even have to be a wink-wink, it could be a legitimate discussion between him & the team: Go out and show us what you can do and we'll talk again next summer. No promises, no strings. No violation of the cap, but each side understands the benefit of working together. Probably won't happen, but interesting nonetheless.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1468 » by verbal8 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:38 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:In theory, my point of having Bird Rights is to do an end run around the cap, even if the team is technically under the cap. Suppose a team has $16M in cap space, not including a FA that is expiring. If his cap hold is $4M and they don't renounce him, they're down to $12M of pure cap space. They then use that $12M to sign a big-name FA and turn to their own FA. Since they have Bird Rights, they can sign him to a deal starting above the $4M cap hold if they want - say starting at $6M. So now they get both players, instead of starting their own guy at $6M to start and losing out on the other FA.


Another advantage of Bird RIghts vs having to use cap space is you can more easily offer a declining deal(and I think decline more) which frees up cap space in future years.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1469 » by nate33 » Thu Apr 1, 2010 1:10 am

Dat2U wrote:I think Sev is on to something. Exactly what market is out there for a guy recoving from a seriously injury and coming off his worst season as a pro? Outside that 4 game audition before he got hurt he was stinking up the joint and struggling to find a good ankle to play on.

Howard might get more than $2 mil next year, but I have a hard time seeing a team giving him a multi-year deal.

Sign me up for Josh Howard on a 1-year deal. I've got no problems with that. My only point on Josh Howard is that I think he is a potential candidate for a bargain salary based on his perceived bad attitude and the injury. I don't want to miss out on a shot at a bargain salary just because he's 30 years old and we're rebuilding.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1470 » by closg00 » Thu Apr 1, 2010 2:55 pm

Seriously, how-many surgically-repaired guys should we risk having on this team, with OUR medical staff? Can Livingston, Arenas, & Howard make it through 82 games?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1471 » by verbal8 » Thu Apr 1, 2010 2:59 pm

closg00 wrote:Seriously, how-many surgically-repaired guys should we risk having on this team, with OUR medical staff? Can Livingston, Arenas, & Howard make it through 82 games?

The Wizards are stuck with accepting the risk of Arenas.

If they are smart the risk on Livingston and Howard combined should not be less than 5 million, basically worst case is you have a Mike James situation(spend MLE money and get no production).
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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1472 » by nate33 » Thu Apr 1, 2010 3:08 pm

Crap. I can't lock threads on the Wizards board.

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Re: Official Trade Thread XII - 2010 Deadline Version 

Post#1473 » by LyricalRico » Thu Apr 1, 2010 3:42 pm

I got your back, nate. Locking...

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