Can we trade up?

Crossova21 · Post #1 » by **Crossova21** » Thu Apr 1, 2010 2:30 pm

Looks like we'll finish with the 10th worst record...once again missing out of superstar talent. Seems like every lottery team except the Pacers has figured out to get wall or turner you have to lose. Anyways if we were to somehow trade up in the draft:

1.) Who/what do we trade?

and

2.) Which lottery team, in your opinion, will look to trade down?

Post #2 » by **mizzoupacers** » Thu Apr 1, 2010 2:57 pm

Sure, the Pacers can trade up. All they have to do is offer Granger or Hibbert.

In other words, no, the Pacers can't trade up. Unless someone wants a package of our #10 and #40 picks, which to me seems very unlikely.

kdawg531 · Post #3 » by **kdawg531** » Thu Apr 1, 2010 4:53 pm

Assuming the Nets draft John Wall, wouldn't it be safe to say that Devin Harris would be expendable?

I would think that they may have some interest in our contracts that expire the following summer since they could use the cap space and still won't be a playoff team next year.

I know it's not trading up as such but this type of deal makes sense for both teams.

Post #4 » by **Grang33r** » Thu Apr 1, 2010 5:54 pm

We lost our chance at a top 3 talent, now we have to face facts and realize the reality, and start thinking which guy we can pick 10th who can be a "steal". Hope Larry Bird did his homework....

Boneman2 · Post #5 » by **Boneman2** » Thu Apr 1, 2010 6:47 pm

No need to reduce our roster for something we had in our grasp just two weeks ago. That would be stupid. We gotta take this late season surge for better or worse, and while I don't think it was worthwhile, others do. You gotta respect winning.

Unfortunately, I am having nightmares having lost out on Brandon Jennings last year, and now Favors & Cousins this year. Not too mention a small chance at Wall or Turner. Oh well, I believe we'll be very aggresive once transactions resume.

GS is changing ownership, and there is a chance they would accept expirings and a high-first for Monta. Their front-office & fanbase consensually prefer his clone, S.Curry, whose play is similar and pay is a lot less.

Post #6 » by **Grang33r** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 2:04 am

Boneman2 wrote:No need to reduce our roster for something we had in our grasp just two weeks ago. That would be stupid. We gotta take this late season surge for better or worse, and while I don't think it was worthwhile, others do. You gotta respect winning.

Unfortunately, I am having nightmares having lost out on Brandon Jennings last year, and now Favors & Cousins this year. Not too mention a small chance at Wall or Turner. Oh well, I believe we'll be very aggresive once transactions resume.

GS is changing ownership, and there is a chance they would accept expirings and a high-first for Monta. Their front-office & fanbase consensually prefer his clone, S.Curry, whose play is similar and pay is a lot less.

If all went right, we could have had Jennings/Turner and the talk of an empty arena and no playoffs would be a thing of the past. Now, we're stuck with a bench player Hansbrough with the 13th pick and who knows this upcoming draft. FAN-TAS-TIC.

Boneman2 · Post #7 » by **Boneman2** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 2:46 am

Nice summary^^^

Jennings was the biggest acquisition for the Bucks last offseason, and the results speak for themselves because the Bucks will make the playoffs. Our rebuilding process might be completed by Granger's 10th season, simply ridiculous. This one-step forward and two-back routine is similar to continuously shooting yourself in the foot. This is exactly why Conseco is not filled to capacity..... Good call Grang33r

Kuq_e_Zi91 · Post #8 » by **Kuq_e_Zi91** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 5:38 am

Grang33r wrote:If all went right, we could have had Jennings/Turner and the talk of an empty arena and no playoffs would be a thing of the past. Now, we're stuck with a bench player Hansbrough with the 13th pick and who knows this upcoming draft. FAN-TAS-TIC.

Sure, that sounds nice but it's not quite accurate. Draft Jennings and this team isn't nearly as bad, so we wouldn't be in a position to draft Turner.

I wanted Jennings too, but I have serious doubts that Bird would have drafted him if he was still on the board. We heard two names from the Pacers, Hansbrough and Lawson. 4 year, proven collegiate players. The 19 year old who rebelled against the system with a questionable attitude and red flags isn't really Bird's type. You can agree or disagree with the "safe-pick" direction the Pacers have chosen in recent drafts, but you can't argue that the image Jennings embodies is precisely what Bird has tried to distance the team from.

Personally, I think we need to take a chance on one of these high-risk/high-reward players sooner or later because we're just so devoid of talent right now, but I'm not sure Bird agrees. He has a plan and he's sticking to it. Having a lottery pick blow up in his face at this point of the rebuilding would be a huge step backwards.

Anyway, there's no use in looking back and thinking, "What could have been?" We could have had Patrick Ewing.

Boneman2 · Post #9 » by **Boneman2** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 2:52 pm

^^^^ I am pretty sure Larry loathed Tyreke Evans from last years draft. Atleast there were reports that Larry would trade up to get him if possible. It is safe to assume that Larry wanted a point guard in the last draft. But the right one didn't fall to him. Larry also likes highly projected players that drop(Granger,Bayless), along with reaching for players (Williams,Hansbrough).

Post #10 » by **Grang33r** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 7:18 pm

Boneman2 wrote:^^^^ I am pretty sure Larry loathed Tyreke Evans from last years draft. Atleast there were reports that Larry would trade up to get him if possible. It is safe to assume that Larry wanted a point guard in the last draft. But the right one didn't fall to him. Larry also likes highly projected players that drop(Granger,Bayless), along with reaching for players (Williams,Hansbrough).

I remember reading that too. I don't know if it was a ploy or not, but i thought Evans had more off-field problems then any player in the draft so i was iffy when i read that report. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't take Brandon Jennings if he was on the board at our pick.

Thing that worries me is, we picked Hansbrough because we felt he would be a good NBA player for a long time, yet, passed up on a few guys who are looking like future stars..... Ty Lawson, Rodrigue Beaubois and Darren Collison, and Jrue Holiday is looking very good in Philly. If we passed on all these guys with a big glaring weakness at PG, what makes me believe they won't over look other stars with their pick at #10 for example?

Their not exactly striking gold with Rush or Hansbrough.

MNPacersfan · Post #11 » by **MNPacersfan** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 8:51 pm

Jordan Crawford looks high-risk, high-reward and most mocks are putting him late first/early 2nd. Watch him shoot up to top 15-dom after the pre draft workouts are completed though.

I think his understanding of the game is fantastic. I think that his performance in the OT vs K-state was indicative of the knowledge that his team was worn out and that he was the only one that could make a stand rather than him trying to take over the game for selfish reasons. That's a good thing.

Is he pick 10 though? I think he's going to be worth it. Pacers may be looking for a 4 though.

Post #12 » by **Grang33r** » Fri Apr 2, 2010 9:33 pm

MNPacersfan wrote:Jordan Crawford looks high-risk, high-reward and most mocks are putting him late first/early 2nd. Watch him shoot up to top 15-dom after the pre draft workouts are completed though.

I think his understanding of the game is fantastic. I think that his performance in the OT vs K-state was indicative of the knowledge that his team was worn out and that he was the only one that could make a stand rather than him trying to take over the game for selfish reasons. That's a good thing.

Is he pick 10 though? I think he's going to be worth it. Pacers may be looking for a 4 though.

Shooting 3 for 12 from three point range is not a good thing. He hurt his team, didn't realize he couldn't make a shot to save his life yet kept chucking shots. He does have the capabilities to get hot. But, when he gets cold, he makes Jamaal Tinsley look like a NBA star.

Post #13 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Apr 3, 2010 3:13 am

Grang33r wrote:
I remember reading that too. I don't know if it was a ploy or not, but i thought Evans had more off-field problems then any player in the draft so i was iffy when i read that report. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't take Brandon Jennings if he was on the board at our pick.

Thing that worries me is, we picked Hansbrough because we felt he would be a good NBA player for a long time, yet, passed up on a few guys who are looking like future stars..... Ty Lawson, Rodrigue Beaubois and Darren Collison, and Jrue Holiday is looking very good in Philly. If we passed on all these guys with a big glaring weakness at PG, what makes me believe they won't over look other stars with their pick at #10 for example?

Their not exactly striking gold with Rush or Hansbrough.

Eh, it's not like Rodrigue Beaubois was known or heard of before the draft. He was NEVER mentioned on this forum, until draft night when it elicited quite a bit of "Huh?"'s. Lawson fell, and a lot of teams passed on him. Collison was never considered a top half of the 1st round guy. Many of us wanted him in the late 1st with a trade down, but I think I was called crazy for even saying that.

Yet, it's ridiculously early. Let's see how many of these guys turn out to be Jamaal Tinsley's and how many turn out to be Chris Paul's, like it seems some people think they will be.

Let's call Bird out on his mis-steps. However, I don't think he really messed anything up. I think it was probably too expensive to trade up, and he never had a chance at a guy like Jennings, Evans, Hill, etc. It probably wasn't valuable at all to trade down, and he had a decent guy he liked available at 13 who was just about the right fit. Can't exactly blame him there. No one saw Blair playing like this. No one saw Collison being more than an interesting pick late in the draft. It's not exactly like these guys were picked right after Hansbrough. Naw. They kept falling. Bird wasn't the only one who missed on them. But we'll see how well they turn out, and where Bird goes in this draft.

Post #14 » by **Miller4ever** » Sat Apr 3, 2010 7:35 am

I remember that the Bayless trade wasn't just for talent. It was for financial reasons, getting two players for the price of what Bayless would've cost us.

Post #15 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Apr 3, 2010 2:20 pm

I will say that Shawne Williams was definitely a mis-step. Though, passing on that one PG (Marcus Williams?) for him doesn't necessarily looks so bad for us now, especially since we were able to dump Shawne for 2 2nds.

8305 · Post #16 » by **8305** » Sat Apr 3, 2010 2:57 pm

I don't see us trading up this year. We just don't have the assets that anyone would be willing to trade (assuming Granger and HIbbert are off limits). Once you get beyond top four I think this thing is hard to grade anyway. So I'm not sure it would make sense to lose the asset it would take to move up.

For what its worth I think the Aminu and Johnson on talent alone rate 5 and 6 in this draft. We don't have a pressing need at that position anyway. But, if one of these guys was there at 10 on a smaller scale it would be a little like 2005 and you would have to sieze the opportunity and take the best player available.

Crossova21 · Post #17 » by **Crossova21** » Sun Apr 4, 2010 3:38 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:I will say that Shawne Williams was definitely a mis-step. Though, passing on that one PG (Marcus Williams?) for him doesn't necessarily looks so bad for us now, especially since we were able to dump Shawne for 2 2nds.

Not that we could've known at the time but Rondo would have definitely been a better pick

kdawg531 · Post #18 » by **kdawg531** » Sun Apr 4, 2010 8:33 am

Crossova21 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I will say that Shawne Williams was definitely a mis-step. Though, passing on that one PG (Marcus Williams?) for him doesn't necessarily looks so bad for us now, especially since we were able to dump Shawne for 2 2nds.

Not that we could've known at the time but Rondo would have definitely been a better pick

Hard to say Rondo would be the player he currently he is without having the Big 3 around him while he developed.

Post #19 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sun Apr 4, 2010 11:21 pm

Crossova21 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I will say that Shawne Williams was definitely a mis-step. Though, passing on that one PG (Marcus Williams?) for him doesn't necessarily looks so bad for us now, especially since we were able to dump Shawne for 2 2nds.

Not that we could've known at the time but Rondo would have definitely been a better pick

Exactly. No one had any idea at the time. We all saw Rondo as the flawed offensive player that he still pretty much is. He's just lucky to have 3 HOF'ers around him to let him be the 4th/5th offensive option on the court at all times.

We can all look back and say that Rondo would've been better, but it's not like he was expected to go tremendously higher. Same for Collison. We can also look back and say that Mr. 37% from the field Brandon Jennings would've been great, but it's not like we ever had a chance at him anyway.

writerman · Post #20 » by **writerman** » Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:00 am

Am I the only optimist here?

Hey, the kids are playing well, since Obie finally developed the sense to play them. I'm liking what I see.

People tend to forget before he got his problem, Hansborough had some nice games.

I think Hibbert/Granger/Hansborough/McRoberts/Rush/Price is a pretty nice young core, with the jury out on Solo.

I think we'll pick up a couple of decent players in the draft. Price is an example that that can be done if you know what you're doing.

We'll have a ton of cap space next year. I think we're on course to be pretty good in a couple of years.