Arthur: Making playoffs will go long way in Bosh decision

[TheRealDeal]

One man's trash is another man's treasure right? If we have so many talented offensive players then its pretty obvious that this summer it's time to trade a few of them to a team in need of scoring to balance out our roster. Don't tell me we can't trade players because of their contracts because there are plenty of bad contracts around the league we could swap out for if the player complements our team better.

Now who that team/player is will be BC's to figure out but CB should recognize we have the pieces to put together a pretty strong squad next year with the right maneuvering.

[The Duke]

Beating the Cavs would go a longer way, in my personal opinion

[Brinbe]

Good piece. Securing a playoff spot, certainly beats the hell out of the alternative, which would result in Bosh definitely leaving.

But it is a tough road to manage, even if we do make it. Best-case is pushing the Cavs to 5/6 games and then BC will have to perform the absolute best sales job of his career. We'll see if he can get it done.

[gangstaff]

I don't understand why Bosh would care that much about another 4 games during which we get killed by the LeBron's. That is an incredibly small fraction of his time here. I call BS. If Bosh stays it's for the (relatively) small amount of money, in which case I lose a lot of respect for him.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't understand why Bosh would care that much about another 4 games during which we get killed by the LeBron's. That is an incredibly small fraction of his time here. I call BS. If Bosh stays it's for the (relatively) small amount of money, in which case I lose a lot of respect for him.

I'm guessing you've turned down a similar allotment of money for a better situation, which gives you the lofty perch to pass such judgement.

[Fairview4Life]

I don't understand why Bosh would care that much about another 4 games during which we get killed by the LeBron's. That is an incredibly small fraction of his time here. I call BS. If Bosh stays it's for the (relatively) small amount of money, in which case I lose a lot of respect for him.

I'm guessing you've turned down a similar allotment of money for a better situation, which gives you the lofty perch to pass such judgement.

There's also more to a better situation. I've heard Toronto is a nice place to live, for example.

[panthermark]

What's been most frustrating about this year is that this is probably one of the better Raptors squads ever assembled as far as depth and overall talent (offensive mind you but still) goes.

What's brutal is that this has been an extremely unusual year in the NBA. There might be 8 teams in the West this year who reach 50 or more wins! Are you kidding me? The top 16 teams in the league have taken a gigantic leap forward while we took a modest step. In past years, the talent seemed more evenly dispersed over the entire league save for one or perhaps two game-changing talents but in this Mark Cuban era of team building... anybody who wants to make the playoffs needs at least a big 3 of some kind and is at the tax, will be at the tax once their young core starts demanding more money, or is currently sitting in the luxury tax bracket.

You look at some of the top teams in the league and they read like all-star teams. Gone are the days where there was one superstar at the top (Jordan) capable of winning a game on his own and other teams hoping to win through a solid yet unspectacular franchise player, medium quality 2nd star and a mediocre 3rd banana. This current era is loaded with game changing talent. Lebron and Kobe are Jodan-esque. Durant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Mello and Howard aren't far behind in their own ways. And most of those guys are also playing with fellow all-stars or in extreme cases... future hall of famers. On top of that, you still have Boston in the mix, refusing to die quietly.

It's frustrating because I sense that Chris Bosh wants to stay here and wants to do the right thing and likes Toronto but let's all put ourselves in his shoes for a moment and imagine that this wasn't your dream job but instead "just a job." If you were working at a company that wasn't getting it done and you weren't having as much fun as your peers and another company promised you more and a chance at a better career, are you trying to tell me you wouldn't consider it? The funny part is that I think Chris Bosh has a better sense of loyalty and pride than many of us would to our current workplaces.

Bosh is a class act and it's a real shame we haven't done enough to build around him. It reminds me of KG in Minnesota all over again. And DON'T bring up the fact that KG brought Minnesota to the playoffs by himself. I'm not comparing their game-changing abilities; I'm merely comparing the fact that Bosh is almost at that same caliber AND IS A BETTER HUMAN BEING. And we're probably going to lose him cause we didn't do enough to keep him... Frustrating.

Excellent post!

As a Bulls fan, I actually agree.

I think Bosh WANTS to stay in Toronto...but knows that the team around him is not a contender, nor will be for the forseeable future. He has a better chance of winning on another team, but his heart is in Toronto.

[tecumseh18]

What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

Well, we're going to debate this a lot, but I am increasingly skeptical of Jack's conclusion, and yours. Our backcourt is weak, two good backups at point guard, two relatively ineffectual rookies at SG. Turkuglu is riding a reputation, not producing according to it, which means he is what he is. Wright is an over-rated defender, Belinelli a wild shooter, Amir is good for 10 minutes a game until he accumulates his third foul of the half. We have no backup C we want to put out there (no offence to Rasho, but he is just too slow now.)

If we're fifth best, it's only because of our scoring bigs. I am not a fan of Triano, but it's not all on him.

Sure. We can debate the talent level and I have soured a bit on the actual talent we have.

That said, how much better is Miami's roster than Toronto's ? Why is it that Jermaine O'Neal struggled in Toronto and appears to fit just fine in Miami? Why is it that the Heat play decent defence, while the Raptors are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Is Miami really 5 wins better than Toronto?

While I'm not pinning this all on Jay - I still believe coaching matters a lot. I also think that Jay's coddling of Turk and to a degree Bargnani, sent the wrong message to others, including Bosh.

The talent level is debateable, but can we at least agree that the Raps fully-healthy squad has more talent than the Warrior's B-team? Then how did they score 37 points in the first quarter on us, and beat us twice this year? Jay sez that the Jazz are bigger/faster/stronger, but their road record is only .500 (albeit that includes a lot of strong, Western teams).

This is ALL on Jay, unless he's only part a culture of coddlement that starts from the top. But it should be his decision to impose discipline.

[dagger]

What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

Well, we're going to debate this a lot, but I am increasingly skeptical of Jack's conclusion, and yours. Our backcourt is weak, two good backups at point guard, two relatively ineffectual rookies at SG. Turkuglu is riding a reputation, not producing according to it, which means he is what he is. Wright is an over-rated defender, Belinelli a wild shooter, Amir is good for 10 minutes a game until he accumulates his third foul of the half. We have no backup C we want to put out there (no offence to Rasho, but he is just too slow now.)

If we're fifth best, it's only because of our scoring bigs. I am not a fan of Triano, but it's not all on him.

Sure. We can debate the talent level and I have soured a bit on the actual talent we have.

That said, how much better is Miami's roster than Toronto's ? Why is it that Jermaine O'Neal struggled in Toronto and appears to fit just fine in Miami? Why is it that the Heat play decent defence, while the Raptors are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Is Miami really 5 wins better than Toronto?

While I'm not pinning this all on Jay - I still believe coaching matters a lot. I also think that Jay's coddling of Turk and to a degree Bargnani, sent the wrong message to others, including Bosh.

I think JO just needed another year to get his knees back to playing shape - not that he will ever be the player he was, but another year of recovery work has helped him immensely.

[tecumseh18]

I think JO just needed another year to get his knees back to playing shape - not that he will ever be the player he was, but another year of recovery work has helped him immensely.

Last game, Miami beat us without JO.

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

What is so frustrating is that the Raptors roster has talent. Jack Armstrong wrote yesterday that based on pure talent, the Raps are fifth best in the East. I tend to agree.

Well, we're going to debate this a lot, but I am increasingly skeptical of Jack's conclusion, and yours. Our backcourt is weak, two good backups at point guard, two relatively ineffectual rookies at SG. Turkuglu is riding a reputation, not producing according to it, which means he is what he is. Wright is an over-rated defender, Belinelli a wild shooter, Amir is good for 10 minutes a game until he accumulates his third foul of the half. We have no backup C we want to put out there (no offence to Rasho, but he is just too slow now.)

If we're fifth best, it's only because of our scoring bigs. I am not a fan of Triano, but it's not all on him.

Sure. We can debate the talent level and I have soured a bit on the actual talent we have.

That said, how much better is Miami's roster than Toronto's ? Why is it that Jermaine O'Neal struggled in Toronto and appears to fit just fine in Miami? Why is it that the Heat play decent defence, while the Raptors are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Is Miami really 5 wins better than Toronto?

While I'm not pinning this all on Jay - I still believe coaching matters a lot. I also think that Jay's coddling of Turk and to a degree Bargnani, sent the wrong message to others, including Bosh.

The talent level is debateable, but can we at least agree that the Raps fully-healthy squad has more talent than the Warrior's B-team? Then how did they score 37 points in the first quarter on us, and beat us twice this year? Jay sez that the Jazz are bigger/faster/stronger, but their road record is only .500 (albeit that includes a lot of strong, Western teams).

This is ALL on Jay, unless he's only part a culture of coddlement that starts from the top. But it should be his decision to impose discipline.[/quote]

One thing that was eybrow raising was Jay's use of zone against a sharp shooting team like the Warriors. You're trying to protect the paint against whom Jay? Whom?

[kush-]

It's jay's fault

get'em

[Prop]

if losing in the 1st round is what bosh needs to convince him to stay...then i guess we'll be welcoming him back with open arms.

[Rhettmatic]

I think JO just needed another year to get his knees back to playing shape - not that he will ever be the player he was, but another year of recovery work has helped him immensely.

The numbers do bear this out. JO's numbers in almost every area are much-improved and that goes for his time in Toronto and Miami (so it's not the Wade factor).

His DRTG has improved from 108 to 102, his ORTG from 102 to 108, his PER is up almost 3 points, his TS% is up by about .050 and his TRB% is up from 10.7 to 14.4.

He's a different player this year from last year. Like you say, it's not the JO of old, but he's been much, much better this year.

[Ari_Emanuel]

That's it basically:
"Yeah, because you put yourself in a position to salvage the Chris thing," said one source who knows Bosh well. "If you don't, I think you're done."

Yup.

One thing I took away from that article as well (and this took some reading between the lines) seems to be that Bosh really has a problem with Turkoglu and has half-assed attitude. These are the passages that gave me that impression:

And if you think Bosh isn't a franchise guy because he can't convince Turkoglu and Andrea Bargnani to play hard enough, just know that, in that regard, he is hardly alone

The other is that his post-all-star sprained ankle took a toll on him; that some of his teammates, Turkoglu in particular, took a toll on him;

Maybe, should general manager Bryan Colangelo somehow promise to and manage to trade Turkoglu - hey, it only sounds impossible - and somehow acquire one more major piece, then maybe Bosh thinks about it.

I assumed Bosh had a brewing problem with Turk months ago after a blowout loss and locker room blow up when Bosh said something to the effect of

"I shouldn't have to yell at scream at grown men (to do their job)"

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

I see it as if this team can put up a fight in the 1st round pushing the cavs till the last game and last buzzer, bosh will be more inclined to resigning here...but that also goes to say that BC will have to offer Bosh more than just money, like arthur said he will need to give him incentive that he will bring in a player via turk trade.

Now i see it as BC will try to move turk but thats near impossible with his play and contract so he will have to use other trading pieces as in calderon and our expirings and maybe even andrea? Seriously if anyone watched the CB4:See Before special you know all Chris wants is to win nothing more. The guy deserves it for as hard as he's worked on his game, and not once has he demanded to be traded through all the crap he's endured here. I mean out of his 7 seasons we made the postseason twice and this is possibly the third time. That's really bad.

I wish there was a way we could snag chris paul from NOH, if only there was a way. That would not only make us a top 3 team in the east but also get Chris to commit. Sigh but its a beautiful pipedream.

Potential Calderon Trade + MLE + Banks/Evans Expiring = a very good pitch. I don't see why moving Turk over Calderon makes sense. Turk gives us far more than Calderon. Both are great passers. Both can make their shots. Both are horrible defensive liabilities. But, Turk has length and is a mismatch on offense. Get rid of Caldie for a big rebounding son of a b.

[gangstaff]

I don't understand why Bosh would care that much about another 4 games during which we get killed by the LeBron's. That is an incredibly small fraction of his time here. I call BS. If Bosh stays it's for the (relatively) small amount of money, in which case I lose a lot of respect for him.

I'm guessing you've turned down a similar allotment of money for a better situation, which gives you the lofty perch to pass such judgement.

There's also more to a better situation. I've heard Toronto is a nice place to live, for example.

Fair enough. Then fans can't complain about him half-assing it because money is worth more than winning, and he's already getting paid. And he can't complain about his crappy team(mates) because he's getting paid and that is more important. And while I'm sure T.O. is a nice place to live, your lifestyle is going to be fantastic in any NBA city when you make that much money. Just my opinion.