GS / Philly / Portland draft day deal

[loserX]

Of course, that is purely hypothetical, isn't it? You don't actually have anything besides hope to back that up. (Which is fine; nothing wrong with hope. But let's not mistake it for fact...that is HOPE. Which not everyone has reason to share.)

No more hypothetical than any of these projected trades to the Warriors are.

Of course it is. The Warriors can win with a full lineup? What statistical evidence is that based on? Let's see some evidence.

I'm sure though that when one of these fans proposing these trades do so, they have the best of the Warriors in mind and not their own.

Absolutely, and that is true of every team. It's why I implore Warriors fans to suggest their own trades instead of just saying "no". The more input we get, the better.

[turk3d]

Of course, that is purely hypothetical, isn't it? You don't actually have anything besides hope to back that up. (Which is fine; nothing wrong with hope. But let's not mistake it for fact...that is HOPE. Which not everyone has reason to share.)

No more hypothetical than any of these projected trades to the Warriors are.

Of course it is. The Warriors can win with a full lineup? What statistical evidence is that based on? Let's see some evidence.

What is the statistical evidence that the Warriors can win with Darius Songalia?

[old rem]

Old rem is sounding like Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House whom, standing in the street amid chaos is repeating 'All is well. All is well!'.

Fact Check.

GSW has a PROBLEM....which is that at least half the rotation has been MISSING. If the Lakers had to play minus Kobe and Gasol...who do they beat? Take away the Spurs startiers at C + PF and are they gonna WIN?

All is not well....at the moment.

AT THE FRIGGIN' MOMENT....is not something we can do squat about. My interest is a year...or two..or three into the future. We are well stocked with YOUTH/Depth/Upside. I LIKE that. I can WAIT. I really have no CHOICE because there's nothing we could do now.

READ the POST. We GOT talent and depth NEXT YEAR. Right now.......GSW has to finish with 1/2 the team. I do NOT see any team in the league so stacked they win minus half the rotation. I see NO team that can plug in a lineup where 3-4 ROOKIES are playing big minutes,where the bench has 2-3 guys POSSIBLE. Dude.....LOOK at the FACTS. I'm rather THRILLED that GSW has had a year that sets new standards for BAD LUCK,but still has managed to win some and ALMOST win a lot more. The HALF-Team Warriors have been EVEN with GOOD teams for PART of many games. Think...dude.
There's CLUES there. Not having squat for depth...catches up. You might stay close awhile but your few guys wear down. Ellis is BEST when he's WAY fast/quick. Naturally...he is NOT all that if asked to play 45 min every game and attempt to carry a team forced to use a lot of walk ons. Duh? I s this too bloody complex?

NEXT YEAR......... NEXT YEAR..........

Fresh start. I may be an optimist but I do not assume GSW has somehow assembled a roster of GLASS players who have talent but are so FRAGILE they always shatter before the season is a month long. Possible...but against the odds. If HOW the coach USES players creates extra injury risk, then the problem persists even if we were to trade for whatever. Long haul....that will not be a factor.

All is well?

Uh....NOW vs later..........not the same. Must say, Animal House was one of the best comedy movies ever made...but I don't think that was K Bacon.

[loserX]

What is the statistical evidence that the Warriors can win with Darius Songalia?

I know you're upset right now, and that's why I'm going to forgive you for overlooking the paradigm-shifting talent that is Darius Songaila

[LOOSH]

Like it for every team.

[old rem]

Loser X....C'mon......

OBVIOUSLY

GSW has better odds if the first and second string guys at C + PF are AVAILABLE.

Who can replace the #1+#2 bigs with undrafted rookies who were here a week or two and still WIN?

GSW ALSO....traded off last year's top scor+Asst guy for zero. GSW has had the top 2 rebound guys MISSING,while often getting out boarded by 10-30. GSW...designed to SCORE,often has played minus 1 or 2 of their best scorers. GSW built to be DEEP, hasn't had any depth.

I can't claim GSW with ALL assets ,can win 10 straight or be a contender. SO WHAT. We are a franchise with ONE Playoff run in 20 yr. There is a lot of concerns but MORE hope here than this team has had since Rick Barry. THIS crew has growth potential that's SPECIAL. A few WEAK-ASS trades.....will not HELP. A few WEAK-ASS trades can PREVENT GSW from getting their one in 20 yrs shot at some success.

Trades are a big thing on Real GM. I've spent DECADES thinking about how GSW trades for some bloody HOPE. Right now? We GOT bloody hope. We need to NOT screw it up. GSW has done some of the WORST EVER NBA trades. We traded WILT Fuggin' CHAMBERLIAIN !!!!

We traded EVERY PLAYER who EVER was good here. In Boston the rafters are full of jerseys of lifetime Celtics. HERE? NOBODY was ever a lifetime Warrior unless you go back to the 50's and Tom Gola. (in Philadelphia). TRADES? We been a VICTIM.

GSW MUST be very very very careful about trades because GSW has made some of the ALL TIME worst trades ever. ABSURD trades and asinine drafting has meant that GSW has been BELOW average since Nixon was President. MAYBE we need to be careful? MAYBE trades that APPEAR to suck are worth avoiding?

Loser X....man...I regard you as one of THE heavyweight's at Real GM. I see how the Trade Board is about MAKING trades...but right NOW, GSW has damn few GOOD options. See anyone gonna give me a top 5 pick for Brandan Wright? Will I get a 25 ppg guy trading Monta? I keep seeing "deals" where we just DOWNGRADE.

Show me a ROBBERY where I get to grab + run,rather than be the victim. I'm all for that.

Designated victim? Sucker of the Day? No thanks.

[Coxy]

Looking back at the top teams over the past 20 years, I can only really remember 1 team that won the title with having a balanced team of "good" players, Detroit. EVRY other team has had 1 or 2 superstar type players that drive the team skyward and the rest of the roster has been filled out with guys that compliment them. Those complimentary guys are usually specialists like a 3 point shooter, a big defensive unit, a wing defender or a scoring 6th man. THIS, is the proven way to win in the NBA. I like rem's idea of having a deep team full of potential at each position but at some stage you have to make a decision on what to do with the huge stockpile of talent. I LOVE that we have an influx of talent in the team, but we're not going to win crap if we stick to our plan of potential depth, ESPECIALLY with a giimmick coach that doesn't know how to maximise that group. At some stage, you have to make a swing for the fences or your just going to keep grounding out.

I don't see "star" in Monta. I see a decent second or third option guy, or maybe even stud 6th man. Sure, he can score 25 a night, but so can Curry, so can Morrow, so can Maggette, so can guys like Tolliver, Reggie, Azubukie, Randolph and even CJ frickin Watson can score. Unless we are scoring 397 points per game, there just isn't enough game time to feed all these young dynamic scorers. We need D, PERIOD. Curry and Morrow were BORN to play together heavily in a back court. Thats the future back court for GS right there. Unless Monta accepts a 6th man role behind them, I can't see him fitting in here IF Curry is running the show. I want Monta to be used packaged together with guys like Wright, Maggs or Biedrins to get that bohemeth that stands in the middle and dominates the rim. In Randolph, we have a guy that will protect the rim and rebound in the future IF Nellie takes the collar off of him. He's not a wide body ogre though, and we need one. Now, not saying Dalembert is THAT guy, nor is Pryz, but they sure are an upgrade on what we have now, especially with Biedrins crotch failing. Even when he is healthy though, he's still undersized and a liability at times (free throws).

Cousins would help. Heres to hoping for that ping pong to drop though.

[doctor him]

I hate to beat the Monta Ellis dead horse again, but I feel I must.

Mostly, because I really think the Warrior faithful are seriously overrating him as a player. He's a scorer and...not much else. Like I said before I don't see much of the West, but my buddy whose evals I trust (mostly because he was my teammate in high school, he went onto coach for a while and we talk ball often) doesn't like Ellis even a little bit.

Add to it the fact that Curry's development as a star is tied to getting Ellis out of town and I think that shooting for the moon in any Ellis deal is missing the forest for the trees.

Finally...even remotely comparing Ellis to Wade just makes me ill. Ellis is barely playing the same sport as Wade is isn't anywhere in Wade's class.

[DusterBuster]

I hate to beat the Monta Ellis dead horse again, but I feel I must.

Mostly, because I really think the Warrior faithful are seriously overrating him as a player. He's a scorer and...not much else. Like I said before I don't see much of the West, but my buddy whose evals I trust (mostly because he was my teammate in high school, he went onto coach for a while and we talk ball often) doesn't like Ellis even a little bit.

Add to it the fact that Curry's development as a star is tied to getting Ellis out of town and I think that shooting for the moon in any Ellis deal is missing the forest for the trees.

Finally...even remotely comparing Ellis to Wade just makes me ill. Ellis is barely playing the same sport as Wade is isn't anywhere in Wade's class.

What are you talking about? Don't you know Ellis is the 2nd best player in the NBA*?




*According to Monta Ellis.

[doctor him]

I hate to beat the Monta Ellis dead horse again, but I feel I must.

Mostly, because I really think the Warrior faithful are seriously overrating him as a player. He's a scorer and...not much else. Like I said before I don't see much of the West, but my buddy whose evals I trust (mostly because he was my teammate in high school, he went onto coach for a while and we talk ball often) doesn't like Ellis even a little bit.

Add to it the fact that Curry's development as a star is tied to getting Ellis out of town and I think that shooting for the moon in any Ellis deal is missing the forest for the trees.

Finally...even remotely comparing Ellis to Wade just makes me ill. Ellis is barely playing the same sport as Wade is isn't anywhere in Wade's class.

What are you talking about? Don't you know Ellis is the 2nd best player in the NBA*?




*According to Monta Ellis.

I saw that, but I see that LeBron guy is still young. I'm guessing he's gonna improve enough to move from #3 to at least #2.

[turk3d]

Looking back at the top teams over the past 20 years, I can only really remember 1 team that won the title with having a balanced team of "good" players, Detroit. EVRY other team has had 1 or 2 superstar type players that drive the team skyward and the rest of the roster has been filled out with guys that compliment them. Those complimentary guys are usually specialists like a 3 point shooter, a big defensive unit, a wing defender or a scoring 6th man. THIS, is the proven way to win in the NBA. I like rem's idea of having a deep team full of potential at each position but at some stage you have to make a decision on what to do with the huge stockpile of talent. I LOVE that we have an influx of talent in the team, but we're not going to win crap if we stick to our plan of potential depth, ESPECIALLY with a giimmick coach that doesn't know how to maximise that group. At some stage, you have to make a swing for the fences or your just going to keep grounding out.

I don't see "star" in Monta. I see a decent second or third option guy, or maybe even stud 6th man. Sure, he can score 25 a night, but so can Curry, so can Morrow, so can Maggette, so can guys like Tolliver, Reggie, Azubukie, Randolph and even CJ frickin Watson can score. Unless we are scoring 397 points per game, there just isn't enough game time to feed all these young dynamic scorers. We need D, PERIOD. Curry and Morrow were BORN to play together heavily in a back court. Thats the future back court for GS right there. Unless Monta accepts a 6th man role behind them, I can't see him fitting in here IF Curry is running the show. I want Monta to be used packaged together with guys like Wright, Maggs or Biedrins to get that bohemeth that stands in the middle and dominates the rim. In Randolph, we have a guy that will protect the rim and rebound in the future IF Nellie takes the collar off of him. He's not a wide body ogre though, and we need one. Now, not saying Dalembert is THAT guy, nor is Pryz, but they sure are an upgrade on what we have now, especially with Biedrins crotch failing. Even when he is healthy though, he's still undersized and a liability at times (free throws).

Cousins would help. Heres to hoping for that ping pong to drop though.

The 69 and 73 Knicks were a pretty balanced team but really no team does it with just one star. You really need at least two and probably one has to be superstar. Monta imo if not already a star will be one for sure but one star without 1-2 more stars or at least one superstar is not going to get it. Even if I'm right about Monta, he's not going to get you a superstar so why trade him? Stop riding the herd (mainly Sid, the guy who swore that Randolph was going to be the next Magic) and thinking that trading Ellis is going to solve all our problems because it's not.

Unless he's bundled with some of our other best talent there's no way he's going to bring back a superstar. And let's say that were to happen, then the question will be: who's the other star (or 2 stars) that we're going to have to have in order to win a ring? It just doesn't work. This is why rem and a few others say let's take the talent pool we have, develop them and see if a few of them can become stars. In the meantime, Monta is the closest thing we have to one and therefore we shouldn't be trading him for more useless parts.

Monta >> anything we'll get @ the #7 pick and that's the problem I have with this deal. Put Monta on a good team and you'll be surprise how he'd do. Look at just two years ago when he was paired with Baron and we made a pretty decent run. He had a great season then and he's even better now. The difference now is the team and not Monta.

[Coxy]

The 69 and 73 Knicks were a pretty balanced team but really no team does it with just one star. You really need at least two and probably one has to be superstar. Monta imo if not already a star will be one for sure but one star without 1-2 more stars or at least one superstar is not going to get it. Even if I'm right about Monta, he's not going to get you a superstar so why trade him? Stop riding the herd (mainly Sid, the guy who swore that Randolph was going to be the next Magic) and thinking that trading Ellis is going to solve all our problems because it's not.

Unless he's bundled with some of our other best talent there's no way he's going to bring back a superstar. And let's say that were to happen, then the question will be: who's the other star (or 2 stars) that we're going to have to have in order to win a ring? It just doesn't work. This is why rem and a few others say let's take the talent pool we have, develop them and see if a few of them can become stars. In the meantime, Monta is the closest thing we have to one and therefore we shouldn't be trading him for more useless parts.

Monta >> anything we'll get @ the #7 pick and that's the problem I have with this deal. Put Monta on a good team and you'll be surprise how he'd do. Look at just two years ago when he was paired with Baron and we made a pretty decent run. He had a great season then and he's even better now. The difference now is the team and not Monta.

Follow the herd? Cmon turk, you know I'm not like that. I call it as I see it and if others think the same so be it.

You say that Monta >> anything we'll get with the 7 pick? Did you miss the part we're we pick up Rudy Fernandez and Samuel Dalembert as well as the 7 pick? Like I said in my post, I WANT to package Monta together with some of our other talent in Wright, Maggs, Bukie and even Biedrins to get the top guy that we need. I WANT to cash in on the massive influx of talent that we have. I dont mind giving up 2-3-4 players if we can land a real difference maker. (As long as Curry, Morrow and Randolph aren't involvedof course.) Monta HAS been good for us, but we have the talent to replace him should we move him.

[old rem]

So.....What the hell is missing? I'm seeing 2 deep at each position,at least.

The Warriors roster has loads and loads of guys who can score one on one, but not much in the way of defenders.

Gimme a guy for Maggette who is a bit younger,a bit less $,and still is a SOLID PRODUCER and I'd make the deal. GIMME a top 5 rebounder who is MOBILE, under 24,plays D as a C.....makes 60% FT...and I'd trade Biedrins. Gimme a G who scores 25 + is under 25,under $11 mill a year,can do SG and PFG and...yeah, I'll trade Monta. NOBODY is offering me ANYTHING that makes me get a basketball stiffy. I see VULTURES,trying to pick the tasty bits and leave bird poo.

Why are you only looking to trade your players for guys a lot like your players? That seems like a lateral move at best. How about trading some of your surplus offense for some defense? You don't need half a dozen guys who can score 20 a night.

My ideal is we do NOT jump at the BIG $ hyped up "NAME BRAND" guy. Instead...we go with the COST EFFECTIVE guys. We won't, long run, have a team that WINS but is all paid at MLE level.

I don't believe that a winning team with nobody paid more than the MLE has ever existed. Your dream seems quixotic.

The CURRENT talent pool is pretty much the BEST this franchise has had in DECADES in terms of a foundation to get to the top. HELL YEAH I'm not hasty to give that up. We don't GET there often.

Man, that's depressing.

I do NOT assume we can have a team with NOBODY paid over MLE. I DO think we can win distributing the payroll broadly,rather than having 2 guys eat up half the money.

Depressing? HELL YES.

GSW has been BELOW AVERAGE since the 70's.

I WANT a BAD ASS rebound guy. I BITCHED non stop for YEARS about this team's FAILURE to "get" that ya GOTTA get rebounds.

Defense? EVERYONE is for it. But....specifically....where is the ANSWER? GSW has played with D League ROOKIES having big roles because we had no better option. GSW has ONE more year of a coach who MOSTLY aims to score bulk points and hopes the D is semi-effective. Our players DO hustle,do try. The TACTICS ought to help,but the tactics employed are NOT that good. GSW...way back when there WAS a full team, had some gimmick semi-zone that just SUCKED. The Tactics now, are BETTER, but half the talent is INJURED...missing...not there. What the plan is NOW? Good luck.
Even the IDEAL plan is limited if half the talent is not available.

Whatever. The game is on. We're up 11 vs the Wolves on their floor. TYPICALLY...we have half of our team vs their whole squad. We have a lineup of rookies and second year players...and our 21 pt lead shrunk....but we are gonna win a road game anyhow. What's it say? Well....at the moment we have ONE drafted player in the game. Everyone playing at the moment adds up to half what they pay Eddy Curry. I LIKE it.

[old rem]

Sam D is an EXPENDABLE Sixer. He will be gone in a bit more than a year. Rudy is just one more G who,last I looked,is NOT better than Reggie Williams and Anthony Morrow...and is thinking of a return to Euro-ball.

#7...or whatever...which guy at #7 steps in and scores 25 for us? 20? 15? We've talked about what guy...top 5..we like with OUR pick. Mostly....if we pick #3 or 4...we do not get an instant starter. At 7 or whatever...we get a bit less. Rudy + Dalembert are not enough impact to change the W's. #7 is not. Losing ANOTHER of our productive scorers...that WILL have an impact,negatively. The "deal" isn't HORRID.....but it is NOT good enough.

[Relentless88]

I hate to beat the Monta Ellis dead horse again, but I feel I must.

Mostly, because I really think the Warrior faithful are seriously overrating him as a player. He's a scorer and...not much else. Like I said before I don't see much of the West, but my buddy whose evals I trust (mostly because he was my teammate in high school, he went onto coach for a while and we talk ball often) doesn't like Ellis even a little bit.

Add to it the fact that Curry's development as a star is tied to getting Ellis out of town and I think that shooting for the moon in any Ellis deal is missing the forest for the trees.

Finally...even remotely comparing Ellis to Wade just makes me ill. Ellis is barely playing the same sport as Wade is isn't anywhere in Wade's class.

What are you talking about? Don't you know Ellis is the 2nd best player in the NBA*?




*According to Monta Ellis.

I saw that, but I see that LeBron guy is still young. I'm guessing he's gonna improve enough to move from #3 to at least #2.

By then Ellis will be #0.

[Coxy]

Sam D is an EXPENDABLE Sixer. He will be gone in a bit more than a year. Rudy is just one more G who,last I looked,is NOT better than Reggie Williams and Anthony Morrow...and is thinking of a return to Euro-ball.

#7...or whatever...which guy at #7 steps in and scores 25 for us? 20? 15? We've talked about what guy...top 5..we like with OUR pick. Mostly....if we pick #3 or 4...we do not get an instant starter. At 7 or whatever...we get a bit less. Rudy + Dalembert are not enough impact to change the W's. #7 is not. Losing ANOTHER of our productive scorers...that WILL have an impact,negatively. The "deal" isn't HORRID.....but it is NOT good enough.

How bout, shock horror, we get a guy at 7 that can DEFEND and REBOUND. Why do we need to get a guy at 7 that can score 25, 20 or 15?

[old rem]

I hate to beat the Monta Ellis dead horse again, but I feel I must.

Mostly, because I really think the Warrior faithful are seriously overrating him as a player. He's a scorer and...not much else. Like I said before I don't see much of the West, but my buddy whose evals I trust (mostly because he was my teammate in high school, he went onto coach for a while and we talk ball often) doesn't like Ellis even a little bit.

Add to it the fact that Curry's development as a star is tied to getting Ellis out of town and I think that shooting for the moon in any Ellis deal is missing the forest for the trees.

Finally...even remotely comparing Ellis to Wade just makes me ill. Ellis is barely playing the same sport as Wade is isn't anywhere in Wade's class.

Someone has to explain HOW 2 guys who do the same job with about the same numbers are not in the same class. What invisible power does D Wade possess? Does he make Lasagna at halftime? Does he make the blind see? Are his extra 0.8 points that crucial? Last I saw, Miami is not a steamroller in the weak EAST. Wade is doing a LITTLE more than Ellis. He's also several years older and a lot more $.

Why not "like Ellis even a little bit" does your buddy KNOW the man? Does he not think a guy scores 30 or dishes 8 asst or gets 3-5 steals is good basketball stuff? Whatever. I don't wanna trade my guy. I LIKE Curry but Curry doing well does not say we need to dump anyone.
What is it we are supposed to be AFTER? Huh? Do not say Sammy Dalembert. Tolliver had 34 pt and 8 boards today. Nice game for a rookie PF. Maybe we don't need to spend $20 mill for a PF who sometimes is able to do that.

Get used to it. Ellis evidently IS in Wade's class. You can bitch and moan but the COLD HARD truth is that shooting guards are paid for SHOOTING. There is no way round it. The numbers are historic FACTS. Deny the facts if you must...not my problem. The TRUE FACT is that any SG who scores 25+ is getting compared to Wade...and earned that.

[Coxy]

Wade is in a different class to Ellis. I'd take 1 Wade over 5 Monta's.

Moot point though.

[old rem]

Sam D is an EXPENDABLE Sixer. He will be gone in a bit more than a year. Rudy is just one more G who,last I looked,is NOT better than Reggie Williams and Anthony Morrow...and is thinking of a return to Euro-ball.

#7...or whatever...which guy at #7 steps in and scores 25 for us? 20? 15? We've talked about what guy...top 5..we like with OUR pick. Mostly....if we pick #3 or 4...we do not get an instant starter. At 7 or whatever...we get a bit less. Rudy + Dalembert are not enough impact to change the W's. #7 is not. Losing ANOTHER of our productive scorers...that WILL have an impact,negatively. The "deal" isn't HORRID.....but it is NOT good enough.

How bout, shock horror, we get a guy at 7 that can DEFEND and REBOUND. Why do we need to get a guy at 7 that can score 25, 20 or 15?

WHO?

Pat O'Bryant could defend and rebound IN COLLEGE. Ya gets no guarantee ANYONE is all that in the NBA. Are you talking Wes Johnson? At 6-6 195,is he even > the wings we HAVE...and we have a LOT.

Odds are....#7 is a pick too late. Odds are at #7 we'd lean toward C Aldrich,or we"d trade down.
Wes Johnson appeals more to teams that do not already have 4-5 productive wings. His 16 ppg,does not blow my mind,but some folks are sold on that.

To me... Monta Ellis scores 25 or 35...probably that is a PLUS. Rookie X MIGHT some day be in the lineup? Cool....but I'm not THAT into two steps back and one step forward. MY DECADES as a GSW fan tell me that "lets hope we get lucky" is NOT the way to go.

Based on about 50+ years watching the NBA...I say that this team needs to ADD,but must be reluctant to delete. GSW's history of DUMPING the BEST players...has FAILED. STOP DOING IT.
You cull the herd from the BOTTOM, not the top. Is that radical?

So....if anyone has a trade for Radmanovich....I'm willing to listen.

[old rem]

Wade is in a different class to Ellis. I'd take 1 Wade over 5 Monta's.

Moot point though.

Wade will be paid something around $20 mill per on his next deal. He IS a LITTLE BIT BETTER than Monta. At this point. Ellis is FASTER. Wade is larger. Both can get 30-35 pt. Both AVERAGE about the same right NOW. I HEAR the stuff about how NO GSW player MATTERS and it's all HOPELESS. Nobody we have MATTERS whether they score 10 per or 35 per. WE SUCK. YO MAMA sucks....case closed.

I ain't gonna be the weak link on the trade board. That job is covered.

Ellis's REAL output is what it is. He's in the ELITE few. HOW MANY NBAS players are scoring 25+ ? Huh?
How many CAN do 30 pt with 8 asst? Huh? You think that **** is COMMON ? It ain't.