Rios: Basball is dead in Toronto - Basketball next?

[Spiritnova]

It probably is and I don't blame the fans.

People here are crying about how hockey is killing the other sports but can you really blame the fans for wanting a quality product?

The Toronto maple leafs organization is one of the most storied franchises in the NHL with only the Habs having won more cups than them.

The Raptors have constantly been underperforming and the Blue Jays just traded away their best player. Did anyone really expect these two teams to lead the league in attendance?

[Spiritnova]

Baseball and football is dying in Toronto while hockey is on its last leg in Toronto. Basketball and soccer is taking over Toronto/GTA thanks to immigrants and growing visible minority population.

Hockey is dying? The Raptors are a lousy team and are beat out at times by curling.

One of the unshakeable tenets of faith in the sports business is that a team’s performance is usually reflected in its television ratings.

Winners draw big audiences, losers not so much.

But when it comes to the Toronto Maple Leafs, you can pretty much throw that old belief out the window.

Despite a horrific start that all but doomed Toronto’s favourite losers to yet another season out of the playoffs right out of the gate, the team was a big winner on television.

“In every other case, a bad team kills ratings,” says TSN president Phil King. “Not with the Leafs.”

Its regional ratings on Rogers Sportsnet Ontario rose to an average of 656,400 per game, a 106 per cent increase over last year. Only the Ottawa Senators’ 111 per cent increase was better, though the Sens’ improvement at least provided some logic for its 153,000 average.

Hockey Night in Canada’s early game, which usually put the Leafs in the national spotlight, averaged a record 1.8 million viewers — a 45.9 per cent increase over last season.

Over on TSN, NHL audiences for games involving Canadian-based teams averaged 714,000, a 66.4 per cent increase over last season.

The main reason for that increase?

You guessed it: the Blue, White and Lousy. Their 17 games on TSN topped all with a 1 million average.

The new ratings system is producing bigger audiences all around, but generally they’re in the neighbourhood of 20 per cent.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nh ... television

The Leafs are going to be dominant for a long long time.

The Leafs may be bad but at least they are rebuilding the right way... Starting on the DEFENSIVE END

Raptors arent going to win as long as Bargnani and Calderon are in the starting line up. Believe that

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Does he know the team has sucked for the last 20 years?

[ponder276]

Baseball is just super boring, and Toronto fans are smart enough to realize this. On the other hand, basketball is awesome, and as long as we have a half decent team, there will be good support. The Leafs are by far the most profitable NHL team, the Raps do very well, Toronto FC do very well, Toronto is a great city for most sports, just not that great for a cr*p baseball team.

[Carlos Rogers]

Maybe because Im a baseball fan and grew up playing and loving the game but I don't
find it boring to watch at all. I love all the strategies thats implemented and the
designs of the ball parks.

To me Soccer is one of the most boring games to watch... I've never watched more then
2 minutes of a TFC game. Soccer is to simplistic for me... Kind of like Tennis fun to play
but its like watching paint dry on TV.

[OAKLEY_2]

Rios and Guillen are disconnected from reality. Skydome/Rogers Centre was obsolete for baseball the day it opened in 1989. The whole level 500 is wasted space. Then you have the endless I never did Roids scandals and the worst patsy commissioner outside of Gary Bettman. Actually he makes Bettman look very good. What about the parity issue where the Yankees and Red Sox live in a league unto themselves in terms of unlimited spending. It is a great league, the league of 2 but what of the other teams? If baseball went back to 20,000 to 30,000 seat venues and players salaries went back to the hundreds of thousands instead of the unsustainable bursting bubble that exists now then viability would return and you begin to talk about the competitive and fiscal health of many teams not just Toronto. What has gone way up is now coming back down to earth. Baseball is also a traditionalist sport. People who are fans like it to stay the same year after year until eventually it looks like a visiting circus from the 19th century. That is both a blessing and a curse. The Blue Jays hurt because baseball as a sport is ill and the league has no vision. Cleveland has had ups and downs and if it can survive then the Jays surely can in some form. As for Hockey, hockey, hockey? I think it is insulting to Canadian sports fans to say such garbage. What about Tony Hawk and Shawn White? Not everybody eats breakfast at Dennys.

[Funky D]

Most people fail to point the real reason why nobody cares. The Jays were a fad in Toronto for 15 years. They were the new team in town......then the dome came and there was the novelty factor.

Then they won back-2-back World Series championships. Now what? We've won. Too much, too soon.

[Snowcrash]

One of the highlights of my weekly sports television when I was a kid was watching the Expos on CBC. That along with the CFL, was the only sports available on summer television. Now, as I indicated in a previous post, I can't watch baseball anymore because the pace is just too slow.

It drives me crazy when the manager or pitching coach has to go to the mound. Why do we need this in a game? You want to take the pitcher out in the middle of an inning, what's wrong with just calling from the dugout? Batters stepping out of the box, pitchers stepping off the rubber, throwing over to first base, all these things just kills the flow of the game for me.

If I'm thinking this, what about the video generation like my son and his friends who are practically borderline ADD? I can see why they're turning away from the game in droves.

[J-Roc]

Rios is correct. Not that the game can't be saved.....but it's dying a slow death.

[Fairview4Life]

Rios is not right, and these arguments have already been torn apart on the Jays board in convincing fashion. More convincing then when we try and rationalize curling ratings compared to the Raps, for example.

[J Dilla]

The Leafs may be bad but at least they are rebuilding the right way... Starting on the DEFENSIVE END

In the new NHL, you need more offense than defense. That's why they had that lockout.

Their defense is garbage, Phanuef is trash, and no one really gives me hope other than Phil Kessel.

[Avenger]

I always laugh when Basketball fans call Baseball or Hockey dying sports. Basketball's ratings and attendance have either stalled or gone backwards compared to Baseball and Hockey. The MLB is league that has been least impacted by the economy, they're attendance has barely dropped at all compared to the other three leagues. For the first time ever the NHL is about to make a lot of money from their National TV contracts with NBC, their ratings have improved every year since the lockout and some of you geniuses thought that the lockout was gonna destroy the NHL.

[Funky D]

I always laugh when Basketball fans call Baseball or Hockey dying sports. Basketball's ratings and attendance have either stalled or gone backwards compared to Baseball and Hockey. The MLB is league that has been least impacted by the economy, they're attendance has barely dropped at all compared to the other three leagues. For the first time ever the NHL is about to make a lot of money from their National TV contracts with NBC, their ratings have improved every year since the lockout and some of you geniuses thought that the lockout was gonna destroy the NHL.

Most of what you say is correct or at least in the ballpark (pardon the pun) of correctness. The NHL ratings are beyond terrible, though. Don't believe the BS the NHL spews out about TV ratings. The facts are this....the Winter Classic had low ratings so that fad is over. The Olympic gold medal game drew monster huge ratings....that led to a zero percent increase in NHL ratings. The NBC TV deal pays them little to nothing and they're not going to be on ESPN anytime soon. They're not dying.....not by a long shot....but they're not doing well.

Regarding NBA ratings and the baseball situation. NBA ratings are up in the US and last year they had the highest ratings in years for the playoffs. Baseball does well in the US. The Raptors have wretched bad ratings.......it'll have a tiny following forever (face it Raptors fans). They'll always have their core of 100,000 people and that is it. If they do well, the casual fan will watch. But they'll never ever ever ever draw 1 million people. The Jays still have a fan base even if Torontonians couldn't care less to attend....Canada likes baseball more than they ever will love basketball.

[ghuytro]

Most people fail to point the real reason why nobody cares. The Jays were a fad in Toronto for 15 years. They were the new team in town......then the dome came and there was the novelty factor.

Then they won back-2-back World Series championships. Now what? We've won. Too much, too soon.

For me it's the Yankees and the Red Sox - especially the Yankees. I know we have no chance because we just can't outspend them. It's a fait accompli that we have no chance year after year after year.

I'd welcome a move to the central division if we could swing it. Put Detroit or Cleveland in the East and stick us in the central division.

[r_gill]

No team in any sport can sustain good attendance when they have been out of the playoffs for 17 years. It isn't because the stadium sucks, it isn't because baseball is not popular with minorities, it isn't even because of hockey. Cowley is a total idiot. In the 90s when White Sox sucked they had terrible attendance at their games, in the early 2000s before they won the World Series they use to put up the same numbers that Blue Jays averaged in 06-09. It wasn't until after they won that they got 30k to come out every night. Baltimore has been out of the playoffs for 10 years now, there attendance has been dropping steadily every year. KC has been out longer then us and there attendance has been terrible for the past decade. Pittsburgh has the same problem. The Tigers a storied franchise had terrible attendance in the 90s and terrible to decent attendance prior to them making it to the World Series in 06. After that they had no problem getting 30K back. Philadelphia another apparent baseball market, in the early 2000s they drew terribly as well and they finally made it to the playoffs in 07 and won a World Series in 08 and there attendance also has rebounded. The point I am making is winning matters.

You guys can say why does everyone still support the Leafs but the Leafs have only been out of the playoffs for 5 seasons and that is the longest streak in there existence, prior to that they had only ever been out of the playoffs for 3 straight years. Can you imagine if they were out of the playoffs for 17 years, they would take a hit as well.

In the end of the day though attendance is only one avenue that teams make money in. The Jays pull around 300 000 in tv ratings, get revenue sharing, and get a cut out of the national MLB tv deal. I mean don't the Raptors average like a third of those tv rating.

[Funky D]

No team in any sport can sustain good attendance when they have been out of the playoffs for 17 years. It isn't because the stadium sucks, it isn't because baseball is not popular with minorities, it isn't even because of hockey. Cowley is a total idiot. In the 90s when White Sox sucked they had terrible attendance at their games, in the early 2000s before they won the World Series they use to put up the same numbers that Blue Jays averaged in 06-09. It wasn't until after they won that they got 30k to come out every night. Baltimore has been out of the playoffs for 10 years now, there attendance has been dropping steadily every year. KC has been out longer then us and there attendance has been terrible for the past decade. Pittsburgh has the same problem. The Tigers a storied franchise had terrible attendance in the 90s and terrible to decent attendance prior to them making it to the World Series in 06. After that they had no problem getting 30K back. Philadelphia another apparent baseball market, in the early 2000s they drew terribly as well and they finally made it to the playoffs in 07 and won a World Series in 08 and there attendance also has rebounded. The point I am making is winning matters.

You guys can say why does everyone still support the Leafs but the Leafs have only been out of the playoffs for 5 seasons and that is the longest streak in there existence, prior to that they had only ever been out of the playoffs for 3 straight years. Can you imagine if they were out of the playoffs for 17 years, they would take a hit as well.

The problem with baseball is that 9 out of 10 times, you really have to spend the cash to be competitive. With that said - the Jays are owned by Rogers. They have money to spend.

[ItsDanger]

No team in any sport can sustain good attendance when they have been out of the playoffs for 17 years. It isn't because the stadium sucks, it isn't because baseball is not popular with minorities, it isn't even because of hockey. Cowley is a total idiot. In the 90s when White Sox sucked they had terrible attendance at their games, in the early 2000s before they won the World Series they use to put up the same numbers that Blue Jays averaged in 06-09. It wasn't until after they won that they got 30k to come out every night. Baltimore has been out of the playoffs for 10 years now, there attendance has been dropping steadily every year. KC has been out longer then us and there attendance has been terrible for the past decade. Pittsburgh has the same problem. The Tigers a storied franchise had terrible attendance in the 90s and terrible to decent attendance prior to them making it to the World Series in 06. After that they had no problem getting 30K back. Philadelphia another apparent baseball market, in the early 2000s they drew terribly as well and they finally made it to the playoffs in 07 and won a World Series in 08 and there attendance also has rebounded. The point I am making is winning matters.

You guys can say why does everyone still support the Leafs but the Leafs have only been out of the playoffs for 5 seasons and that is the longest streak in there existence, prior to that they had only ever been out of the playoffs for 3 straight years. Can you imagine if they were out of the playoffs for 17 years, they would take a hit as well.

In the end of the day though attendance is only one avenue that teams make money in. The Jays pull around 300 000 in tv ratings, get revenue sharing, and get a cut out of the national MLB tv deal. I mean don't the Raptors average like a third of those tv rating.

Totally agree. But in least in hockey, a lot of the teams are quite close to making the playoffs, especially this past season, ie. parity. In baseball, its over in early May.