SoTD: Bargnani's defensive breakdown (updated)

[Eating a Book]

I'd love to chime in but I'm in Europe for the summer and I won't be using internet cafe's because they ask you for a passport and its a big hassle............

As was previously shown (patterns of patterns of patterns) the poster who thought you did not need a passport to use an internet cafe in Italy was wrong.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1004/p07s01-woeu.html

Currently, I am in Germany, staying with a friend, and have more time on my hands than anticipated due to the volcano situation. Hence, more ability to chime in. In a couple days, though, I'm on my way to Belgium and, happily for you and some others, will be much less able/likely to post here for a while...although not due to passport issues,I'm glad to say.

For some reason, now, I want to get back into Don DeLillo and 70s/80s literature. Patterns of patterns of patterns.

[Lionel Messi]

Late to the mix but damn is this ever cool. The Synergy stuff that is. The rest of the discussion I think I've seen before...

Great, now we can finally put to rest all this "OMGZ SIGN DARKO" nonsense.

And start up the "Bring Joel Home!" brigade?

No.

But at least this refutes that Haywood is a bad defender. Dagger kept saying that mavs fans were complaining about his D, but whenever I watched him play his defence was pretty awesome.

I'd really only want Haywood with Bosh though, because he's 31. Pairing him with Bargs will do no good because we'd be pretty much in rebuilding mode, and there's no use paying Haywood the money he'll be looking for when you're rebuilding.

[elmer_yuck]

If instead of a project center with a 5 year plan, we had an actual center who could rebound and play defense, we'd have a better team and Bosh would probably stay.
It's that simple.
If Bosh leaves, that means the Bargnani experiment failed. Most of of were pretty sure it would fail from day one.
You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

[kyphi]

If instead of a project center with a 5 year plan, we had an actual center who could rebound and play defense, we'd have a better team and Bosh would probably stay.
It's that simple.
If Bosh leaves, that means the Bargnani experiment failed. Most of of were pretty sure it would fail from day one.
You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

this

[BigApple]

If instead of a project center with a 5 year plan, we had an actual center who could rebound and play defense, we'd have a better team and Bosh would probably stay.
It's that simple.
If Bosh leaves, that means the Bargnani experiment failed. Most of of were pretty sure it would fail from day one.
You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

Chris Bosh is still developing today after seven years. You never stop developing and getting better. Its not like Bargnani not producing anything and is still at the level he was when we drafted him. He has developed and he continues to develop as all players do.

[Kurtz]

You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

Ehem...Chauncey, Billups.

[anj]

But at least this refutes that Haywood is a bad defender. Dagger kept saying that mavs fans were complaining about his D, but whenever I watched him play his defence was pretty awesome.

To be fair to Dagger, I remember him saying that Wiz fans were complaining about Haywood's D early on (they called him "Brenda") and that "it took him a while to get it". He did concede that he's made progress.

[Eating a Book]

If instead of a project center with a 5 year plan, we had an actual center who could rebound and play defense, we'd have a better team and Bosh would probably stay.
It's that simple.
If Bosh leaves, that means the Bargnani experiment failed. Most of of were pretty sure it would fail from day one.
You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

Chris Bosh is still developing today after seven years. You never stop developing and getting better. Its not like Bargnani not producing anything and is still at the level he was when we drafted him. He has developed and he continues to develop as all players do.

He just hasn't developed into the type of player this team, as presently constructed, needs. And he never will, because that's not the type of player he is. It's frustrating that some people here are still smacking away, trying to ram that square peg into the round hole. It isn't happening. It didn't work when you were three, and it won't work now, even if the context is a little more abstract.

[Lionel Messi]

But at least this refutes that Haywood is a bad defender. Dagger kept saying that mavs fans were complaining about his D, but whenever I watched him play his defence was pretty awesome.

To be fair to Dagger, I remember him saying that Wiz fans were complaining about Haywood's D early on (they called him "Brenda") and that "it took him a while to get it". He did concede that he's made progress.

I know about the whole "Brenda" thing and his early career. I'm talking about a month ago when I proposed Haywood would be a good fit as a "banger/defender" (although he shoots too much, despite having as much touch as Reggie) and Dagger said that Mavs fans are complaining about his D.

It's weird, because whenever I watch him his D is just fine.

[BigApple]

But at least this refutes that Haywood is a bad defender. Dagger kept saying that mavs fans were complaining about his D, but whenever I watched him play his defence was pretty awesome.

It only refutes it if you think its 100% factual evidence but like most stats its not. I don't think Haywood is a bad defender but he certainly isn't a player that you could put in place of Bargnani with this same roster and expect miracles to happen. Wizards fans had issues with him and the Mavs have had some issues as well, I like him as a backup guy but not much more and apperently the Mavs do as well.

[Schad]

You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

Ehem...Chauncey, Billups.

Billups is the exception, not the rule...people remember that he blossomed so late precisely because it was so unusual that he blossomed so late.

[Kurtz]

You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

Ehem...Chauncey, Billups.

Billups is the exception, not the rule...people remember that he blossomed so late precisely because it was so unusual that he blossomed so late.

Unusual, but does happen, thus the idea isn't so absurd, right? If any of Chauncey's previous teams stuck with him, accepting that any growing pains could be worth the potential, they'd have a low-maintenance superstar PG right now.

[Eating a Book]

Also, Billups was traded a few times before it happened. So no one really waited...

[hkr]

...
Billups is the exception, not the rule...people remember that he blossomed so late precisely because it was so unusual that he blossomed so late.

Not to mention that Billups showed a very nice improvement in his low profile years with the Timberwolves. Chauncey was already solid when he finished his first year in Minny and by the end of his 2nd year with the team his numbers looked fairly similar to his later numbers with Detroit.

[elmer_yuck]

You don't wait 5 years for a player to develop in the NBA. The idea is ridiculous.

Ehem...Chauncey, Billups.

Chauncey was the big exception, but teams didn't wait for Chauncey to develop.
The Pistons were his 5th team if I'm not mistaken.

[elmer_yuck]

And no team ended up losing their best player waiting for Chauncey to develop.

[hkr]

...
Chauncey was the big exception, but teams didn't wait for Chauncey to develop.
The Pistons were his 5th team if I'm not mistaken.

I was very surprised when Minn let him go and decided not to match the offer as Billups was coming off a very very good season. I remember many calling Billups one of bargains in that freeagent season.

[Kurtz]

Merely pointing out that some players, who are brimming with potential early, do take a while to emerge as stars/difference makers.

Billups is one such guy. There's also Bogut, who only emerged as a star this, his 5th year. Kaman also emerged in his 5th year. Jeremaine O'Neil in his 6th. Blatche looks to be emerging now, heading into his 6th year.

It's not without precident for a talented player, a big especially, to break out during his 5th year.

[kyphi]

one more year, huh. You do know JO was riding the pine for most of those years, right?

[RapsFanInVA]

Merely pointing out that some players, who are brimming with potential early, do take a while to emerge as stars/difference makers.

Billups is one such guy. There's also Bogut, who only emerged as a star this, his 5th year. Kaman also emerged in his 5th year. Jeremaine O'Neil in his 6th. Blatche looks to be emerging now, heading into his 6th year.

It's not without precident for a talented player, a big especially, to break out during his 5th year.

So this will finally be the deciding year for Bargs? It'll all become worth it! The light at the end of the tunnel!