The Coaching Thread/SF76 Update: Page 54

sweetlou23 · Post #41 » by **sweetlou23** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:23 pm

I like van gundy and Avery johnson, but I cant figure out why people are so high on doug collins. WHy would you choose collins over van gundy or Avery?

bebopdeluxe · Post #42 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:46 pm

Collins - like Lary Brown - has a track record of taking underachieving teams and making them better. His teams almost always show DRAMATIC improvement in terms of team defense. He has had tremendous success with althletic, versatile swingmen like Iggy (Grant Hill thrived when Collins was coaching in Detroit). He preaches fundamentals, and would not tolerate teams' not running their offense with precision...I remember one game in particular late in the season where the game was close...Iguodala and Brand tried to run a two-man game in the high post and it was PATHETIC...horrible spacing, lousy entry pass...it was very clear that they simply had not worked on that play at all. That would not fly with Collins.

For me, I think you would get a lot of the defensive focus that you would get with LB or JVG...and Collins' track record with working with young teams would play well here. Critics of Collins do not like his offensive pace - he tends to run a very deliberate offense - but it's not like JVG or LB would be running any whiz-bang offense, either.

To be fair, I would take any of those three guys (LB, JVG or Collins). All three stress defense. All three will mandate responsibility and accountability on the floor. And all three have had success improving underachieving teams - something that guys like Avery Johnson cannot say.

pointguard86 · Post #43 » by **pointguard86** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:37 pm

I wouldn't mind any of those 3 names mentioned as our new head coach. One more name I want to throw it out there is Mike Fratello. All four of these guys stress D and runs a deliberate offense. However Mike's offense more deliberate than the other 3 mentioned.

ankle420breaker · Post #44 » by **ankle420breaker** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:30 am

Not a big fan of Fratello. He's up there in age and his last stint in the league wasn't a success. Not really related to coaching, but just hearing him analyze games and players on NBA TV this past year he seemed noticeably out of touch. I really can't see him being a guy that demands attention and respect... we all saw how well that worked this year. I'd prefer plenty of other candidates (LB, Collins, Johnson, JVG) over Fratello.

One guy that I've always had a lot of respect for is Hubie Brown. Tremendous understanding of the game with a natural ability to teach. He capped off his coaching career as the 03-04 Coach of the Year, leading a young and mediocre Memphis team to 50 wins (after winning just 28 games the year before with practically the same lineup). Unfortunately, he's a fossil (76) and won't return to coaching. Too bad... despite his age, I honestly think he'd be able to help this team.

pointguard86 · Post #45 » by **pointguard86** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:52 am

ankle,

definitely agree with you on hubie. that guy's a bball genius. whenever he's doing the games, i always listen to him. he basically explains why things are being in a certain way. compared to let's far cry from mark jackson's irritating game disection.

bballin76 · Post #46 » by **bballin76** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:09 am

bebopdeluxe wrote:Collins - like Lary Brown - has a track record of taking underachieving teams and making them better. His teams almost always show DRAMATIC improvement in terms of team defense. He has had tremendous success with althletic, versatile swingmen like Iggy (Grant Hill thrived when Collins was coaching in Detroit). He preaches fundamentals, and would not tolerate teams' not running their offense with precision...I remember one game in particular late in the season where the game was close...Iguodala and Brand tried to run a two-man game in the high post and it was PATHETIC...horrible spacing, lousy entry pass...it was very clear that they simply had not worked on that play at all. That would not fly with Collins.

For me, I think you would get a lot of the defensive focus that you would get with LB or JVG...and Collins' track record with working with young teams would play well here. Critics of Collins do not like his offensive pace - he tends to run a very deliberate offense - but it's not like JVG or LB would be running any whiz-bang offense, either.

To be fair, I would take any of those three guys (LB, JVG or Collins). All three stress defense. All three will mandate responsibility and accountability on the floor. And all three have had success improving underachieving teams - something that guys like Avery Johnson cannot say.

BINGO.

Any of those three and I'm happy.

sweetlou23 · Post #47 » by **sweetlou23** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:31 pm

bebopdeluxe wrote:Collins - like Lary Brown - has a track record of taking underachieving teams and making them better. His teams almost always show DRAMATIC improvement in terms of team defense. He has had tremendous success with althletic, versatile swingmen like Iggy (Grant Hill thrived when Collins was coaching in Detroit). He preaches fundamentals, and would not tolerate teams' not running their offense with precision...I remember one game in particular late in the season where the game was close...Iguodala and Brand tried to run a two-man game in the high post and it was PATHETIC...horrible spacing, lousy entry pass...it was very clear that they simply had not worked on that play at all. That would not fly with Collins.

For me, I think you would get a lot of the defensive focus that you would get with LB or JVG...and Collins' track record with working with young teams would play well here. Critics of Collins do not like his offensive pace - he tends to run a very deliberate offense - but it's not like JVG or LB would be running any whiz-bang offense, either.

To be fair, I would take any of those three guys (LB, JVG or Collins). All three stress defense. All three will mandate responsibility and accountability on the floor. And all three have had success improving underachieving teams - something that guys like Avery Johnson cannot say.

collins hasn't won a playoff series since 1990. I really can't speak on his coaching style because i frankly don't remember how he coached. But but based on the results, I don't see him as a good choice. He got bounced out of the playoffs in the first round when he coached the pistons. he never made it when he coached the wizards. you have to go all the way back to the bulls in 89/90 to find any playoff success with collins.

bebopdeluxe · Post #48 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:00 pm

You mean like how Avery Johnson got bounced out of the 1st round with a CLEARLY superior team in Dallas? The season after his team gagged BIG-TIME in the Finals?

Right now, I simply want a coach who has a proven track record of stressing fundamentals and improving team defense...a guy who has taken underachieving teams and gotten them to play to their potential. Whether it is LB, JVG or Collins, each of them has done that in their career...and I would be fine if any of the three of them were brought in. I would also be fine with somebody like Laimbeer...but what I do NOT want is either another Nets retread or a guy - Avery Johnson - who was handed a top-5 team on a silver platter and both underachieved and wore out his welcome in record time.

PhilasFinest · Post #49 » by **PhilasFinest** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Couldnt agree more with the above

sweetlou23 · Post #50 » by **sweetlou23** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:42 pm

bebopdeluxe wrote:You mean like how Avery Johnson got bounced out of the 1st round with a CLEARLY superior team in Dallas? The season after his team gagged BIG-TIME in the Finals?

Right now, I simply want a coach who has a proven track record of stressing fundamentals and improving team defense...a guy who has taken underachieving teams and gotten them to play to their potential. Whether it is LB, JVG or Collins, each of them has done that in their career...and I would be fine if any of the three of them were brought in. I would also be fine with somebody like Laimbeer...but what I do NOT want is either another Nets retread or a guy - Avery Johnson - who was handed a top-5 team on a silver platter and both underachieved and wore out his welcome in record time.

Its debatable whether Avery Johnson underachieved. Collins just seems to me to be stale and irrelevant at this point. It seems like hiring him would be a step backwards. His teams have simply never had any lasting success. He had Jordan and grant hill and accomplished nothing. Anyway why all of the hate on Avery? you act like he stole your puppy or something.

Anyway the post is about Collins, who does not have a proven track record of winning.
he seems to be a weak choice and not as good as Brown or Van gundy.

Post #51 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:58 pm

sweetlou23 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:You mean like how Avery Johnson got bounced out of the 1st round with a CLEARLY superior team in Dallas? The season after his team gagged BIG-TIME in the Finals?

Right now, I simply want a coach who has a proven track record of stressing fundamentals and improving team defense...a guy who has taken underachieving teams and gotten them to play to their potential. Whether it is LB, JVG or Collins, each of them has done that in their career...and I would be fine if any of the three of them were brought in. I would also be fine with somebody like Laimbeer...but what I do NOT want is either another Nets retread or a guy - Avery Johnson - who was handed a top-5 team on a silver platter and both underachieved and wore out his welcome in record time.

Its debatable whether Avery Johnson underachieved. Collins just seems to me to be stale and irrelevant at this point. It seems like hiring him would be a step backwards. His teams have simply never has lasting success. He had Jordan and grant hill and accomplished nothing. Anyway why all of the hate on Avery? you act like he stole your puppy or something.

Anyway the post is about Collins, who does not have a proven track record of winning.
he seems to be a weak choice and not as good as Brown or Van gundy.

So, that leaves us with JVG and Brown, and I assume Brown will want the GM power if not title, so that would rule him out as well imo.

Any good info on the assistants Thib and Casey, I don't honestly feel like I would know what I was getting with either. Then again, that may be true regardless of what you know about them as assistants.

steveb21 · Post #52 » by **steveb21** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:27 pm

I dunno but I have a strong feeling it's going to be LB. Snyder is very comfortable with him and Stefanski gets a chance to save face with a real HC. Doug Collins would be the logical choice to succeed LB in Charlote given his relationship with Jordan.

It's almost as if the stars are lining up. Now all we need is to do well in the lottery...

bebopdeluxe · Post #53 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:15 pm

sweetlou:

I don't hate Avery Johnson - he's simply achieved less as a head coach than LB, JVG or Collins...FAR less, actually...but he wants to be viewed in the same breath as those guys (and he wants to be PAID like them too...and he really doesn't want to be bothered with, you know, an INTERVIEW process...and the guy took a 60+ win team and lost in the first round...and so on and so on...).

I guess I would turn it back to you - what has Avery Johnson done in his coaching career that suggests that he can take a 27-win team that played like absolute GARBAGE and turn them into a 50-win team? Collins has done it twice. LB does it in his sleep. Hubie Brown did it at age 70 in Memphis. I want my team to play DEFENSE. Be accountable. Be well schooled in the fundamentals. All three of these guys has DONE IT...and that is why I am open to one of them - although, as I have said, I would be fine with a guy like Laimbeer as well.

Kobblehead · Post #54 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:38 pm

The big picture looks bright regardless of which of these 3 we hire. I'm excited.

sec-106 · Post #55 » by **sec-106** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:54 pm

For what it's worth, 3 guys who did fantastic jobs this year:

Scott Brooks
Scott Skiles
Lionel Hollins

All former Sixer guards.

Sixersftw · Post #56 » by **Sixersftw** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:00 pm

So you're saying there is a chance Willie Green will be roaming the sidelines in 2010?
sign
me
up

bebopdeluxe · Post #57 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:59 pm

sec-106:

I am ALL OVER continuing the trend with ESnow with the Sixers....

;-)

sec-106 · Post #58 » by **sec-106** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:52 pm

Sixersftw wrote:So you're saying there is a chance Willie Green will be roaming the sidelines in 2010?
sign
me
up

Maybe 2020.

ankle420breaker · Post #59 » by **ankle420breaker** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:15 am

sec-106 wrote:
Sixersftw wrote:So you're saying there is a chance Willie Green will be roaming the sidelines in 2010?
sign
me
up

Maybe 2020.

How will Willie coach and be our starting sg at the same time in 2020?

Stills12 · Post #60 » by **Stills12** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:50 am

steveb21 wrote:I dunno but I have a strong feeling it's going to be LB. Snyder is very comfortable with him and Stefanski gets a chance to save face with a real HC. Doug Collins would be the logical choice to succeed LB in Charlote given his relationship with Jordan.

It's almost as if the stars are lining up. Now all we need is to do well in the lottery...

i think its going to be larry brown too since he is the safe option right now, especially considering we are paying a guy NOT to coach. I'll be happy with him coaching and getting us back on track and when he decides to call it a day we can take a chance on a big name coach.
by that time we'll be done with paying brand and would have our draft pick(hopefully top 3) and jrue entering there primes