Interesting Star Tribune Article

[Klomp]

McHale let players do what they were good at, I don't think Rambis did.

And yet, they were still only nine games better than this year's team. Forcing players outside their comfort zone gets players to places they've never been before, doing things they've never done before. If the players cooperate, the players are better for it.

[cpfsf]

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/image/id/49848/headline/Plane%20delayed/



I wonder how many people actually knew that was Darko Milicic

[horaceworthy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci3j363HWQM

I would have hated to be working behind the ticket counter.

[cpfsf]

That translation is a 100% BS. Listen again, he's clearly talking about puppies and memories from his childhood.

[Krapinsky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci3j363HWQM

I would have hated to be working behind the ticket counter.

There's a bunch of Darko game mixes on youtube from TeamDarko. I watched a few and I want to resign him now more than ever. His post up game was really coming along towards the end of the year.

[Devilzsidewalk]

McHale let players do what they were good at, I don't think Rambis did.

And yet, they were still only nine games better than this year's team. Forcing players outside their comfort zone gets players to places they've never been before, doing things they've never done before. If the players cooperate, the players are better for it.

9 games sounds like a lot to me. McHale was winning games down the stretch w/ a rookie Kevin Love and heavy minutes for Kevin Ollie, Telfair, Carney, Shelden Williams, and Cardinal, thats not bad.

But I agree w/ you on Rambis dictating a more disciplined style of basketball and that if the players cooperate w/ Rambis, they'll improve their games. In fact they have to because Rambis is the coach. McHale's free and easy style might be more comfortable to implement because every player is more likely to reach their personal potential, but a disciplined style can make them more cohesive as a team if every one on the team is working on the same philosophy.

[Dewey]

McHale let players do what they were good at, I don't think Rambis did.

And yet, they were still only nine games better than this year's team. Forcing players outside their comfort zone gets players to places they've never been before, doing things they've never done before. If the players cooperate, the players are better for it.

9 games sounds like a lot to me. McHale was winning games down the stretch w/ a rookie Kevin Love and heavy minutes for Kevin Ollie, Telfair, Carney, Shelden Williams, and Cardinal, thats not bad.

But I agree w/ you on Rambis dictating a more disciplined style of basketball and that if the players cooperate w/ Rambis, they'll improve their games. In fact they have to because Rambis is the coach. McHale's free and easy style might be more comfortable to implement because every player is more likely to reach their personal potential, but a disciplined style can make them more cohesive as a team if every one on the team is working on the same philosophy.

I get what you're saying, but still, I don't know that I would call McHales system a "free and easy" style ... McHale was pretty demanding on players understanding their roles, whereas, Rambis wants players less confined to roles and allowed to develop more. Both work I guess.

Still, when it gets down to it, offense is offense and we're limited right now, but defensively, I'd have to say Rambis' staff really struggled to develop team defense. It could be coaching, lack of player ability, or simply a false sense of accountability ... maybe all three. This is much more concerning than the offensive limitations.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Maybe then more on a personal level he seems that way w/ people. Like when I see him on TV w/ C-Webb, C-Webb and him have a nice normal relationship and they don't ever have that weird tension Van Gundy creates sometimes because he'll step over the line w/ a comment or something. Seems like a lot of players have that same kind of attitude about McHale, if he has a strict coaching style behind the scenes, it seems to work, maybe guys just respond to him and are more open and flexible w/ his coaching style since they have a normal non-strained relationship w/ him. Last year, the team looked untalented, but they didn't seem tense or beaten down, this year those guys didn't seem to think they had a chance to win, you knew they were going to lose just by watching their sad body language on the court.

[Dewey]

Not sure if there's a right way to say it, but I just feel there was a lack of accountability this season ... too much talk about this being "merely a step" to the future lingo. I think that's hard for players to understand to the point where they don't know where they stand.

This is what concerns me about Rambis' style:
By mid-season, there needed to be some type of pecking order, so if you were performing, you were playing more. I felt I actually saw some of the opposite. Sudddenly it seemed like players were unsure of their roles, thinking too much, and playing slower ... confidence went in the crapper. When you lack confidence you stop talking ... when you stop talking, you stop playing team basketball - especially team defense.

For as much playing time as there is in 82 games ... it was just disappointing to have to work so hard to find positives when you have a young team that I felt should've showed more improvement.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think Rambis is just new, he probably has some really good ideas, he just needs to find a way to convey those ideas to the team in a way where they understand what he wants, and more importantly, where they understand the benefits to playing that way. When guys are subtly questioning what's going on through the media, thats an obvious red flag that the coaching isn't getting through to them. Love has had questions, Flynn is too nice and too new to make waves, but he has made allusions to not really agreeing w/ the way they run the offense and the lack of freedom he has, Big Al wondering why Rambis had Love trying to check Melo in that Denver game, etc. That's been a problem, even if guys don't get all the nuances of the system yet, they should at least have an idea why the system will be good for them ideally, but there's been some back talk so far. They don't seem to have that yet, Rambis needs to make them see what they're working towards somehow.

[younggunsmn]

McHale let players do what they were good at, I don't think Rambis did.

And yet, they were still only nine games better than this year's team. Forcing players outside their comfort zone gets players to places they've never been before, doing things they've never done before. If the players cooperate, the players are better for it.

9 games sounds like a lot to me. McHale was winning games down the stretch w/ a rookie Kevin Love and heavy minutes for Kevin Ollie, Telfair, Carney, Shelden Williams, and Cardinal, thats not bad.

But I agree w/ you on Rambis dictating a more disciplined style of basketball and that if the players cooperate w/ Rambis, they'll improve their games. In fact they have to because Rambis is the coach. McHale's free and easy style might be more comfortable to implement because every player is more likely to reach their personal potential, but a disciplined style can make them more cohesive as a team if every one on the team is working on the same philosophy.

We won games in April because Foye went **** on a few occasions. The big difference between McHale and Rambis is that McHale changed the system to cover for his players' weaknesses, while Rambis refused too.

Prime examples are allowing Al to be a black hole in the post, and especially sinking all his wing players deep into the lane on defense to cover for the undersized, unathletic frontline of Jefferson/Love, leaving the perimeter exposed. Does covering up your weaknesses win more games? Yes. does it help your players improve? No, it largely is the opposite. Good idea for an aging contender, horrible idea for a young team.

McHale is the one who refused to let love shoot 3's. Rambis gave him a green light, even if he only shot 33%, he developed his game further. Rambis refused to add help to bad post defenders, , making them prove themselves, revealing how bad really were.

I think a lot of this season was just seeing what guys could and could not do. Rambis running his system and seeing how guys adjusted so we can make determinations on these guys' futures.

[younggunsmn]

As far as tanking talk:
Signing Sasha was definitely a tanking-related move. The numbers said he was going to shoot a terrible percentage, and he did.

The last 2 months of the season though, and really most of the year with the exception of the 2 or 3 weeks we creeped closer to Golden State, it was pretty clear we had little to no shot at finishing better than 2nd to last, there was no reason to tank, and many nights the game was over so early that it really didn't matter.

The rest of the rotations appeared to be mostly about player development or discipline. Brewer and Ellington split most of the time at the 2, and the putrid trio of wilkins/gomes/sasha time at the 3. I would have liked to see Sessions and Ellington get at least 20 minutes per night, but I don't think we were holding them back to tank.

[younggunsmn]

I'm optimistic on Al being closer to the player he was pre-injury next year. He is not as efficient offensively as Bosh, but he is the lone player who consistently demands a double team, which is pretty valuable. Teams can play Love straight up in the post and stop him consistently. Besides putbacks, he relies on someone else creating a shot for him, usually a jump shot. If we trade Al, the defensive attention he draws goes with him, and will need to be replaced. I like Darko's low post game if he can improve his % on that unstoppable baby hook. But can he be the same type of threat as jefferson?

Watching the playoffs, and how much tighter defense is played than the regular season (maybe because the better defensive teams have a tendency to be the ones in the playoffs), it strikes me that low-post scoring, particularly against the double team, is more valuable in the playoffs than the regular season, because baskets are harder to come by.

IF we are building around rubio, ideally I would like wings that are great shooters with quick releases, and big men that can finish in close. Love doesn't fit that description, Al isn't explosive, but can finish. Pekovic is supposed to be good in close, but similarly earthbound. I remember Kahn talking about finding an explosive type finisher Big Man when he took over. Is there one in this draft? Do Favors or Cousins qualify?

[Breakdown777]

^I think both Cousins and Favors qualify. I also wouldn't rule out a possibility of slightly going after a guy like Amare (even though he'd never fit here market wise).

Until further notice, I'm labeling Rambis as a rookie coach who did some poor things with rotations, development, and player personalities/confidence. Hopefully these improve by next year, or I might want yet another coaching change.

To expand on part of that topic, is trying to turn every player into a multi-dimensional player really that beneficial? It seemed like Rambis was trying to turn all the Wolves into his style of player, and we've seen what happens when trying to shove that square peg in a round hole. I happen to like players doings what they do well and do best, and actually being allowed to do that on the court. A team full of the Trevor Arizas and Luke Waltons of the NBA are not going to be good enough at any one thing to be a great team (Then again, scrappy teams like even HOU can almost make the playoffs).
Once again, I'm not ready to put Rambis in the fire yet on the presumption that this was a one-season philosophy. Hopefully he recognizes that letting players continue to get better at what they are already good at can be helpful as well, and might make the team look a little better in the process. I'm not saying completely do away with expanding players and their abilities, but at the same time, let them free to build some confidence and showcase some talent (for viewship, ratings, and for potential trades) As a fan, do you want to see Ramon Sessions sitting around the perimeter when he can't shoot, or do you want to see him drive and dish? This wasn't a team for the fans this season, I could hardly watch them (mostly due to television restrictions, but still).

[shangrila]

I think part of the problem with the team was, like someone said, there wasn't any Alpha dogs. You look at teams like Portland and Oklahoma where everyone plays off the star and compare it to what Minnesota has and it's not hard to see what went wrong. Who got the ball at the end of games? Who was the leader on the court? Nobody could answer these questions and unless the team gets Turner or Wall they likely won't be answered until Rubio comes over.

I seem to be one of the few that liked what Rambis did this season. There was some puzzling things that happened, but overall it was obvious the season was going to be about development from the opening tip and he did a good job with that. He also developed the idea of what the team should play like and having a set system will make it much easier to find players that will excel here and those that won't. For example, having a set system has helped the Lakers, Spurs and all of those teams have continued success year in and year out, purely because they know exactly what they need from a player. And that's something this team hasn't had since it's inception, at least not for any long term period.

[Devilzsidewalk]

9 games sounds like a lot to me. McHale was winning games down the stretch w/ a rookie Kevin Love and heavy minutes for Kevin Ollie, Telfair, Carney, Shelden Williams, and Cardinal, thats not bad.

But I agree w/ you on Rambis dictating a more disciplined style of basketball and that if the players cooperate w/ Rambis, they'll improve their games. In fact they have to because Rambis is the coach. McHale's free and easy style might be more comfortable to implement because every player is more likely to reach their personal potential, but a disciplined style can make them more cohesive as a team if every one on the team is working on the same philosophy.

We won games in April because Foye went **** on a few occasions. The big difference between McHale and Rambis is that McHale changed the system to cover for his players' weaknesses, while Rambis refused too.

Foye didn't play last April, he was out w/ a hip injury. January was when he was going off

[younggunsmn]

Ahh, i was thinking the year before when he beat Milwaukee the last day of the year.