Series Thread: Toronto Blue Jays VS Kansas City Royals

[Randle McMurphy]

Vernons been dissapointing for atleast a couple of years now. And the only way to be dissapointing is if you have expectations on you, which he has had. I think part of the reason he is hitting well this year is because he's healthy. But I also think part of the reason is that there's no pressure on him. You don't get the stigma of not being clutch (check last years RISP average) if people have no expectations for you.

I meant the reasonable people that realize Wells will never live up to his contract no matter what he does.

Personally, I've never thought of him as "not being clutch," nor do I think his success this season is because of a "lack of pressure" (If the pressure was on him in previous seasons to live up the contract, why would it just go away now?). Those are just fan constructions used to explain his successes and failures, but I don't think they are grounded in reality.

His good health for the first time in two years is the thing to point to.

[fliszt25]

I can understand that the team rallies around Overbay and that he is just a human being in a slump after all, but what I don't understand is WHY NOT MOVE HIM OUT OF THE 5TH SPOT? You don't necessarily have to send him down to triple A unless he sucks for a longer time during the year, but if Cito would just take him out of a pivotal spot in the lineup, that could remove the pressure on him. Bat him 8th or something. Yes, he might take it psychologically as a demotion but guys like Gonzalez get promoted, Bautista got demoted (1st to 6th), why is Overbay immune to performance-based decisions?

[Randle McMurphy]

Cito's revenge on Overbay for commenting about not liking the platoon last year with Millar, I think.

[The_Hater]

I can understand that the team rallies around Overbay and that he is just a human being in a slump after all, but what I don't understand is WHY NOT MOVE HIM OUT OF THE 5TH SPOT?

It makes sense if Overbay has a pedigree as a top flight hitting 1B. He doesn't. He's been a below average offensive 1B for his entire career.

It also makes sense if you have nobody of value on the roster that can play his position. Instead there's a guy sitting on the pine that put up a better than 1.000 OPS in 115 AB's last year and pounded minor league pitching prior to that. Why not give him a few starts? Even worse, he's a RH hitter making him a perfect platoon partner yet Overbay has still started vs a starting LHP several times. And Overbay's career OPS vs LHP is under .700.

This is Lyle Overbay we're talking about, not Mark Texieira. He definitely hasn't earned the loyalty and the benefit of the doubt that Cito has been granting him. The Jays were trying to replace him all winter and he's definitely replaceable now.

[fliszt25]

Instead there's a guy sitting on the pine that put up a better than 1.000 OPS in 115 AB's last year and pounded minor league pitching prior to that.

I am totally on board with you about Ruiz. This guy has been a minor leaguer who has worked his way up the hard way and he gets no respect based on his success last year. The Overbay thing is just plain bizzare. Like you, I have no reason for it unless it is a case of Cito putting faith in him and being too stubborn to admit that he was wrong. The Anti-Overbay contingent may have done much to cement this stubborness. Overbay has been roasted for a while now so maybe Cito is like: 'I have to prove to these people that I can still manage so I'll wait until Lyle starts producing.'

It is also the same thing with the Tallet situation. Yes Tallet has shown himself to be a team player. He started for the Jays last year but he has never shown the talent to have a starting position reflected in his ERA. What does Cito do? He not only starts him but makes him the number 2, based not on performance, but the fact that he started for us last year.

Now Tallet has gone down allowing alot of us to breathe a sigh of relief but I would not be surprised if Cito sticks him in the rotation when he comes back at the expense of Cecil. Especially if it is a short term injury.

Interestingly, the official explanation as to why Cecil did not make the team was that Eveland outperformed him and he suffered that finger setback. Tallet's position was not even in question.

[tsherkin]

Conversations like these make me remember why I kind of breathed a sigh of relief when Cito was no longer the manager. Of course, it didn't work out all that well because there were things about every other manager (more for some, less for others) that made me tear my hair out in frustration, figuratively. Gibbons always pissed me off because he played too close to the Book, but I don't recall ever being quite as frustrated with him about not enacting a few more hit-and-runs and such as I am with Cito over Tallet and Overbay and pinch hitters and such.

Ah well. C'est la vie; getting worked up over this season isn't wise anyhow, it's not like we're competing for the wild card anyway.

[Geddy]

Cito's revenge on Overbay for commenting about not liking the platoon last year with Millar, I think.

I am thinking the same thing. I'm guessing Cito will keep him in there until Overbay says 'uncle'.

If Cito is worried that he will become disruptive if he's benched, then AA should just try to unload him for a bag of baseballs (though at this rate no one is going to take him unless part of a package).