IT'S OFFICIAL: Stern gave Game 2 to Jazz (PIC AS PROOF)

[Buckle-up]

I think it's really funny how you nuggets fans can say that melo played "great tough" defense on that play. He was all over CJ Miles the whole time, and officials are going to make that call 99 out of 100 times. Also, Melo deserved to get that foul called on him, he made a bone headed play. There was no need to foul on that play anyways, there was a 7 second differential between shot and game clock. If he would've just gotten his butt back on the other end and stopped the jazz, he would've had a chance to make the game winner... Please don't blame the loss on that one play. It was a great game, and BOTH teams got screwed with many calls...

[almost famous]

I still don't think Melo even fouled him. Miles forced the contact and used his off arm to shove Melo out of his way. The only contact was made by Miles. If crowding your man is a foul, Artest wouldn't last long playing the way he does.

[StocktonShorts]

I still don't think Melo even fouled him. Miles forced the contact and used his off arm to shove Melo out of his way. The only contact was made by Miles. If crowding your man is a foul, Artest wouldn't last long playing the way he does.

Strictly speaking, Carmelo is fouling him in the picture at the start of this thread! He's got his arm right on him! You're not allowed to ride a guy with your arm on him like that.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

I still don't think Melo even fouled him. Miles forced the contact and used his off arm to shove Melo out of his way. The only contact was made by Miles. If crowding your man is a foul, Artest wouldn't last long playing the way he does.

Strictly speaking, Carmelo is fouling him in the picture at the start of this thread! He's got his arm right on him! You're not allowed to ride a guy with your arm on him like that.

That and a lot worse happen to Melo a lot without there ever being a whistle call, and Mile is clearing pushing off.

[HammerDunk]

You guys needs to watch the play before that point. Melo was all over him from the very start of the play. He had already had the ball for a while then. You can hand check if they have your back turned to them, but not if they are trying to drive the ball.

[dis4ryan]

Don't care about the play. Melo owns the Jazz. Series is still in our favor. Just split in Mormonville.

[pickaxe]

My take on the Melo foul and CJ's foot out of bounds is this: refs often let a certain amount of contact go until an event happens that essentially forces them to make a call. The most common one is when a player misses a shot badly after being brushed on the elbow or wrist. If the makes that shot, odds are the official swallows the whistle, but as soon as he misses it "becomes" a foul.

The Miles situation is the second most common, though usually it happens on guys driving the baseline -- they get bumped a little and forced out of bounds, but it's not really until the player ends up out of bounds that the refs make the call.

I'm not saying it's the best officiating in the world, but I think it's what happened in this instance.

I'm just thinking that CJ stepping out of bounds to avoid contact and the fact he is fending off Melo with his arm should indicate that he chose to force the contact without holding his ground. He didn't try to spin off and back onto the court - he chose to force his move right by the line. I say that's a gamble on CJ's part and if his foot touches over the line like that he loses that gamble.

But whatever....I guess if you play a man tight (like you're supposed to), he can shimmy off you in any manner he pleases and the lines don't exist.

And what I'm saying in this quote is CJ chose to drive along the baseline instead of bringing it to the middle. Just because he runs out of space doesn't mean he gets to clear Melo out to continue his run. I mean they call tickey-tack fouls for barely brushing someone on a screen, but all this action is happening in bounds

Anyway, I don't think the entire game was lost on that one play, I'm just calling it like I see it.

And I do think they need to figure out the definition of incidental contact better. Almost to the point where they let the invisible stuff go (brushes, bumps) and call the stuff like elbows and pushes and holds. "Riding" a guy does not necessarily mean you are just because your arm is up.

I didn't see CJ make an attempt to stay in bounds. I bet he would have had a clearer foul had he attempted to stay in bounds. Either that or we would have seen Melo wasn't "riding" him. I believe as the offensive player you have to make an attempt to stay in bounds. If someone completely fouls you that's on them.

[StocktonShorts]

Anyway, I don't think the entire game was lost on that one play, I'm just calling it like I see it.

True enough, and if the Jazz had lost we Utah fans would be pointing to any number of questionable calls that went the other way (including -- since we're speaking of the lines on the court -- one earlier in the game where Carmelo came from out of bounds to score a layup).

And I do think they need to figure out the definition of incidental contact better. Almost to the point where they let the invisible stuff go (brushes, bumps) and call the stuff like elbows and pushes and holds. "Riding" a guy does not necessarily mean you are just because your arm is up.

I'd love to see the refs become more consistent, but I don't think it's going to happen. I think the refs do a lot of "mental gymnastics" when they're officiating in an effort to balance things out in their minds. For example, when the ball gets knocked out of bounds off of the offensive player but there was some contact on the play they'll just give it to the offensive team rather than whistle a foul. And I think makeup calls are real and do happen, especially after questionable offensive fouls.

I could see Spooner's train of thought going like this:

"Ok that's just normal jockeying for"
"He's on him pretty tight but I don't want to call a foul at this point of a playoff game"
"Did he just step out?"
"Am I supposed to be doing the 8-second count?"
"Ok now that's a reach"
"Or is it a wipeaway"
"Crap I'd better call something"
"Better late than never"
WHISTLE
"Leon's gonna be pissed"

[KAVK]

Don't care about the play. Melo owns the Jazz. Series is still in our favor. Just split in Mormonville.

Well said!

These refs just funky lately at the start of the post season. hope they done warming up! Regardless of how the officiating WE MUST OWN JAZZ !

Billups will do his thing after all these days of rest i assume!

[pickaxe]

Anyway, I don't think the entire game was lost on that one play, I'm just calling it like I see it.

True enough, and if the Jazz had lost we Utah fans would be pointing to any number of questionable calls that went the other way (including -- since we're speaking of the lines on the court -- one earlier in the game where Carmelo came from out of bounds to score a layup).

And I do think they need to figure out the definition of incidental contact better. Almost to the point where they let the invisible stuff go (brushes, bumps) and call the stuff like elbows and pushes and holds. "Riding" a guy does not necessarily mean you are just because your arm is up.

I'd love to see the refs become more consistent, but I don't think it's going to happen. I think the refs do a lot of "mental gymnastics" when they're officiating in an effort to balance things out in their minds. For example, when the ball gets knocked out of bounds off of the offensive player but there was some contact on the play they'll just give it to the offensive team rather than whistle a foul. And I think makeup calls are real and do happen, especially after questionable offensive fouls.

I could see Spooner's train of thought going like this:

"Ok that's just normal jockeying for"
"He's on him pretty tight but I don't want to call a foul at this point of a playoff game"
"Did he just step out?"
"Am I supposed to be doing the 8-second count?"
"Ok now that's a reach"
"Or is it a wipeaway"
"Crap I'd better call something"
"Better late than never"
WHISTLE
"Leon's gonna be pissed"

I kind of like how they call it out on making the call with ronnie nunn. They will analyze and say "This happened, but this also happened. The latter takes precedent."

That acknowledges that the ref saw the toe on the line but he is going to call body contact or whatever. I know that would take some work on the ref's part....but it's something that might save a lot of questioning. The main question going through anyone's mind when seeing that picture is "did the ref see his foot on the line?"

I do think there's a lot to be said for how a player's been doing defense most of the game....however a player shouldn't be punished for wanting to step it up at the end.

We've had our guys pushed out in the playoffs (I think Spurs) similar to that and had the call go against us then. So....either they no longer make the call the other way, or it was a bad call.

[StocktonShorts]

I kind of like how they call it out on making the call with ronnie nunn. They will analyze and say "This happened, but this also happened. The latter takes precedent."

Hey, someone else watches Making the Call? That's a great show. I think it's a must for any serious NBA fan. I think it's safe to say I've never liked any ref as much as I like Ronnie Nunn now.

[easiestplayfts]

Do people realize you get ejected after the 6th foul........stop complaining there were 5 other fouls. So what?

Players and coaches need to realize how the referees are calling the game. Someone on this board actually thought Ty could foul out D-Will.

[idajazz]

The thing that lost the game for Denver and will end up costing them the whole series is composure.

I was struck by the amount of whining, crying, and hissyfits from the Denver players.
It looked like Sloan has pounded just the opposite into the Jazz players, they tended to just ignore the ref's.
That is where the loss of your head coach is felt the most. If the nuggets keep up the same in Utah I expect technicals and a total melt down.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Do people realize you get ejected after the 6th foul........stop complaining there were 5 other fouls. So what?

Players and coaches need to realize how the referees are calling the game. Someone on this board actually thought Ty could foul out D-Will.

Incorrect, thought Ty could get him in to foul trouble. That was before realizing just how badly the officials have it out for Denver though.

[pickaxe]

I kind of like how they call it out on making the call with ronnie nunn. They will analyze and say "This happened, but this also happened. The latter takes precedent."

Hey, someone else watches Making the Call? That's a great show. I think it's a must for any serious NBA fan. I think it's safe to say I've never liked any ref as much as I like Ronnie Nunn now.

Yeah! I don't have nba tv right now, but i catch clips whenever i can....it was a dvr staple for me a couple years ago.

I'm all for breaking those plays down and beign able to recognize the right call.

and on the bias that the refs show....it's not so much the calls that go against us in those final moments, it's the overall take on the game - it seems incredible inconsistent throughout the game regardless of who's getting screwed atm it's happening...

i think i can speak for most players and or fans when i say all we ask for is consistency......with consistency the correct basketball decisions can be made in a given situation....if you don't know how hard you can play a guy you might give him a little daylight that he needs to knock a shot down

[Lionel Messi]

In that picture the ref's eyes are closed, it looks like he was blinking at that exact moment

[Scorpjazz]

Pic proves that Anthony was boneheaded enough to force CJ out of bounds knowing he had 5 fouls. It is the same call almost everytime in the NBA. You ride a guy by the sideline, they will usually let it go unless you force him out, in which case they are forced to make the call. IF you are the star player, you HAVE to know this and not take the chance of getting your 6th, bottomline. It is on Anthony. I honestly feel bad for Nuggets fans that your star player is SO talented yet has no maturity and acts like a little kid all the time. He is no team leader and throws the team under the bus after games they lose, Like he did everything he could but the team let him down. Great leader. Tons of talent, if he could just grow up a little, he would be right near the top.
I cant get on Nugget fans too much for ref bashing. Jazz fans do it too, so dont feel alone. NBA refs suck, no doubt. It is the calls that go against you that you remember, not all the ones they messed up in your favor earlier. Been there. Good luck in game 4, Im sure it will be a battle.

[hourockman]

That's 7 years ago.

It was also when Mr. Big Shot's team got spotted +12 FTAs in each game, the worst 5 gm disparity in the Finals dating back to the 70s.

If you had that kind of leeway, you'd be toasting each other on a series win right now.