OT: Crossing the Mound

ghostinthepost · Post #1 » by **ghostinthepost** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:24 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Dallas-Braden-blasts-A-Rod-for-breaking-unwritte?urn=mlb,236110
What do you guys think of this? Other than the biased writer I think I'm siding with the pitcher. even though it basically worked perfect for arod as it pissed him off it was still a dick move.

raps4life~ · Post #2 » by **raps4life~** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:01 pm

A-Rod is an absolute tool. Remember this? http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/ ... 7-sun.html

I'm 100% with Braden on this one.

youngLion · Post #3 » by **youngLion** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:22 pm

raps4life~ wrote:A-Rod is an absolute tool. Remember this? http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/ ... 7-sun.html

I'm 100% with Braden on this one.

I'm no fan of A-Rod, but the 'Mine' incident never bothered me at all, and I thought it was totally blown out of proportion. Feints like this are part of the game. Outfielders pretend to go for flyballs that aren't headed for them to confuse baserunners, pitchers try to mess with baserunners (Hentgen's fake comes to mind), these techniques have been around forever, and I find this aspect of the game entertaining.

Randle McMurphy · Post #4 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:59 pm

I'd never seen anybody shout "mine" at a infielder on a popup before ARod did it (at any level of baseball), and I doubt I'll ever see it again. Completely bush league thing to do and obviously not part of the game at all. The Jays wouldn't have that been pissed off at an outfielder or infielder feint, that's for sure.

As for this, I have no idea why ARod decided to walk over the pitcher's mound (he probably wasn't even thinking). That said, I've never seen that either.

youngLion · Post #5 » by **youngLion** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:05 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:I'd never seen anybody shout "mine" at a infielder on a popup before ARod did it (at any level of baseball), and I doubt I'll ever see it again. Completely bush league thing to do and obviously not part of the game at all. The Jays wouldn't have that been pissed off at an outfielder or infielder feint, that's for sure.

As for this, I have no idea why ARod decided to walk over the pitcher's mound (he probably wasn't even thinking). That said, I've never seen that either.

You've never seen it because players aren't miced. Do you honestly think that's the first time a baserunner has done something like that? There's all kinds of misdirection in the game.

raps4life~ · Post #6 » by **raps4life~** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:15 pm

youngLion wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:I'd never seen anybody shout "mine" at a infielder on a popup before ARod did it (at any level of baseball), and I doubt I'll ever see it again. Completely bush league thing to do and obviously not part of the game at all. The Jays wouldn't have that been pissed off at an outfielder or infielder feint, that's for sure.

As for this, I have no idea why ARod decided to walk over the pitcher's mound (he probably wasn't even thinking). That said, I've never seen that either.

You've never seen it because players aren't miked. Do you honestly think that's the first time a baserunner has done something like that? There's all kinds of misdirection in the game.

Misdirection is OK, it is the teams responsibility to overcome misdirection, like when a player purposely slides into a 2nd baseman on DP, or when an outfielder pretends to have caught the ball to try to fool a base runner. But actually saying "mine" is ridiculous, and just isn't done in the big leagues. If it was, this A-Rod thing wouldn't be a big deal.

Randle McMurphy · Post #7 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:17 pm

youngLion wrote:You've never seen it because players aren't miked.

ARod wasn't miked.

Do you honestly think that's the first time a baserunner has done something like that?

Yes, I do. Why do you think the Jays reacted so poorly to it and decided to hold a grudge for a few months before hitting him? If it was a regular thing to do (which it wasn't), it would have been let go like any other kind of "misdirection."

There's all kinds of misdirection in the game.

Of course. But nothing like pretending you are another fielder on the field while running the bases.

Brew666 · Post #8 » by **Brew666** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:21 pm

A-Rod is a clown and has no respect for the game

satyr9 · Post #9 » by **satyr9** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Both the shout and crossing the mound are no-no's for ballplayers. Crossing the mound would've been fine with me if he'd owned it after the game and said he just had a brain cramp for a second, 'cause it's really not a big deal, just a point of etiquette. But he played it off like he'd never even heard of the idea, which is total BS. The yelling at Clark was ridiculous. Your coach would skewer you if you did that in peewee house league, let alone the show.

The shout at Clark was the bigger foul in my opinion 'cause it had to be deliberate, whereas crossing the mound could just be a momentary lapse in concentration and as long as he's not kicking dirt around he doesn't mess with the game itself one bit. Pretending afterwards like neither of those are dont's in baseball is a complete joke and if ever there should've been a time for a teammate to say something in the press about him, these would've been it, just to set the record straight and send him the message that nothing is accomplished disrespecting the codes other than making yourself look like an as*hat.

raps4life~ · Post #10 » by **raps4life~** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:58 pm

I especially like this quote from the great A-Rod:

"I was a little surprised. I've never quite heard that, especially from a guy that has a handful of wins in his career. I've never even heard of that in my career and I still don't know. I thought it was pretty funny, actually."

What a turd.

youngLion · Post #11 » by **youngLion** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:00 pm

The Jays were pissed off because they lost, and then the media ran with it because ARod is a lightning rod and sells papers. Nobody here would remember this if it hadn't affected the Jays or it wasn't ARod. Clark should have made the catch anyway, and if he had this is a non-issue. The idea that he was the first guy to ever try this is pretty rich. It's presumptuous to assume that we as fans can see every minute detail of player interaction on tv.

The idea that this was some abhorrence on the game is also way over the top. How is it fundamentally wrong for a baserunner to try to trick a fielder but fine for a fielder to try trick a baserunner?

Brew666 · Post #12 » by **Brew666** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:58 pm

youngLion wrote:The Jays were pissed off because they lost, and then the media ran with it because ARod is a lightning rod and sells papers. Nobody here would remember this if it hadn't affected the Jays or it wasn't ARod. Clark should have made the catch anyway, and if he had this is a non-issue. The idea that he was the first guy to ever try this is pretty rich. It's presumptuous to assume that we as fans can see every minute detail of player interaction on tv.

The idea that this was some abhorrence on the game is also way over the top. How is it fundamentally wrong for a baserunner to try to trick a fielder but fine for a fielder to try trick a baserunner?

If I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure Johnny Mac was pretty pissed on the field and it wasn't because they lost. The problem with yelling "mine" is the fact that when you yell "mine" you're telling the other fielder to get out of the way because you're going to collide. Look at what happened to Eckstein and Hill earlier in the season to see what happens when there is miscommunication on the field. Ya maybe Clark should've caught it, but when you hear a voice that close to you yelling "mine", you're going to get out of the way.

Randle McMurphy · Post #13 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:11 pm

youngLion wrote:The Jays were pissed off because they lost,

No, they were pissed off because it was a bush league play that they had never seen at any level of baseball before.

and then the media ran with it because ARod is a lightning rod and sells papers.

The media ran with it because its an interesting, antagonistic story, like this one with Braden is. It helps that ARod is such a completely hateable douche.

Nobody here would remember this if it hadn't affected the Jays or it wasn't ARod.

Why? I remember ARod slapping the ball out of Bronson Arroyo's glove perfectly well, and I assume that I will remember this quite well too.

Clark should have made the catch anyway, and if he had this is a non-issue.

Have you ever played the game? If the SS from behind you is calling you off (though usually they should and do say more than just "mine"), you are supposed to back off. Clark did but unfortunately for him, John McDonald wasn't the one yelling at him.

The idea that he was the first guy to ever try this is pretty rich. It's presumptuous to assume that we as fans can see every minute detail of player interaction on tv.

In my 15 years of playing/umping baseball, I never saw anybody try to do what ARod did in that game. And as I said, I've never seen a major leaguer try anything like it either. There's a reason the Jays reacted so poorly. Any other team would have.

The idea that this was some abhorrence on the game is also way over the top. How is it fundamentally wrong for a baserunner to try to trick a fielder but fine for a fielder to try trick a baserunner?

That's a baseball culture thing that has a basis in the history of the game. Some actions are taboo and some are not. There doesn't have to be any logic to any of this.

Randle McMurphy · Post #14 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:15 pm

raps4life~ wrote:I especially like this quote from the great A-Rod:
"I was a little surprised. I've never quite heard that, especially from a guy that has a handful of wins in his career. I've never even heard of that in my career and I still don't know. I thought it was pretty funny, actually."

What a turd.

Yes...I bet that ARod never would have considered yelling "mine" if it was Troy Glaus on 3rd instead of Howie Clark. Kind of reminds me of Garnett's actions on the basketball court in recent years.

Post #15 » by **Geddy** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:25 pm

I thought the thing about shouting 'mine' was stupid on his part, but getting angry about running across the mound is a waste of energy.

SharoneWright · Post #16 » by **SharoneWright** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:38 pm

Count me a member of the Dallas Braden fanclub. Dude plays it straight and won't be intimidated.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/ ... XWHcIoV0nM

"What do you think?" the lefty said. "The guy was tasting himself too much to apologize. I have a lot of respect for what he has done in the game, but I am disappointed to see the other side."

"For him not to understand the baseball etiquette of running across that pitchers mound is right next to terrible.

"I am not a speck on his radar and that is fine, but I know I was out there and he will know not to do that again because there will be repercussions if it happens again."

Randle McMurphy · Post #17 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:41 pm

youngLion · Post #18 » by **youngLion** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:43 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:stuff

Did you ump in the majors then? Somebody suggested that this would be frowned in house league and that might be true, and this ain't no house league. These guys are in it to win it, and trying to gain an edge by saying one word simply isn't too egregious.

One thing we can agree on is that there isn't always logic to baseball's unwritten rules, but as a fan I'm going to make my own determination as to what is or isn't over the line. A pitcher putting pine tar on the ball is, one word of misdirection isn't.

I'm not going to spend any more time essentially defending A-Rod. I don't like him, but I think people are reaching here and being petty because they already dislike him.

Modern_epic · Post #19 » by **Modern_epic** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:12 am

That's nice and all, but your really are wrong. If it really wasn't a big deal, more players would be doing it on the hundreds of plays a year where the could try.

Randle McMurphy · Post #20 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:43 am

youngLion wrote:Did you ump in the majors then? Somebody suggested that this would be frowned in house league and that might be true, and this ain't no house league. These guys are in it to win it, and trying to gain an edge by saying one word simply isn't too egregious.

It's frowned on in the majors, too, considering the shock that John McDonald exhibited after it happened, and the grudge that the team held for months after the incident.

One thing we can agree on is that there isn't always logic to baseball's unwritten rules, but as a fan I'm going to make my own determination as to what is or isn't over the line. A pitcher putting pine tar on the ball is, one word of misdirection isn't.

That's fine. But you have to acknowledge that what ARod did is considered bush league in baseball. If it wasn't, as Modern_epic said, this would be happening all the time and nobody would be reacting to it like the Jays did.