Terrible Managing By Cito! What's New ?

[AceKobe]

Why did he not leave Ricky in there ? I do not understand, the night before Downs gave up 2 runs, and you bring him in, with a close ball game. He should have brought in Camp, or better yet let Romero Work the 8, and have our closer come in and close it out for a win, instead he makes another bone head move and puts us in a position to lose once again. I sometimes think he's doing it on purpose.

This is the difference between him and Maddon, please we need a new manager. Cito's antics are getting down right terrible. The jays are a good team and now we are losing because of our management. Cito needs a kick because his old school ways are not in fashion anymore. They are just bone head moves. He is nothing more than a hitting coach. Nothing but a hitting coach. Please get rid of him, we need a manager and if next year we have to contend we need the manager to get accustomed to out players and no year is better than this year, when we are building for the future and the future means a new manager as well.

[Randle McMurphy]

Uh, no. Hindsight is 20-20. There was nothing wrong with taking Romero out at 105 pitches after that high intensity 7th inning. In fact, I was quite glad to see him do it. And Downs has been this team's best and most dependable reliever for 3 years now...why would he bring in Camp?

Cito's main error tonight as a manager was not pinch hitting Randy Ruiz in the 7th inning...a hit there could have changed the entire direction of the game.

[AceKobe]

I agree with you on the pinch hitting, but honestly pinch hit for who ? Overbay ? he had 2 hits in the 3 at bats. And Downs the night before gave up 2 runs, u don't bring a pitcher to mound in a close game who just gave up 2 runs the night before and almost lost us the game. You bring someone who is hot and shutting people down, and Downs wasn't doing that. You see how Ricky is ? see if he can get through the inning, if he walks someone or gives up a hit then you bring someone else, otherwise you him in for maybe 10-15 pitches and if he finishes the inning then great. If he's close to one out then bring in you're closer for a 4 out inning, because our closer has proven he can do that. You go with what's proven and hot, not with past success and past accomplishments. That's what gets you in trouble.

[Attonitus]

AA should have gotten rid of Scott "glass toe" Downs the second the phillies showed interest, he could have traded him for Halladay's jock strap for all I care, we still would be better off. Really, he should go back to dyeing his hair red to play Ronald McDonald at kids birthday parties and stop blowing games for us.

[Randle McMurphy]

I agree with you on the pinch hitting, but honestly pinch hit for who ? Overbay ? he had 2 hits in the 3 at bats. And Downs the night before gave up 2 runs, u don't bring a pitcher to mound in a close game who just gave up 2 runs the night before and almost lost us the game. You bring someone who is hot and shutting people down, and Downs wasn't doing that. You see how Ricky is ? see if he can get through the inning, if he walks someone or gives up a hit then you bring someone else, otherwise you him in for maybe 10-15 pitches and if he finishes the inning then great. If he's close to one out then bring in you're closer for a 4 out inning, because our closer has proven he can do that. You go with what's proven and hot, not with past success and past accomplishments. That's what gets you in trouble.

Fred Lewis should have been pinch hit for against Choate in the 7th with the bases loaded. He has extreme platoon splits.

[RockTHECasbah]

It was actually a week before

and "proven" and "past success" are the same thing

[OldNo7]

Why do you want a new manager for a season where there is no expectations and we are just planning for future years anyways?

[Modern_epic]

Why do you want a new manager for a season where there is no expectations and we are just planning for future years anyways?

Really? Is this a serious question?

So that we don't have a manger with a history of messing with youngsters. Or so that we don't have a manager with a history of overworking his starters when Marcum, who is coming off major surgery, is our most experienced guy in the rotation. Perhaps so that we can watch games this season without having to scream "what the **** are you doing" twice a night.

But more than any of that, it's probably a good idea to get your new coaching staff in while there are zero expectations, so that they can work though things they see with their new players with no pressure.

[Michael Bradley]

The next Jays manager has to be one who will be with the team for a long time (start when the team is rebuilding and stay until hopefully they become competitive). A young equivalent of Mike Scioscia, if there is one. The revolving door managers have to end.

Next season the Jays figure to have even more youth than they have now (Wallace at 1B, Arencibia at CA, possibly Hech at SS depending on what their plan is with him, and any number of rotation/bullpen arms like Cecil, Rzep, Mills, etc). Cito is fine for now since we still have a bit of a return group out there relatively speaking, but once more of the minor league players start filtering in, there needs to be a younger manager who sees eye to eye with the GM. Not a lacky like John Gibbons or Carlos Tosca, but a real long-term calibre manager.

[LittleOzzy]

Why do you want a new manager for a season where there is no expectations and we are just planning for future years anyways?

Well said.

Cito is doing a fine job knowing we really are not playing for anything. He gives the guys plenty of chances to play through mistakes and that is what they really need.

Pulling a player or whatever may help win a game, but does that teach anyone anything? This season is all about learning, and who better a teacher than a two time champion?

[Randle McMurphy]

Well said.

Cito is doing a fine job knowing we really are not playing for anything. He gives the guys plenty of chances to play through mistakes and that is what they really need.

Pulling a player or whatever may help win a game, but does that teach anyone anything? This season is all about learning, and who better a teacher than a two time champion?

Oh I don't know, how about a manager who didn't cause a player mutiny at the end of last year because of his obvious ineptitude?

Would that really be too much to ask?

[MGD24]

Would that really be too much to ask?

yes.

[LittleOzzy]

Well said.

Cito is doing a fine job knowing we really are not playing for anything. He gives the guys plenty of chances to play through mistakes and that is what they really need.

Pulling a player or whatever may help win a game, but does that teach anyone anything? This season is all about learning, and who better a teacher than a two time champion?

Oh I don't know, how about a manager who didn't cause a player mutiny at the end of last year because of his obvious ineptitude?

Would that really be too much to ask?

From what I understand the players got upset over his "old school approach"... It sounds to me like the players just got sick of losing and couldn't handle hearing some actual criticism from the manager.

I like the fact that Cito likely yelled at a few guys. if they can't handle that too bad. Players today expect to be babied too much.

Cito has his faults, but letting the guys play through mistakes and sticking to a consistent lineup is not one of them.

[Randle McMurphy]

From what I understand the players got upset over his "old school approach"... It sounds to me like the players just got sick of losing and couldn't handle hearing some actual criticism from the manager.

Old school approach? Cito doesn't even have an approach.
Losing? This team has been a .500 team for years and last year was no different.

No, what it looked like to me was a team that was fed up with a manager putting the team behind the eight ball every game. It's fairly easy to make the correct baseball decisions that give your team the best chance to win, and Cito just doesn't do it. He never has. The players aren't used to that kind of incompetence.

You see, unlike most of the fans, the players actually pay attention and notice when Cito doesn't pinch hit for guys like Fred Lewis and John McDonald at end of games or moves the infield in when it's completely unnecessary. Considering these guys are highly competitive athletes that want to win, that pisses them off. They even went so far to let the media know about it last year.

I like the fact that Cito likely yelled at a few guys. if they can't handle that too bad. Players today expect to be babied too much.

I doubt Cito yelled at anybody at all last year. He's probably the team's most passive manager of the last 10 years.

Cito has his faults, but letting the guys play through mistakes and sticking to a consistent lineup is not one of them.

Cito has enormous faults and managing a professional baseball team is certainly one of them.

[Schad]

Uh, no. Hindsight is 20-20. There was nothing wrong with taking Romero out at 105 pitches after that high intensity 7th inning. In fact, I was quite glad to see him do it. And Downs has been this team's best and most dependable reliever for 3 years now...why would he bring in Camp?

Cito's main error tonight as a manager was not pinch hitting Randy Ruiz in the 7th inning...a hit there could have changed the entire direction of the game.

Agreed on all counts...who gives a **** whether we win games this year. Protecting our young starters is much more important, and I'd have lost it had he sent Romero out there to throw 120 in a meaningless April game.

And with Downs, he was great last year. He was great the year before. His numbers were good entering yesterday. He had a bad outing, as relief pitchers are wont to do, and it was made to look considerably worse because Janssen imploded behind him, allowing all of the inherited runners to score. You people are getting pathetically fickle...Christ, a guy who was arguably one of the three best relievers in the entire **** AL from 2007-2009 and you want to dump him for nothing because he gave up two singles and a **** walk. Go back to the Raptors board, for ****'s sake.

[Randle McMurphy]

Christ, a guy who was arguably one of the three best relievers in the entire **** AL from 2007-2009 and you want to dump him for nothing because he gave up two singles and a **** walk. Go back to the Raptors board, for ****'s sake.

Haha, unfortunately fickleness isn't something exclusive to Raptors fans.

This becomes especially evident if you listen to JaysTalk.

[OldNo7]

Agreed on all counts...who gives a **** whether we win games this year. Protecting our young starters is much more important, and I'd have lost it had he sent Romero out there to throw 120 in a meaningless April game.

Exactly, and the OP is mad because Ricky got pulled after throwing 105?