Where would Serge Ibaka go in the draft

vincecarter4pres · Post #41 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:25 am

I can't believe people are saying this guy would go top 5. I'm thinking 8-15 and that's knowing what we know now about this guy. To me this thread is a testament to how Favors could drop like a rock, not that Ibaka could realistically go as high as some are saying.

ThunderPoke · Post #42 » by **ThunderPoke** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:26 pm

Do you watch basketball? Seriously.

NetsForce · Post #43 » by **NetsForce** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:12 pm

If you watch basketball you'd understand that even knowing what we know now Ibaka easily would not be a top 5 draft pick in this year's draft, put down the homoerade if you think otherwise.

Prospect Dong · Post #44 » by **Prospect Dong** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:18 pm

ThunderPoke wrote:Do you watch basketball? Seriously.

Mostly I just watch and wait for someone to perform a 48" vertical leap, so I can post about it on realgm. You appear to have skipped that first step though, which certainly you saved time.

I've got what I call the "Chandler/Bender" rule. If someone feels the need to lie outrageously about your vertical leap, you're never going to realise the potential they see in you.

ThunderPoke · Post #45 » by **ThunderPoke** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:12 pm

Good point, clown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-6opHOfJJE

NetsForce · Post #46 » by **NetsForce** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:32 pm

Carter's pre-draft measurements say his max verical was 43'' I think his true max vertical was probably around 46'' but regardless Ibaka's max vertical was not greater than Carter's...

Prospect Dong · Post #47 » by **Prospect Dong** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:56 pm

ThunderPoke wrote:Good point, clown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-6opHOfJJE

Also, it's worth remembering the Gerald Green rule: Any time someone tries to prove something about a player using a completely irrelevant youtube link, that player's probably not as good as the guy is claiming.

Three (and a half) words: Pre-draft combine measurements.

ThunderPoke · Post #48 » by **ThunderPoke** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:48 pm

You're right. It's probably superimposed, CGI-like effects.

Ibaka probably wouldn't even get drafted. He's just not any good and has no potential.

AQuintus · Post #49 » by **AQuintus** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:52 pm

ThunderPoke wrote:You're right. It's probably superimposed, CGI-like effects.

Ibaka probably wouldn't even get drafted. He's just not any good and has no potential.

That video doesn't prove anything, though. They say that he touched higher than they could measure. They didn't say anything else, especially not that he has a 48 inch vert. It doesn't disprove the (official?) measurement of 33 inches.

ponder276 · Post #50 » by **ponder276** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:03 am

AQuintus wrote:
ThunderPoke wrote:You're right. It's probably superimposed, CGI-like effects.

Ibaka probably wouldn't even get drafted. He's just not any good and has no potential.

That video doesn't prove anything, though. They say that he touched higher than they could measure. They didn't say anything else, especially not that he has a 48 inch vert. It doesn't disprove the (official?) measurement of 33 inches.

Indeed, he was measured as having a 33" max vert, there's really no denying this. Also, nobody in the history of the NBA has EVER been measured as having anything close to a 48" vert.

Ibaka has a 9' 3" standing reach, with a 33" vert he'd be able to touch 12" on the dot, which is VERY high, 2 full feet above the rim. You look at some of his dunks in that vid, he's probably coming somewhat close to that. Ibaka has a real nice vert, but he also has super long arms, and long armed players often appear to jump higher than they do because we watch the hands, not the feet. Anyone who thinks Ibaka has a 48" reach clearly has never paid attention to any sort of draft combine or camp, because if they had, they'd know how ridiculously ludicrous a claim that truly is.

If he had a 48" vert, he'd be able to reach 13' 3", and nobody has ever been recorded to reach the top of the backboard, 13'. Furthermore, the top of his head would be at a full 10" above the rim when dunking! Clearly this is not the case, I've never even seen his head at rim level on any dunk, never mind 10" above.

I'm gonna quote this again, just because it's hilarious:

ThunderPoke wrote:He has as much or more potential than anyone in the NBA right now. His ceiling is nearly unlimited.

6'10" with a 48" vertical, and he can actually shoot decently.

Ibaka apparently has as much or more potential than LeBron James. Good to know.

vincecarter4pres · Post #51 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:39 am

Much or more, yo!

dream_catcher_9 · Post #52 » by **dream_catcher_9** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:12 am

Why wouldn't he go top 5? He is a great defensive prospect with great athleticism, good rebounder, strong, high energy/intensity, and some offensive skills who shoots a good percentage.

Take for instance Ed Davis who is projected to go #7 by Draftexpress, and you can easily make a case for Ibaka over him from what we know now about Serge.

vincecarter4pres · Post #53 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:26 am

I highly doubt Ed Davis goes 7th overall, but that's not top 5 anyway, so how does that help your case?

ManualRam · Post #54 » by **ManualRam** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:17 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:I highly doubt Ed Davis goes 7th overall, but that's not top 5 anyway, so how does that help your case?

6<<7 which is close to 5. there's no clear cut top 5 in this draft.
ibaka's a better player and athlete than favors. favors is a consensus top 5.
thats my argument for him being top 5.

dream_catcher_9 · Post #55 » by **dream_catcher_9** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:52 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:I highly doubt Ed Davis goes 7th overall, but that's not top 5 anyway, so how does that help your case?

7 is pretty close to 5, and I think Ibaka is a slightly better prospect than Davis. Both are long athletic players but Ibaka is much more explosive both vertically and in quickness. Both are great shot blockers, Ibaka uses better athleticism while Davis has better timing. Both are really raw offensively, Davis has a better feel for the game, while Ibaka has a lot more range on his shot. Davis is a very good rebounder probably slightly better than Ibaka, while Serge has a much stronger frame. I like Serge's defensive potential more than Davis, while a case can be made who is the better offensive threat down the road. Davis has better feel for positioning, while Ibaka has very good range up to 20 feet.

John Doe [MIN] · Post #56 » by **John Doe [MIN]** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:56 am

He's not top 5 because he's not a two way player. Two numbers should tell you about everything you need to know: TS%: .562, Usage Rate 16.2%. So even though he gets used on offense no more often than the classic "stand by the rim, hope for a dunk opportunity" center, his True Shooting Percentage is 4-5% lower than what those types of players regularly put up.

And what's more, he's not a center. Teams get away with no offense centers because that's all that's available. By contrast, power forward is arguably the most offensively stacked position in the league, which means a no-offense PF will be outperformed by a greater proportion of his competition than would a similarly talented defensive specialist at any other position. Hopefully people can follow that logic.

Lastly, he'd absolutely be on an entirely lower tier from both Favors and Davis. Favors and Davis are the 1st or 2nd options on their teams. Ibaka is less efficient as his team's 4th or 5th option. That's the difference between them as prospects. And as a side note about Favors, I've now had people tell me that he's A) not as big as advertised B) not as athletic as advertised C) unskilled D) not being fed easy buckets by his guards. How exactly is a short, fat, unskilled, un-set-up player putting up the numbers he did?

Joel Embust · Post #57 » by **Joel Embust** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:57 am

dream_catcher_9 wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:I highly doubt Ed Davis goes 7th overall, but that's not top 5 anyway, so how does that help your case?

7 is pretty close to 5, and I think Ibaka is a slightly better prospect than Davis. Both are long athletic players but Ibaka is much more explosive both vertically and in quickness. Both are great shot blockers, Ibaka uses better athleticism while Davis has better timing. Both are really raw offensively, Davis has a better feel for the game, while Ibaka has a lot more range on his shot. Davis is a very good rebounder probably slightly better than Ibaka, while Serge has a much stronger frame. I like Serge's defensive potential more than Davis, while a case can be made who is the better offensive threat down the road. Davis has better feel for positioning, while Ibaka has very good range up to 20 feet.

Plus he's younger than Davis while having international experience, a full season of North American basketball at the highest level and a playoff series against great competition under his belt.

some_rand · Post #58 » by **some_rand** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:02 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-6opHOfJJE[/youtube]
at 2:30 of the vid the guy says "42"
maybe 33 is his standing vert??
either way, he can jump high and has a 7'4 wing span

dream_catcher_9 · Post #59 » by **dream_catcher_9** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:29 am

John Doe [MIN] wrote:He's not top 5 because he's not a two way player. Two numbers should tell you about everything you need to know: TS%: .562, Usage Rate 16.2%. So even though he gets used on offense no more often than the classic "stand by the rim, hope for a dunk opportunity" center, his True Shooting Percentage is 4-5% lower than what those types of players regularly put up.

And what's more, he's not a center. Teams get away with no offense centers because that's all that's available. By contrast, power forward is arguably the most offensively stacked position in the league, which means a no-offense PF will be outperformed by a greater proportion of his competition than would a similarly talented defensive specialist at any other position. Hopefully people can follow that logic.

Lastly, he'd absolutely be on an entirely lower tier from both Favors and Davis. Favors and Davis are the 1st or 2nd options on their teams. Ibaka is less efficient as his team's 4th or 5th option. That's the difference between them as prospects. And as a side note about Favors, I've now had people tell me that he's A) not as big as advertised B) not as athletic as advertised C) unskilled D) not being fed easy buckets by his guards. How exactly is a short, fat, unskilled, un-set-up player putting up the numbers he did?

I don't know why you are bringing up his TS% as he is a rookie. He will get better just as Davis will. Put Davis in Ibaka's shoes right now I doubt he has better #'s. Heck he will probably be doing worse since his strength is not on Serge's level.

unlike most athletic energy defensive specialists, he is a good shooter from mid range, and has a jumper. If anything he needs to work on his finishing around the basket.

16-23 feet = 39%
10-15 feet = 49%
<10 feet = 57%
at rim = 61%

I have watched Ed Davis numerous times and I don't think he is as good a prospect. He is weaker, not as athletic, not as good a defender, and doesn't have Ibaka's range on offense. He has a better feel for the game and is a slightly better rebounder. He is also a PF who will struggle guarding guys out on the perimeter.

dream_catcher_9 · Post #60 » by **dream_catcher_9** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:33 am

John Doe [MIN] wrote:He's not top 5 because he's not a two way player. Two numbers should tell you about everything you need to know: TS%: .562, Usage Rate 16.2%. So even though he gets used on offense no more often than the classic "stand by the rim, hope for a dunk opportunity" center, his True Shooting Percentage is 4-5% lower than what those types of players regularly put up.

I'd also like to add that he can absolutely develop into a 2 way player because of his jump shot. Watch a few of the games vs the Lakers and you will see him hitting those shots. Then watch him earlier in the season when he looked absolutely clueless on offense. He has added a few post moves to go in his arsenal, a jump hook shot with his right hand as well.