Retro POY '06-07 (Voting Complete)

[Silver Bullet]

I think you guys are giving too much importance to winning the title.

People are just going to ignore you. On the other hand, I expected to hear this from quite a few Kobe fans with regards to this year. Things you really didn't hear them say in the 08-09 thread.

What does this have to do with Kobe ?

[Gongxi]

Don't play dumb, it's unbecoming.

[Silver Bullet]

:lol:

Don't play dumb, it's unbecoming.

umm... I don't have a problem with anybody voting for Nowitzki or Nash - I don't even have an effective argument against either.

And you don't have to be an ass.

[Gongxi]

Anyway, moving on...

The traditional disclaimer:

Just for posterity's sake, I'm going to say that throughout this thing I'm going mostly by on-court production, with games in December mattering as much as games in March, and games in the playoffs meaning only about 50% more than games in the regular season. Which is to say: if you play 20 playoff games and 82 regular season games, your regular season still accounts for roughly 2/3rds of where I'm placing you. Why? Because a 20 game sample size pales in comparison to 82 or, together, 102 games.

Also, I don't much care about how well your team did. It's basketball, not ping pong- one player can't dictate whether an entire team wins or loses. That said, the Gongxi top 5 for 2006-2007 are:

1- Kobe Bryant
2- Dirk Nowitzki
3- Tim Duncan
4- LeBron James
5- Kevin Garnett

Most everything I looked at had Dirk and Kobe resulting in a virtual tie. They both played so well that year. In the end, I had to give into the anti-hype/hate/not-sure-how-to-say it: although leading the Mavs to 67 wins was incredible, and really wasn't offset by losing in the first round...it was offset just enough to give Kobe the tiebreaker. Yes, yes, I know I've been talking about ignoring team successes and failures, but when it's a tossup, I had to go with Dirk's team wildly overachieving and then even more spectacularly underacheiving. In light of that, Kobe slips ahead.

Duncan had an amazingly efficient year and only got better as the games got more important, which is great but can't overcome the greater brilliance of Kobe and Dirk over the course of the whole season. LeBron had a fantastic year but...not better than those three. Garnett really had an off season for him- his lowest PER at the time since 01-02 indicates that. Which is to imply his name will be seen more- and probably higher- in my next few lists.

[semi-sentient]

I personally didn't rank Duncan that high just due to winning a title. He played well the entire season. He was the best defensive player, and had one of his most efficient seasons on offense, so I feel he's deserving.

Regarding KG, I felt he was rejuvinated playing with the Celtics and took on a much bigger leadership role than in the past. Maybe someone can come up with an obscure formula for weighing that so we can have yet another tacky advanced metric to justify it?

[Baller 24]

Tracy McGrady was very productive that season, led the Rockets to a 20-10 stretch without Yao, into the playoffs with a 50 win season. 6th in MVP voting, All-NBA second team, averaged 29/7/7/47% during a long stretch, and overall 25/6/7/43%, didn't have that good of a cast around him when Yao went out either. Just throwing a name out there besides the usual guys of Dirk, Duncan, LBJ, Kobe, and Nash. Dwight was still emerging, Yao was hurt despite having a very dominant season statistically, and Deron was solid, but still not good enough statistically.

Where would you rank him? 5th, 6th or even higher?

I'm still thinking about it, his impact was pretty significant, and with the way many are voting, it seems like Kobe and Dirk (two players that got knocked out in the first), are very favorable, but Mac's IMO definitely got an argument.

[tha_rock220]

I choose Duncan.

At that point in his career he was still a guy who could have lead 4 scrubs to 55 wins and into the 2nd round. There just wasn't another player in the league at that time who could do that.

[TrueLAfan]

Can’t go with LeBron in the top 4 here…just can’t. He’s right in the mix, of course. But he actually had one of his “weaker” regular seasons—that is in context of his greatness of course, but he didn’t shoot the ball well from the perimeter, was under 70% from the line, and had his worst assist/turnover ratio other than his first year. Those are minor statistical observations for the bigger point…he wasn’t the leader/player he would be later be. He simply hadn’t quite put it all together yet. I actually thought he was a little better in the two previous years. He had the great series against the Pistons…and then got hung out to dry against the Spurs. Personally, I think the way he got stood up in the Finals helped him become what he is today (you know, the best player in the league).

I think the “real” championship was in the Western conference semis. And I elevate Duncan for that series and his play overall in the playoffs. Which is why you have ding poor old Dirk…it figures that in the only really bad playoff year he had, he wins the MVP, which seems to tarnish it. You can’t say much bad about Kobe this year, either…I mean, he had a lot of garbage for teammates. I don’t know how much worse KG’s teammates were in Minnesota—or if they really were worse—but I’m very, very comfortable in saying they weren’t 10 games worse. So Kobe is in the top 5 and KG isn’t.

And that leaves Nash, who was awesome during the season, and great in the playoffs…really, his weak playoff series was against the Lakers. Against the Spurs, Nash was terrific—but not terrific enough. Still, the Suns played the Spurs better than any other team in the playoffs.

That top 4 is tough. I’ll take

1. TD
2. Nash
3. Kobe
4. Dirk
5. LeBron

in this case.

[Gongxi]

I choose Duncan.

At that point in his career he was still a guy who could have lead 4 scrubs to 55 wins and into the 2nd round. There just wasn't another player in the league at that time who could do that.

Maybe he could, but with Parker and Ginobili he didn't. Not that year.

[Dr Positivity]

That's a good point about how the Suns should practically put on a made the Finals level because they were definitely the 2nd closest to winning it. The more I think of it the more I remember how good Nash was that year. It was probably his best season but the last 2 MVPs took away from his shot at another.

[tha_rock220]

I choose Duncan.

At that point in his career he was still a guy who could have lead 4 scrubs to 55 wins and into the 2nd round. There just wasn't another player in the league at that time who could do that.

Maybe he could, but with Parker and Ginobili he didn't. Not that year.

He didn't have to yes, but I'm saying he still could have. Plus it was great that he didn't get all pissy that Parker played so well in the Finals and he didn't.

Anyway,

1. Duncan
2. Dirk
3. Nash
4. Kobe
5. LeBron

[Silver Bullet]

They did look like the better team in that series too - until the Robert Horry hip check.

And didn't the Spurs get out of jail, on a miracle three or something (I'm not sure, if I'm mixing up series or not)

[Gongxi]

Should a hip check or miracle three define who had the best season, though?

[Baller 24]

I think you're referring to the 2005 Finals S.B.

Anyways, it's

1) Duncan
2) Nash
3) Dirk
4) Bryant
5) James

[Silver Bullet]

Should a hip check or miracle three define who had the best season, though?

No. But we shouldn't let David Stern dictate who the best player was either.

[Silver Bullet]

I think you're referring to the 2005 Finals S.B.

Anyways, it's

1) Duncan
2) Nash
3) Dirk
4) Bryant
5) James

What team do you support ? You have 24 in your username but you hate Kobe - and I don't think you support the Suns but you've always had Stoudemire or Nash as your avy.

[Gongxi]

Should a hip check or miracle three define who had the best season, though?

No. But we shouldn't let David Stern dictate who the best player was either.

Well ignoring the conspiracist notions, my point was that just because someone's team wins a game- or four- doesn't mean that someone else isn't the best player. Outside of Nash's and Duncan's play in that series (and that it allowed a larger sample size to be taken of Duncan's season performance as it went on since he advanced), the outcome series shouldn't matter whatsoever. Hip check, three, miracle rebound, crazy block...doesn't matter. Or shouldn't, anyway.

[sp6r=underrated]

This is a preemptive strike. I know some Suns supporters are going to complain about the officiating in game 3. The officiating in game 4 was just as bad against SA.

The only grievance Suns fans have is legitimate, and it is a big one, is the suspensions in game 5.

[bastillon]

I've made a decision not to include players who didn't make the playoffs in any of my rankings. whether it's KAJ, Garnett or Olajuwon - they're out when they didn't make the playoffs. it's to hard for me to evaluate them and I don't even know how they would've responded to playing in the playoffs. I'm also going to dismiss every player who missed the postseason because of various reasons.

that being said, I think you people are seriously overlooking Nash.

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                 First    Pts Won    Pts Max    Share

1Dirk Nowitzki   83.0       1138.0       1290     0.882
2Steve Nash      44.0      1013.0       1290     0.785    
3Kobe Bryant      2.0       521.0       1290     0.404    
4Tim Duncan       0.0      286.0       1290     0.222    
5LeBron James     0.0      183.0       1290     0.142

RS was pretty much 2-man race with Nash and Nowitzki. they had 127 of 129 total first place votes.

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       raw +/-
Duncan   15.0
Dirk     12.4
Nash     11.2
Kobe      7.6
LeBron    9.6

Kobe, despite his gaudy boxscore stats, stands out as the least impactful player overall.

Dirk's stats in the playoffs
http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2006 ... stats.html

his teammates actually showed up, he was the one who failed. I wonder how much it has to do with the matchups. how can you regard Dirk's playoffs ? how would he play against different team ? it wasn't about Mavericks sucking, they lost to GSW in the RS too. I think there's a fairly big chance they'd win against everyone else (everyone but the Suns who had been threat year before without Amare so they'd take this series IMO, good matchup for them).

looks like Duncan's clearly the best, Kobe's the worst, Dirk's in the race with Nash and James for #2. any ideas why would Kobe be higher ? why would I put Duncan lower ? I'd like to hear arguments.

[semi-sentient]

I will never understand why Nash isn't dinged for his poor defense. Great offensive player, but you have to look at both ends of the floor.