Retro POY '05-06 (Voting Complete)

Silver Bullet · Post #41 » by **Silver Bullet** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:28 pm

It is so frustrating that people act like any of it was Kobe's fault. What could he have done when they were down what ? 31 at the half ? If he tries to take over, you call him a ballhog, if he tries to facilitate, everybody finds it bewildering.

I mean, you can praise KG for winning 32 games, but when Kobe wins 45 with a much inferior cast, takes his team to the playoffs in the toughest conference ever, and almost upsets a team, they had no chance taking even one game from. I mean, how can you blame him for relinquishing a 3-1 lead, he had no business getting in the first place. That team should've been 4-0 in 4 blowouts and out.

I personally consider the Lakers getting to the playoffs in the Western Conference that year, the greatest accomplishment by a single player in NBA history.

sp6r=underrated · Post #42 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:29 pm

Sedale Threatt · Post #43 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:33 pm

Silver Bullet wrote:I personally consider the Lakers getting to the playoffs in the Western Conference that year, the greatest accomplishment by a single player in NBA history.

Hyperbole much?

Gongxi · Post #44 » by **Gongxi** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:34 pm

Silver Bullet · Post #45 » by **Silver Bullet** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:35 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:Wow.

You guys totally underrate the East vs West gap - The two Nets teams and the 76ers wouldn't even make the playoffs from the West. A team like the 06 Heat would be first round fodder in the West.
That team had no business winning anything more than 30 games - winning 45, with just one and a half players and several negative player i.e. someone like Smush Parker who doesn't add anything to the team and probably should count for negative wins.

Prior to KG joining the Celtics, the 04 and 05 Pistons and 05 and 06 Heat are the only team's for the whole decade who'd even have a shot of getting out of the first round in the West.

Baller 24 · Post #46 » by **Baller 24** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:36 pm

Silver Bullet wrote:It is so frustrating that people act like any of it was Kobe's fault. What could he have done when they were down what ? 31 at the half ? If he tries to take over, you call him a ballhog, if he tries to facilitate, everybody finds it bewildering.

I mean, you can praise KG for winning 32 games, but when Kobe wins 45 with a much inferior cast, takes his team to the playoffs in the toughest conference ever, and almost upsets a team, they had no chance taking even one game from. I mean, how can you blame him for relinquishing a 3-1 lead, he had no business getting in the first place. That team should've been 4-0 in 4 blowouts and out.

I personally consider the Lakers getting to the playoffs in the Western Conference that year, the greatest accomplishment by a single player in NBA history.

1) I don't think it was the toughest conference ever .

2) Laker fans have often said those 45 wins came more towards the end of the season when most of the teams at the time were coasting, but still I give him props for him winning 45 wins, regardless I guess winning 45 wins with the squad he had is pretty good.

3) KG has no business being in this discussion, even though he was great---I think in '05 we're gonna see a lot of this (individually great, missed playoffs), he's lacking team success, and that's purely negative.

4) As for the Lakers being swept, I don't think so. They matched-up pretty well IIRC, I can at least see the team taking it to 5 for sure, maybe 6. Props to him for leading them to a 3-1 lead, but I definitely disagree with your take that it should have been a sweep with a 4-0 and I definitely disagree about the blowouts part, and it's good to remember that even though Odom was still a significant player, that also contributed and had some big games in the playoffs.

Baller 24 · Post #47 » by **Baller 24** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:38 pm

Silver Bullet wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:Wow.

You guys totally underrate the East vs West gap - The two Nets teams and the 76ers wouldn't even make the playoffs from the West. A team like the 06 Heat would be first round fodder in the West.
That team had no business winning anything more than 30 games - winning 45, with just one and a half players and several negative player i.e. someone like Smush Parker who doesn't add anything to the team and probably should count for negative wins.

Prior to KG joining the Celtics, the 04 and 05 Pistons and 05 and 06 Heat are the only team's for the whole decade who'd even have a shot of getting out of the first round in the West.

Oh come on, with Phil Jackson coaching that isn't going to happen, and even though his cast was bad, he still had a significant player in Odom, the 30 win team thing is completely out of context, and it just looks like you're saying that to make Kobe look better.

Silver Bullet · Post #48 » by **Silver Bullet** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:39 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
Silver Bullet wrote:I personally consider the Lakers getting to the playoffs in the Western Conference that year, the greatest accomplishment by a single player in NBA history.

Hyperbole much?

lol no. Not at all. I consider making the playoffs in the West for example a bigger accomplishment than winning the title from the East. Not a hyperbole.

Does anybody here think the Heat could've beaten the Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Pistons back to back to back. Not a chance.

Silver Bullet · Post #49 » by **Silver Bullet** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:41 pm

Baller 24 wrote:
Silver Bullet wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:Wow.

You guys totally underrate the East vs West gap - The two Nets teams and the 76ers wouldn't even make the playoffs from the West. A team like the 06 Heat would be first round fodder in the West.
That team had no business winning anything more than 30 games - winning 45, with just one and a half players and several negative player i.e. someone like Smush Parker who doesn't add anything to the team and probably should count for negative wins.

Prior to KG joining the Celtics, the 04 and 05 Pistons and 05 and 06 Heat are the only team's for the whole decade who'd even have a shot of getting out of the first round in the West.

Oh come on, with Phil Jackson coaching that isn't going to happen, and even though his cast was bad, he still had a significant player in Odom, the 30 win team thing is completely out of context, and it just looks like you're saying that to make Kobe look better.

What ?

Type out the supporting casts - so you can actually visualize the supporting cast.

Try it.

Kobe, Odom and 19 year old kid and a bunch of 2nd rounders.

EDIT: Name a conference tougher than 2000-2006 West

sp6r=underrated · Post #50 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:44 pm

Just one example of a player in a similar situation. David Robinson led the 96 Spurs to 59 wins and the 2nd round with Elliot, Avery, a moronic coach, and a lot of crap.

Sedale Threatt · Post #51 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:45 pm

Silver Bullet wrote:lol no. Not at all. I consider making the playoffs in the West for example a bigger accomplishment than winning the title from the East. Not a hyperbole.

Does anybody here think the Heat could've beaten the Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Pistons back to back to back. Not a chance.

That's all well and good, but consider what you're saying -- leading a bad team to the eight seed is the greatest achievement by a single player in NBA history?

It was outstanding, to be sure, but that's THE greatest? Are your standards really that low?

Hell, just in this season alone there's something that dwarfs that -- beasting like Jordan to lead a team back from a 2-0 deficit, and six minutes away from 3-0, to win the championship.

Earning the eighth seed with a terrible team, and losing in the first round is better than that? Seriously?

Besides, didn't the Heat beat the Pistons and Mavericks back-to-back -- without home court in either series, no less?

Silver Bullet · Post #52 » by **Silver Bullet** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:47 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:Just one example of a player in a similar situation. David Robinson led the 96 Spurs to 59 wins and the 2nd round with Elliot, Avery, a moronic coach, and a lot of crap.

in the 90's West. That's not an example. The 76er's won nearly 60 games in the 01 East- - they would be first round fodder in the West in 01.

Sedale Threatt · Post #53 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:49 pm

Three teams won more than 50 games in the West that year. Was it really THAT strong?

Silver Bullet · Post #54 » by **Silver Bullet** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:49 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
Silver Bullet wrote:lol no. Not at all. I consider making the playoffs in the West for example a bigger accomplishment than winning the title from the East. Not a hyperbole.

Does anybody here think the Heat could've beaten the Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Pistons back to back to back. Not a chance.

That's all well and good, but consider what you're saying -- leading a bad team to the eight seed is the greatest achievement by a single player in NBA history?

It was outstanding, to be sure, but that's THE greatest? Are your standards really that low?

Hell, just in this season alone there's something that dwarfs that -- beasting like Jordan to lead a team back from a 2-0 deficit, and six minutes away from 3-0, to win the championship.

Earning the eighth seed with a terrible team, and losing in the first round is better than that? Seriously?

Besides, didn't the Heat beat the Pistons and Mavericks back-to-back?

Wade is in the Eastern Conference now, he always has a better supporting cast than Kobe's 05 Cast - yet he always wins less games in the EAST.

Look it's a totally different dynamic -- when you have virtual byes the first two rounds - which was going on in the East from 2000 to 2008.

sp6r=underrated · Post #55 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:51 pm

You do realize that the conference you play in only determines 24 games of your schedule.

Every NBA team has to play each other 2 times. In a 30 team league, that means 58 games of your schedule is not determined by which conference you play in. Even with a totally lopsided conference, you would at most do 3-4 games better in the weaker conference.

Sedale Threatt · Post #56 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:54 pm

And in the West, you've got the 44-win Nuggets at No. 3; the 49-win Grizzlies at No. 5; the 47-win Clippers at No. 6; the 45-win Lakers at No. 7; and the 44-win Kings at No. 8.

Can that really be considered some sort of murderer's row? Better than the East, sure, but not exactly awe-inspiring.

Post #57 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:55 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:It was outstanding, to be sure, but that's THE greatest? Are your standards really that low?

To quote the famous Blame Rasho:

"People see what they want to see"

sp6r=underrated · Post #58 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:56 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:And in the West, you've got the 44-win Nuggets at No. 3; the 49-win Grizzlies at No. 5; the 47-win Clippers at No. 6; the 45-win Lakers at No. 7; and the 44-win Kings at No. 8.

Can that really be considered some sort of murderer's row? Better than the West, sure, but not exactly awe-inspiring.

Plus, the Suns only had one legit big man the entire season and he was injured for almost the entire series. So, the Suns couldn't even rebound.

Sedale Threatt · Post #59 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Sun May 2, 2010 6:59 pm

Yeah, I'm just not getting this conference tangent in the slightest.

Gongxi · Post #60 » by **Gongxi** » Sun May 2, 2010 7:01 pm

I think it's pretty clear that that tangent wasn't all that productive or thought-provoking. Now, keeping in mind I only have him 5th and barely above Nash, what could Garnett have done better in the regular season to get the Timberwolves into the playoffs that he didn't do? Or, more accurately, what is it that KG did two years later with the Celtics that made him our 07-08 winner that he didn't do in 05-06? Cause I guess that's keeping him off some ballots.