Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[garbagnani]

Come down, LOL. Bosh knows how to play D but doesn't so he can conserve energy / avoid fouls because he's not a great two-way player. Put him in a situation where he isn't option 1 and 2 on offense and his defense will thrive.

Bargs just doesn't understand defense / rebounding, big difference.

But it's all good, if Bosh goes I probably won't discuss him much if at all, but I will make a point to remind you about his D.

I am actually quite calm.

We were one of best offensive teams in league this season, and one of worst defensively. If Bosh is capable of playing better D (even at the expense of his offense) we should have seen it. We could have easily sacraficed a few points off the board if Bosh could have contributed on Defense at all. He plays pylon D to avoid fouls. I believe he will always play pylon D, because he needs to get his 20/10 to get his respect, to get his all star selection, hence staying on the floor will always be his priority.

[Indeed]

not to worry, Ripp is certain Bosh will be a breakout defender when he finally isnt being brought down by raptor scrubs.

Ripp isn't the only one that thinks that and I'll be sure to remind you when it happens.

what a revelation,

RIPP and REIGHNMAN LOVE BOSH, see absolutely no faults in him.

The same two guys hate Bargs with a passion, seeing none of his positives.

The same two guys pretty much hate on the entire organization in attempt to exonerate Bosh of any blame at all for our **** season, or the fact that all bosh has gotten us is **** seasons.

please RIPP, REIGNMAN REMIND ME WHEN BOSH BECOMES A "BREAKOUT" DEFENDER. LOL. It has about the same chance of happeneing as Bargs becoming a breakout rebounder

lol
+1 from the word of garbagnani

However, the chances are higher for Bosh to breakout in a game or two than Bargnani.
I think Bosh did a good job defending his man more than 5 times this year.
But Bargnani only have 2-3 exceptional rebounding days (depends on matchup as well).

[trick]

What's everyone's opinion on Scola? I'm personally surprised there has not been more talk about him coming back as part of the deal since a Scola/Bargs frontcourt could potentially work out very well, or is Amir that big of a piece in the Raps' future core?

[garbagnani]

lol
+1 from the word of garbagnani

However, the chances are higher for Bosh to breakout in a game or two than Bargnani.
I think Bosh did a good job defending his man more than 5 times this year.
But Bargnani only have 2-3 exceptional rebounding days (depends on matchup as well).

you are right, i exagerated. the odds of Bargs becoming an exeptional rebounder are even worse than Bosh becoming lonkdown defender.

[dagger]

Why is then unreasonable to to suggest he would not want Bargnani at 5 years 50 mil, when David Andersen is doing a similar job for 2.5 mil? .

You might as well put a sign on your back that says kick me.

Bargnani and Anderson are similar in the way a Porsche is to a Ford Focus. They are both cars, and one is a lot cheaper. It's like saying that DeMar is like Wade, only costs us $14 million less. What a bargain!

Bargnani is five years younger and beats Anderson in almost every category

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... yerId=4205

[jrsmith]

a Scola/Bargs frontcourt could potentially work out very well

Depends on what your definition of "very well" is. To me its not a 30-40 win team at best IF colangelo is successful in making some other patch moves that destroy the future. To each his own however.

[Kreamy]

Bosh and Turkoglu for Ariza, Battier, Jefferies, Hill, Andersen and both the Knicks' picks should be the deal. Nothing less, nothing more. That trade puts us in a position to rebuild right away and gives the Rockets a formidable roster/core of Bosh, Yao, Brooks, Martin, Scola, Hedo, Hayes, Lowry, Budinger, their pick this year and MLE to address whatever needs they might still have. Win/win for both sides.

Turk throws them into big time tax. I simply do not see this. Not at all. And even if it were possible, Ariza doesn't want to be here, he wants to be in the West, near his infant son.

You will not lose Turk in this and I wouldn't want to sacrifice the extra picks and/or futures we could get in this trade. Let MLSE buy out Turkuglu.

Well it wouldn't be Turk for pure expiring contracts. If Ariza is in the deal, essentially they'd be paying the difference between Turk's and Ariza's contract in any given year. I don't see the Raptors taking back long term contracts for Bosh anyway - if you break down the trade that way, it would be expirings for Bosh and the difference between Hedo's and Ariza's contracts.

[Reignman]

Come down, LOL. Bosh knows how to play D but doesn't so he can conserve energy / avoid fouls because he's not a great two-way player. Put him in a situation where he isn't option 1 and 2 on offense and his defense will thrive.

Bargs just doesn't understand defense / rebounding, big difference.

But it's all good, if Bosh goes I probably won't discuss him much if at all, but I will make a point to remind you about his D.

I am actually quite calm.

We were one of best offensive teams in league this season, and one of worst defensively. If Bosh is capable of playing better D (even at the expense of his offense) we should have seen it. We could have easily sacraficed a few points off the board if Bosh could have contributed on Defense at all. He plays pylon D to avoid fouls. I believe he will always play pylon D, because he needs to get his 20/10 to get his respect, to get his all star selection, hence staying on the floor will always be his priority.

Right, because Bosh is an offensive monster and carried our team on that end of the floor. You think we'd be a great offensive team if Bosh wasn't on it? Everyone else is a damn chucker and barely any of them get to the FT line.

Either way, back to the thread. Instead of the poo poo platter of role players coming back you try and unload Hedo on them.

The only thing of value we're getting from Houston are the picks and as long as those come our way I don't care for the rest. The question is would Houston still give us those picks if they took on Hedo? Since they seem to be all hot and bothered over Bosh I think they would.

[Indeed]

Come down, LOL. Bosh knows how to play D but doesn't so he can conserve energy / avoid fouls because he's not a great two-way player. Put him in a situation where he isn't option 1 and 2 on offense and his defense will thrive.

Bargs just doesn't understand defense / rebounding, big difference.

But it's all good, if Bosh goes I probably won't discuss him much if at all, but I will make a point to remind you about his D.

I am actually quite calm.

We were one of best offensive teams in league this season, and one of worst defensively. If Bosh is capable of playing better D (even at the expense of his offense) we should have seen it. We could have easily sacraficed a few points off the board if Bosh could have contributed on Defense at all. He plays pylon D to avoid fouls. I believe he will always play pylon D, because he needs to get his 20/10 to get his respect, to get his all star selection, hence staying on the floor will always be his priority.

I think it is a little unfair to blame on Bosh. I know he is the franchise of the team, but he can't stop people shooting from 3s. I still believe our problem is our perimeter defense.

Meanwhile, I still believe Bargnani can improve. His problem is experience and understanding his position, which is not his physical limit. Unlike Jose who is physically not quick enough will never become a good defender. Given Bargnani some time to learn would be our best interest.

[garbagnani]

Why is then unreasonable to to suggest he would not want Bargnani at 5 years 50 mil, when David Andersen is doing a similar job for 2.5 mil? .

You might as well put a sign on your back that says kick me.

Bargnani and Anderson are similar in the way a Porsche is to a Ford Focus. They are both cars, and one is a lot cheaper. It's like saying that DeMar is like Wade, only costs us $14 million less. What a bargain!

Bargnani is five years younger and beats Anderson in almost every category

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... yerId=4205

Ripp sees what he wants to see. selective vision is key to remaining Bias

[Ripp]

What's everyone's opinion on Scola? I'm personally surprised there has not been more talk about him coming back as part of the deal since a Scola/Bargs frontcourt could potentially work out very well, or is Amir that big of a piece in the Raps' future core?

Google, but I'm pretty sure Scola wants to play for a contender. Since he is a RFA, the only way he can go to the Raps is if he agrees to a S/T...something that he is very unlikely to do. He'd need to be routed to a 3rd party.

[trick]

a Scola/Bargs frontcourt could potentially work out very well

Depends on what your definition of "very well" is. To me its not a 30-40 win team at best IF colangelo is successful in making some other patch moves that destroy the future. To each his own however.

IMO, Scola doesn't need shots to put up numbers. He's like one of Noah/Varejao guys who hustle for the ball and are keen to getting garbage buckets. Also much like Noah/Varejao, he's a pesky defender AND can guard both the 4/5 spots. Scola's game and Bargs' game compliment each other very much.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

With this package of picks + expirings, I see Colangelo parlaying **some** of these picks and expirings, to build a winner now. However, BC should not trade the 2011 swap with NY, any of our picks, and the 2013 Houston pick. Everything else could be fair game.

I just can't see BC rebuilding. He'll use these expirings + picks to drastically accelerate the process. It's what I've come to expect.

Which is why I think BC might prefer the Andrew Bynum package with the Lakers. We might actually be able to extrapolate some value out of Hedo Turkoglu, by getting him to play better with Bynum.

[jrsmith]

a Scola/Bargs frontcourt could potentially work out very well

Depends on what your definition of "very well" is. To me its not a 30-40 win team at best IF colangelo is successful in making some other patch moves that destroy the future. To each his own however.

IMO, Scola doesn't need shots to put up numbers. He's like one of Noah/Varejao guys who hustle for the ball and are keen to getting garbage buckets. Also much like Noah/Varejao, he's a pesky defender AND can guard both the 4/5 spots. Scola's game and Bargs' game compliment each other very much.

Not saying they dont compliment each other. My game and some other kids game down the street compliment each other as well. That however doesnt mean anything when it comes to winning games.
As I said, I dont have the same view as yours when it comes to them "working out" very well. My concern is the toronto raptors. They would win 30-40 games best case scenario. Thats not very well IMO.

[Ripp]

Why is then unreasonable to to suggest he would not want Bargnani at 5 years 50 mil, when David Andersen is doing a similar job for 2.5 mil? .

You might as well put a sign on your back that says kick me.

Bargnani and Anderson are similar in the way a Porsche is to a Ford Focus. They are both cars, and one is a lot cheaper. It's like saying that DeMar is like Wade, only costs us $14 million less. What a bargain!

Bargnani is five years younger and beats Anderson in almost every category

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... yerId=4205

Your analogy is flawed, because I think Morey would view both Andersen and Bargnani as stopgaps. To continue with your analogy, my BMW (Yao) in in the shop, and I need a rental. I can either rent the Ford Focus (Andersen) or the Porsche (Bargs). Since Morey is a cheapskate (like any good GM should be), he is going for the Focus.

In any case, adjusted on a per 36 minute basis:

Code: Select all

Season    Age  Tm  G  GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
2009-10    24 TOR 80  80 2799 6.9 14.7 .470 1.6 4.2 .372 2.3 3.0 .774 1.4 5.0 6.3 1.2 0.3 1.4 1.5 2.8 17.7
2009-10    29 HOU 63  0 891 5.9 13.7 .432 1.1 3.2 .346 1.9 2.7 .687 2.2 6.2 8.4 1.8 0.6 0.5 1.5 4.8 14.8


The playing field becomes more level. Andersen less efficient, Bargnani a far inferior rebounder.

[Indeed]

a Scola/Bargs frontcourt could potentially work out very well

Depends on what your definition of "very well" is. To me its not a 30-40 win team at best IF colangelo is successful in making some other patch moves that destroy the future. To each his own however.

IMO, Scola doesn't need shots to put up numbers. He's like one of Noah/Varejao guys who hustle for the ball and are keen to getting garbage buckets. Also much like Noah/Varejao, he's a pesky defender AND can guard both the 4/5 spots. Scola's game and Bargs' game compliment each other very much.

Scola is not a very good defender, average at best, so it might not compliment Bargnani as much as Noah. And perhaps would best to have a bigger PF/C, so we can be more flexible with Amir and Bargnani in a rotation base.

[trick]

As I said, I dont have the same view as yours when it comes to them "working out" very well. My concern is the toronto raptors. As as I said they would win 30-40 games best case scenario.

A core of Lebron-Scola-Bargs could add in an extra 15+ wins to the 30-40 wins Scola/Bargs alone could provide, but we're not getting Lebron and seeing as how Bargs is a major piece of the core, you want to surround him with a personnel who will not only hold their own but also compliment his game.

The team does not start and end with the frontcourt...

[Ripp]

^--- Scola is a bad defender, and cannot play C if you want to win lots of games. He is "tough" and such, but not a good defender.

[dagger]

I like Scola but at this stage of his career and given our timeline, I'd rather take a pass.

[jrsmith]

As I said, I dont have the same view as yours when it comes to them "working out" very well. My concern is the toronto raptors. As as I said they would win 30-40 games best case scenario.

A core of Lebron-Scola-Bargs could add in an extra 15+ wins to the 30-40 wins Scola/Bargs alone could provide, but we're not getting Lebron and seeing as how Bargs is a major piece of the core, you want to surround him with a personnel who will not only hold their own but also compliment his game.

The team does not start and end with the frontcourt...

You need to take a better look at the situation and history of the toronto raptors, and how hard it is to get franchise changing players in this league in general. Because thats what this team would need for such a questionable frontcourt of bargnani and scola to ever even have a glimmer of hope of having success.

Back to reality.