Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[panthermark]

Houton is hard to figure out. I had typed a real long response, but I'll save it for later.

The biggest questions for Houston are:
#1 Yao's health. It is Yao, not Bosh, that makes them a contender.
#2 Do they...or can they...retain Scola if Bosh is on board? (Does Scola stay as back-up? Do they pay him $8M a year to be a back-up PF?)
#3 What can they afford...vs...what do they want to give up for Bosh?

The biggest questions for Bosh are:
#1 Yao's health. Without Yao...Houston isn't a contender. But...Houston is a great city...(I can't wait to get back in a few weeks).
#2 What does Houston give up to get him?
If Bosh is Ok being in Texas, Houston is a great place to end up.

The biggest questions for the Raptors are:
#1 What assets can the get back....but more importantly...how do you value those assets?

For instance:

Battier the player is worth far more to Houston (as a contender) than to Toronto. But Battier the expiring contract is a good asset for both teams.
What is Ariza worth?
What is the Knicks pick swap worth? If the Knicks stike out...how valuable does it become?
What are the Houston picks worth? If Yao is healthy, how worthless to they become? But is Yao isn't healthy, they become more valuable.

There are a million moving parts...this is going to be an interesting summer indeed.

[James_Raptors]

I don't want Scola (age) or Ariza (27+ mill left on his contract, already turned Toronto down, supposedly, underperformed last yr, imo).
They aren't trading us Brooks, Ming, Martin, (or Budinger imo), etc.

The most logical package is something along the lines of:
-Hill
-Jefferies (expiring)
-Battier (expiring & would not stay with us)
-Houston's pick this year
-Knicks's pick in 2012
-Houston's right to swap picks with the Knicks in 2011

So basically, SS's list, except replace Ariza with Battier.

[trick]

You need to take a better look at the situation and history of the toronto raptors, and how hard it is to get franchise changing players in this league in general. Because thats what this team would need for such a questionable frontcourt of bargnani and scola to ever even have a glimmer of hope of having success.

Back to reality.

Funny, that's because a frontcourt of Scola/Hayes proved alot of people wrong this season and at the same time helped the Rockets to a better record than the Raptors and their Bosh/Bargnani frontcourt.

But I see your point, if you're not a franchise player, we don't want you on the Raptors...

[trick]

I like Scola but at this stage of his career and given our timeline, I'd rather take a pass.

I don't want Scola (age) or Ariza (27+ mill left on his contract, already turned Toronto down, supposedly, underperformed last yr, imo).

A proper way to answer a question. Kudos for not being condenscending about it.

[jrsmith]

You need to take a better look at the situation and history of the toronto raptors, and how hard it is to get franchise changing players in this league in general. Because thats what this team would need for such a questionable frontcourt of bargnani and scola to ever even have a glimmer of hope of having success.

Back to reality.

Funny, that's because a frontcourt of Scola/Hayes proved alot of people wrong this season and at the same time helped the Rockets to a better record than the Raptors and their Bosh/Bargnani frontcourt.

But I see your point, if you're not a franchise player, we don't want you on the Raptors...

My point is you dont take a 28 year old player with no upside on a team that if Bosh doesnt return will be fighting for draft picks. When this player would have no effect except making you pick slightly higher in the lottery.

[orbesnet]

There seems little doubt around the NBA that financial issues will force the Raptors to trade Bosh.

Huh?

It was a mild winter in Canada so obviously our economy is hurting. Not enough snow to export, loss of revenue from the down igloo market, etc. Obviously that will affect the Toronto Raptors money situation.

[James_Raptors]

You need to take a better look at the situation and history of the toronto raptors, and how hard it is to get franchise changing players in this league in general. Because thats what this team would need for such a questionable frontcourt of bargnani and scola to ever even have a glimmer of hope of having success.

Back to reality.

Funny, that's because a frontcourt of Scola/Hayes proved alot of people wrong this season and at the same time helped the Rockets to a better record than the Raptors and their Bosh/Bargnani frontcourt.

But I see your point, if you're not a franchise player, we don't want you on the Raptors...

My point is you dont take a 28 year old player with no upside on a team that if Bosh doesnt return will be fighting for draft picks. When this player would have no effect except slightly making you pick higher in the lottery.

Exactly.
Unless we're getting someone like Bynum in return, and assuming he stays healthy, we're taking a couple of steps backward, gathering picks, and so on, before we even start thinking about adding "vets" and tooling up for the playoff run. We can't make the same mistake we made in 2006. The divison win was nice, but it was fool's gold on a faulty foundation of players. If we have a chance to right a wrong, we take it and run.

...Or, BC attempts to re-tool in the offseason with 49 new players and we start treading water, once again.

[Ripp]

^-- "Best roster on paper! 50 wins!"

[James_Raptors]

I like Scola but at this stage of his career and given our timeline, I'd rather take a pass.

I don't want Scola (age) or Ariza (27+ mill left on his contract, already turned Toronto down, supposedly, underperformed last yr, imo).

A proper way to answer a question. Kudos for not being condenscending about it.

I didn't realize you were a Rockets fan, but generally speaking I try not to belittle people.
It's just a sport messageboard and not serious business... Well, unless you're a Raptor fan and CB is tweeting, or twittering, or whatever it's called, and then it's GAME ON!

[Raps in 4]

Time for BC's friendly media to create articles that would plus this deal.

The more deals in work, bigger the bidding war, the better return we get for Bosh.

I for one want immediate return (impact players) and I'm sure BC wants the same.
Picks are ok to roll them up into today's players.
Keep one low draft, but hoping to draft well in couple of years will not fill MLSE pockets.

I am tired of a team on continuous rebuilding mode, we need some stability in the near future. Only stability gives time to the right players to gel.
Rebuild around defense this summer and hope that we get the right pieces this time.

We've never undertaken a proper rebuild. We've had a history of poor drafting, getting fleeced in trades, and signing expensive, long term quick-fix scrubs like Hedo. We've never experienced an OKC or Portland style rebuild.

[TheBat]

I wonder if a 3 team deal is possible where we send Hedo to Houston with Bosh and Jose along with Ariza back to LA. We'd get back Battier, picks and any other expirings to make it work.

[Raps in 4]

Come down, LOL. Bosh knows how to play D but doesn't so he can conserve energy / avoid fouls because he's not a great two-way player. Put him in a situation where he isn't option 1 and 2 on offense and his defense will thrive.

Bargs just doesn't understand defense / rebounding, big difference.

But it's all good, if Bosh goes I probably won't discuss him much if at all, but I will make a point to remind you about his D.

I am actually quite calm.

We were one of best offensive teams in league this season, and one of worst defensively. If Bosh is capable of playing better D (even at the expense of his offense) we should have seen it. We could have easily sacraficed a few points off the board if Bosh could have contributed on Defense at all.

+1

To say that Bosh chooses not to play D is a pretty ridiculous excuse.

[Baller_vision]

The Dream better not be there, he owes us for that $17 mil golden parachute we gave him.

CLassic i was jus thinking the same thing lol

[dagger]

Time for BC's friendly media to create articles that would plus this deal.

The more deals in work, bigger the bidding war, the better return we get for Bosh.

I for one want immediate return (impact players) and I'm sure BC wants the same.
Picks are ok to roll them up into today's players.
Keep one low draft, but hoping to draft well in couple of years will not fill MLSE pockets.

I am tired of a team on continuous rebuilding mode, we need some stability in the near future. Only stability gives time to the right players to gel.
Rebuild around defense this summer and hope that we get the right pieces this time.

We've never undertaken a proper rebuild. We've had a history of poor drafting, getting fleeced in trades, and signing expensive, long term quick-fix scrubs like Hedo.

Except for this: We've had at least one bona fide superstar since 1999. In 1999 we actually had two for a time, or at least two guys headed for superstardom. But when McGrady left, we were forced to begin to placate a single superstar rather than build coherently. We had to surround Vince ASAP or he'd leave. That cost us the fifth pick in 1999. Maybe it was worth it in the short term. Then we did the Hakeem thing. It cost us the 15th pick in 2002 and with the JYD, AD and Alvin contracts, hamstrung us cap wise. Of course, it didn't work. We drafted Araujo in 2004 because of the belief we had to fill the C position ASAP to placate Vince. We traded what became our 2007 pick in the hope Lamond Murray would complement Vince. Didn't work. (Remember VC wasn't even on board with drafting Bosh; he wanted us to trade that 2003 pick for veteran help).

We've spent a decade making moves to placate a superstar. Btu Carter wasn't going to wait for Bosh to reach stardom. The first JO trade, the second JO trade, the Hedo signing.

I've said this and I mean it. If there's a silver lining in Bosh leaving, it's that we can go about building the best team without regard to the pending free agency or impatience of a superstar. If we're lucky and that star comes out of the 2011 draft, we'll have a lot of young pieces in place already who will grow with that star. In other words, the developmental timeline will be right and we can use draft picks and cap space rationally, the way OKC has done, instead of using them to keep a top star from bolting.

[Ripp]

^-- Excellent post.

[Courtside]

I don't think BC should rule anything out at this point, including the involvement of Turkoglu in a deal.

Houston has made the mistake of going all in and betting everything on Bosh, by the looks of it. If they're faced with the possibility of him going to LA or Miami instead, Morey could well be the one who makes the deal include Turk to ensure they stay at the top of the heap.

Chris would have to keep his selection(s) private for this to be possible, but we'll have to wait for the playoffs to end before we know what other teams really do or don't think about Chris. I think CB wants to wait until after July 1 so he can be wined and dined and have sunshine blown up his rear, but Morey knows everything could be arranged well before the FA period starts if other teams are in the mix. By putting this out the way he did, he is making his overtures to Chris indirectly through the media - it was a risky move but he had to tip his hand to Chris well before the date. He realizes Chris wants some attention and decided to give it to him, but CB is still under contract with the Raptors - so Morey is essentially tampering with the deadline rules the way I see it.

[darth_federer]

^-- Excellent post.

What Dagger is essentially saying is that you shouldnt build around your superstar. I mean every team tries to build around its best player. And lol at BC rebuilding. Hes on the last year of his contract and hes the master of the quck fix. This team wont be bad (and they wont be bad enough to get a high lottery pick) for more than 2 years.

[douggood]

the houston trade is an opportunity for a quick rebuild.

DeRozan, jordan hill, weems, amir 13th and 14th pick assume we suck in 2011, a top of the lotto pick.

and whatever BC can parlay calderon, ariza into, either shorter contracts or other assets.

[dagger]

^-- Excellent post.

What Dagger is essentially saying is that you shouldnt build around your superstar. I mean every team tries to build around its best player. And lol at BC rebuilding. Hes on the last year of his contract and hes the master of the quck fix. This team wont be bad (and they wont be bad enough to get a high lottery pick) for more than 2 years.

No, i'm saying it's hard a lot of teams fail at it. And Bosh isn't the kind of superstar who can carry a bunch of Titos, or can get a guy like Shaq to say, trade me to Miami because Wade and South Beach are attractive to me. And you guys can't seem to be consistent in your criticism. If this team without Bosh is that bad, how don't we get a high lottery pick next season?

Either players like Bargnani are complete scrubs or they do have value. If the former, like you claim, is true, we're going to have a top 5 pick in 2011.

[GamePoint]

Isn't there anyway we can get both Battier and Jefferies in the deal? Both of them have big expirings attached to their names and, combined with Banks and Evans, would give us a boatload of expiring mone to play with, and possibly tease other teams struggling financially like New Orleans or Philly.

I also don't think Houston gives up Ariza. They committed to him long term, and with Bosh, Kmart, Brooks, and Yao, he doesn't have to take on that go-to scorer role he tried out before failing early in the year. He can focus on slashing, playing D, etc. With Ariza, they don't have to worry about that 3 spot for years, unlike with Battier who expires.