Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[ATLTimekeeper]

Forget his contract, basketball-wise Turkoglu is a horrific fit in Houston.
He needs the ball in his hands in order to be half-decent.
Is he going to ever get the ball on a team with Yao, Bosh, Brooks, K-Mart, etc.?

Of course not. So he'll pout, as he does, and kill the chemistry of a team that prides itself on chemistry.
Zero chance Houston takes back Turk. Calderon is the guy they will take back.
Makes way more sense.
Lowry would be a good fit in Toronto in return. Defends his position well but isn't completely useless offensively like Banks. Solid backup for Jack.

Calderon's not a bad hypothesis, but maybe Brooks instead of Lowry? The only reason I say this is because I can't see 1) Bosh putting up with Brooks/Martin taking 15 shots a game apiece and generally not looking for Bosh 2) Bosh is a big Jose supporter and they're good friends 3) Morey's going to have to pay Brooks more than Jose in a year anyway 4) BC will bite on the name and Morey could probably limit the other assets

[Ripp]

How would Turkoglu's contract be an albatross in Houston? They are apparently willing to spend a ton of money this summer, and the following year is more than likely a lockout year. That leaves them with two years of the new CBA with Turk under contract. They certainly seem willing to pay it if that write up is true. And that also means they will probably keep more of their assets than other possible Bosh deals. They will be better on the floor taking Turk back, and that will be Bosh's primary concern. Saying he'd veto a Houston deal if Turk is along for the ride is silly.

There is no PT for Turk in Houston. They've chosen their SG, Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin is an absolute pylon. You cannot have two pylons on the perimeter...somebody has to guard Lebron and Kobe. This means that Turk cannot start, so he comes off the bench as backup for say Ariza. He is too slow to guard SGs...so this means a maximum of 12-15 minutes a night for him. Who on God's green earth is stupid enough to take on a 10 million dollar backup SF being paid until 2014?

Has Morey given any indication to you of being a rube? Look at his books, they are clean as whistle.

In the very best case, you can do Jose+Bosh for Jeffries+Andersen+Battier, something like that. But if that happens, it means you get no picks or prospects back..

[dagger]

Come on dude, any intelligent fan/player/affiliate of a team cares about the financial healthiness of their team....pretending otherwise is just naive. Even if Bosh is too stupid to realize the implications of Turk's albatross contract on the Rockets books, his agents will.

Instead of making blanket statements, you have to look at the individual owners, their recent track record, and the marching orders they have given their staff. And Les Alexander is definitely well-heeled, and very eager to spend what it reasonably takes to field a true contender.

Do you think agents care about how much Mark Cuban or Paul Allen blows?

Really, think about it again.

I don't think they want Turk or have the contracts to make it work, but it's not about money, it's about need.

[Fairview4Life]

There is no PT for Turk in Houston. They've chosen their SG, Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin is an absolute pylon. You cannot have two pylons on the perimeter...somebody has to guard Lebron and Kobe. This means that Turk cannot start, so he comes off the bench as backup for say Ariza. He is too slow to guard SGs...so this means a maximum of 12-15 minutes a night for him. Who on God's green earth is stupid enough to take on a 10 million dollar backup SF being paid until 2014?

Has Morey given any indication to you of being a rube? Look at his books, they are clean as whistle.

In the very best case, you can do Jose+Bosh for Jeffries+Andersen+Battier, something like that. But if that happens, it means you get no picks or prospects back..

You've moved from Bosh vetoing the deal to Morey not even considering it, despite the fact this speculation is stemming from an interview with Morey. You're now saying that the people who actually listened to the interview were wrong in saying that it was obviously in reference to Turkoglu. I'll side with them for now, thanks. I'm still not even sure I'd want Turkoglu going in a Bosh deal. I'd rather get as much back as possible for Bosh alone and then see if Turk fits any better without him.

[dagger]

'd rather get as much back as possible for Bosh alone and then see if Turk fits any better without him.

+1

Why should we be so defensive about Turk. We're not a cap space team, and even if we were to become one, we're not a prime target for US free agents. If we were big time contenders, that might change, but not in our iteration. So why are people so wound up about him. For a lot of you, It's like he screwed your girl. I don't care about his contract. He either plays and contributes, in which case he can become more tradable on his own, or he screws up again and the team just sends him to Turkey to cool his heels. I don't think Hedo wants that kind of shame, and so I suspect he will shape up.

But in the end, it's MLSE's money, and the way things are, I doubt Jay or BC will have any hesitation to hold him accountable next season - in full public view.

[Ripp]

There is no PT for Turk in Houston. They've chosen their SG, Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin is an absolute pylon. You cannot have two pylons on the perimeter...somebody has to guard Lebron and Kobe. This means that Turk cannot start, so he comes off the bench as backup for say Ariza. He is too slow to guard SGs...so this means a maximum of 12-15 minutes a night for him. Who on God's green earth is stupid enough to take on a 10 million dollar backup SF being paid until 2014?

Has Morey given any indication to you of being a rube? Look at his books, they are clean as whistle.

In the very best case, you can do Jose+Bosh for Jeffries+Andersen+Battier, something like that. But if that happens, it means you get no picks or prospects back..

You've moved from Bosh vetoing the deal to Morey not even considering it, despite the fact this speculation is stemming from an interview with Morey. You're now saying that the people who actually listened to the interview were wrong in saying that it was obviously in reference to Turkoglu. I'll side with them for now, thanks. I'm still not even sure I'd want Turkoglu going in a Bosh deal. I'd rather get as much back as possible for Bosh alone and then see if Turk fits any better without him.

I've made two separate arguments. One suggesting that Bosh would veto it, and the second suggesting that Morey would, as well. Finish reading through that link, the vast majority are skeptical (since they know that Morey is a skinflint. Seriously, look at his dealmaking history. He never overpays, and is a tremendous cheapskate.)

I agree with your latter point, sending out Turk reduces the haul back. No point selling low on Turk, when his value may increase next year with a larger role on the offense.

[Hassassin]

Here is a question. Do you consider including Jack in the sign and trade scenario and try to milk more out of Houston?

[Contract Season]

Forget his contract, basketball-wise Turkoglu is a horrific fit in Houston.
He needs the ball in his hands in order to be half-decent.
Is he going to ever get the ball on a team with Yao, Bosh, Brooks, K-Mart, etc.?

Of course not. So he'll pout, as he does, and kill the chemistry of a team that prides itself on chemistry.
Zero chance Houston takes back Turk. Calderon is the guy they will take back.
Makes way more sense.
Lowry would be a good fit in Toronto in return. Defends his position well but isn't completely useless offensively like Banks. Solid backup for Jack.

If the Rockets are giving Lowry AND taking back Calderon, expect the return to be severely diminished.

Good point. But Jose's contract is a lot better to take on than Turkoglu's. It is shorter and for less money. He'd also be a better fit in Houston than Turk.
How high are the Rockets on Lowry?

Forget his contract, basketball-wise Turkoglu is a horrific fit in Houston.
He needs the ball in his hands in order to be half-decent.
Is he going to ever get the ball on a team with Yao, Bosh, Brooks, K-Mart, etc.?

Of course not. So he'll pout, as he does, and kill the chemistry of a team that prides itself on chemistry.
Zero chance Houston takes back Turk. Calderon is the guy they will take back.
Makes way more sense.
Lowry would be a good fit in Toronto in return. Defends his position well but isn't completely useless offensively like Banks. Solid backup for Jack.

Calderon's not a bad hypothesis, but maybe Brooks instead of Lowry? The only reason I say this is because I can't see 1) Bosh putting up with Brooks/Martin taking 15 shots a game apiece and generally not looking for Bosh 2) Bosh is a big Jose supporter and they're good friends 3) Morey's going to have to pay Brooks more than Jose in a year anyway 4) BC will bite on the name and Morey could probably limit the other assets

I can't see them parting with Brooks. He is a fan favourite and just won MIP. That makes more sense on paper for sure, but I don't see them doing it.
What about Jack, who is probably even better friends with Bosh going and Lowry coming back?
ie.
Bosh
Jack

Hill
Knicks 2012 pick
Rights to whoever the Rockets take at No. 14 in 2010
Lowry
Jeffries
Battier (to be bought out)
$3 million cash (for Battier buyout)

[J-Roc]

Do players on Houston, like Kevin Martin, want to stand around for 20sec while Bosh holds the ball and sizes up his man.

[dacrusha]

If he is so worried about injuries, why did he only sign a 3+1 deal with the Raptors?

To get in before the next CBA and because under the current CBA the max jumps %'s with years played at 7 and then 10 years, and lo and behold, Bosh/Lebron/Wade are now all 7 yer vets, just in time for the jump from 25% of BRI to 30% of BRI. They took a calculated risk to maximize their money, not limit it.

Problem is, he and his agent ****** up because he will now take a pay-cut next year instead of continuing on with his 10.5% raise.

[dagger]

Here is a question. Do you consider including Jack in the sign and trade scenario and try to milk more out of Houston?

I've thought of including Jack or Calderon in some sign and trade scenarios, but not necessarily with Houston. If Lowry comes across as greedy, Houston could whack him by including Jack. I'm more interested in Jack augmenting that haul if SAS were to make an offer that included George Hill, or less likely Tony Parker. Even Chicago could use Jack, I just can't think of how they can sweeten a package with real value assets. Miami and New York could use Jack, but don't have the goods.

I'm inclined to think Jack or Jose will move on their own.

[Fairview4Life]

If he is so worried about injuries, why did he only sign a 3+1 deal with the Raptors?

To get in before the next CBA and because under the current CBA the max jumps %'s with years played at 7 and then 10 years, and lo and behold, Bosh/Lebron/Wade are now all 7 yer vets, just in time for the jump from 25% of BRI to 30% of BRI. They took a calculated risk to maximize their money, not limit it.

Problem is, he and his agent ****** up because he will now take a pay-cut next year instead of continuing on with his 10.5% raise.

No he won't. He will be getting 30% of BRI next year and for 5 years after that. He had been at 25%. I'm not sure where you're getting the paycut idea from.

[supertruck97]

Good point. But Jose's contract is a lot better to take on than Turkoglu's. It is shorter and for less money. He'd also be a better fit in Houston than Turk.
How high are the Rockets on Lowry?

Some fans would rather him start than Brooks. That said, I think the front office sees him as a valuable young player, but best utilized as a top back-up PG.

I can't see them parting with Brooks. He is a fan favourite and just won MIP. That makes more sense on paper for sure, but I don't see them doing it.
What about Jack, who is probably even better friends with Bosh going and Lowry coming back?
ie.
Bosh
Jack

Hill
Knicks 2012 pick
Right to swap picks in 2013 with Knicks or Houston's 2013 pick
Lowry
Jeffries
Battier (to be bought out)
$3 million cash (for Battier buyout)

I don't hate that deal from a Rockets perspective. In fact, I think it works well for both teams. Might be some tweaking on which picks are going (I would prefer to take out the swap), but it's close enough for discussion.

Lowry would start over Caldy, and Jeffries is valuable expiring. I actually liked what I saw of Hill last year, and I think if he is given the minutes in T Dot, he could turn into an Oakley rebounder/enforcer type. I don't think his hands are good enough for him to be an offensive force, but he could be a double double pretty easily.

Would Toronto really buy out Battier though? I think he fits better with Houston's win-now approach than a rebuild in Toronto, but he is also a great glue player, so I question if you guys would really want to give him back like that. In a perfect world, the Rox would include Ariza instead of Battier, but due to his longer deal and the promise to let him stay closer to the West, I don't know if that's a possibility.

[GhostRaider2007]

Here is the (podcast) interview with D. Morey from which these highlights:

Morey was on 790 this morning and while most of the conversation was just back and forth banter and largely irrelevant, some interesting notes:

1) Team is likely to move from their draft position again as they like to maximize assets. Whether up or down or out is unclear.

2) Team will definitely pay luxury tax next year.

3) Team will definitely use the MLE this offseason. Edit: Also said that the entire MLE will be taxed.

4) Les has given Morey the go ahead to take on big contracts if need be to get a star player. He is all in and only asks that Morey "be smart" with the money, but has given him no limitations. The question was obviously a reference to Turkey Glue.

were garnered from if you want to listen to it for yourself.

Link: (fast forward to the 10:30 mark to find the highlights from above.)
http://www.790kbme.com/mediaplayer/?station=KBME-AM&action=ondemand&item=19122574&feed_name=MattAdam.xml

[Skeebs]

Here is a question. Do you consider including Jack in the sign and trade scenario and try to milk more out of Houston?

I've thought of including Jack or Calderon in some sign and trade scenarios, but not necessarily with Houston. If Lowry comes across as greedy, Houston could whack him by including Jack. I'm more interested in Jack augmenting that haul if SAS were to make an offer that included George Hill, or less likely Tony Parker. Even Chicago could use Jack, I just can't think of how they can sweeten a package with real value assets. Miami and New York could use Jack, but don't have the goods.

I'm inclined to think Jack or Jose will move on their own.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in a s&t only the player being signed and traded is allowed to be included in the deal. You would need to make two trades to make that happen in a sort of handshake deal or whatever.

[Ripp]

Can you explain what Rockets fans see in Lowry? He is a nice backup, a great defender, and good at running an offense. But his inability to shoot is the kiss of death, I think. I would never want to pay him big money for that reason alone.

[supertruck97]

We see exactly what you stated. He goes all-out every time down the floor. He's a stout defender, and like to push the pace.

He's limited by his inability to hit the 3, but there are players like Andre Miller who have done without the 3 and still produced well.

He's feisty and brings that feisty attitude to the 2nd unit. Kinda hard to really capture it. He's got a lot of the same fire that Carl Landry had and that made Landry a fan favorite as well. The hustle and desire.

[Ripp]

Link: (fast forward to the 10:30 mark to find the highlights from above.)
http://www.790kbme.com/mediaplayer/?station=KBME-AM&action=ondemand&item=19122574&feed_name=MattAdam.xml

Sweet, thanks. I'll listen to the entire thing..

[Indeed]

Here is a question. Do you consider including Jack in the sign and trade scenario and try to milk more out of Houston?

I've thought of including Jack or Calderon in some sign and trade scenarios, but not necessarily with Houston. If Lowry comes across as greedy, Houston could whack him by including Jack. I'm more interested in Jack augmenting that haul if SAS were to make an offer that included George Hill, or less likely Tony Parker. Even Chicago could use Jack, I just can't think of how they can sweeten a package with real value assets. Miami and New York could use Jack, but don't have the goods.

I'm inclined to think Jack or Jose will move on their own.

I would rather have Jack on a separate deal.
Since the league is short in PG, we can probably get a better return from him in a trade with Evans (or Jeffries) for other assets.

[dagger]

No he won't. He will be getting 30% of BRI next year and for 5 years after that. He had been at 25%. I'm not sure where you're getting the paycut idea from.

I believe 30% of the putative salary cap of $56.1 million which would make his new first year salary $16.83 million. His option provided for a salary next year of $17.15. I'm sure his agent didn't figure on a lower salary cap.

So there is a reduction of about $300,000. However, an extension can only be for three years max IIRC, and so that would leave him exposed to CBA and injury risks for two seasons beyond that, two seasons the new six year deal would cover.