Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[Courtside]

Anyway, that wasn't even my point. The point is that the CBA allows him to be vastly underpaid. Market rate for a player like Bosh for those 2 years was 16-17 mil. You got him for ~4 mil. Seven years of underpaid labor, then trying to attach bad contracts in a S/T imo leads bad karma for a franchise

I disagree.

First off - you make it sound like this was a Bosh specific problem. The playing field is completely level in the rookie scale contracts apply to all players. Lebron James, Yao Ming, Kevin Durant - these guys are all in exactly the same boat as Chris in terms of their rookie deals. If his CB's first 4 years are weighed against any other player's first 4 years - he wasn't underpaid one cent.

Secondly - if I go along with your premise - he was underpaid for only his 2nd~4th seasons. I think he got paid exactly what he earned as a rookie. The following 3 years he performed like other vets who were making max elsewhere. The past 3 seasons he has been paid the max and was not underpaid at all. I'm not going to debate if he's earned it or worth the same money as a guy like Lebron - it doesn't matter - the fact is that he was paid the maximum allowable under the CBA. To say he was underpaid is either not so subtle sophistry on your part, or laughable.

As for karma... that's got nothing to do with professional sports, but again - I'll play along. With the way that the way we lost TMac for almost nothing, then had Carter put the team into a situation where they got an awful return - then won the lottery in the worst draft ever - don't you think this team should have some good karma come around their way?

Unless CB's karma is more important than the Raptors karma

[Guy986]

One thing I must say about Kevin Martin though...it is surprising how terrible a defender he is. Yeah he is a bit skinny and frail, but he is very quick, athletic, and looks to have good length. It always cracks me up when you have guys with great physical tools who are terrible defenders (e.g., Rose.) At least a guy like Jose is physically limited, but tries very hard..

His biggest problem is that he doesn't give a ****. He's a lazy defender. Generally he looks disinterested in playing defense. He floats too darn much and doesn't fight hard over screens. You'd think he's daydreaming out there if you watch him play defense.

[Attonitus]

For posters to then turn around and propose outlandish trades in which Turk and Calderon get lumped with Bosh in a trade strikes at my basic sense of justice, fairness, and reciprocity....no decent human being should hope for such a thing. Obviously the ruleset the game is played under (i.e., the CBA) allows for such, no matter how distasteful this is to free-market oriented people, but there have to be limits, no matter what the rules say.

At least, this is my perspective.

This has to be one of the most ridiculas posts I have ever encountered on this board. You make it sounds like people will go to hell if they hope to get good value in a trade. It goes against your basic sense of justice? No decent human being should hope for a good trade? With all the horrible things in the world and your worried about fans wanting good trade value? Try using that energy on something important.

[J-Roc]

So based on all this Houston talk, it's safe to say Houston is willing to pay Bosh $130M. I wonder how many GM's out there actually want to be in the running for him. Forget the suspected teams who just happen to be able to afford it. How many really want to pony up? You'd be paying him "like" LeBron or Wade, but not exactly getting the same return.

[Hoopstarr]

No one seems to be asking why Morey is going after Bosh in the first place. He's supposed to be above this kind of stuff. Then again, he did trade for Martin so maybe he's not as smart as I think.

Who cares - that's for Rockets fans to worry about. If Bosh is in fact going to leave, then we want the most back in exchange for him and if that's Houston, great.

When you see posters on here arguing what Bosh wants or what he thinks about a deal, they expose the fact that they care more about him than they do about how the Raptors come out in the deal.

Right, because that would be logical conclusion when someone wonders why a team would want Bosh if they want to be a contender.

Ripp, good points in that response, but I don't buy that you can build a contender around multiple 8-10 FTA guys as the basis of an offense. We'll see. For a GM who is all about synergies gained largely from role players, it's seems like a big gamble to give them up and go with 3 guys who need the ball in their hands.

So based on all this Houston talk, it's safe to say Houston is willing to pay Bosh $130M. I wonder how many GM's out there actually want to be in the running for him. Forget the suspected teams who just happen to be able to afford it. How many really want to pony up? You'd be paying him "like" LeBron or Wade, but not exactly getting the same return.

That's what I'm wondering, especially since Morey is the one doing it. But apparently asking that question makes you a Bosh fanboy...

[Skeebs]

Are you comparing Gasol and Kobe(both in prime) to a 2nd year chris bosh and vince carter

those teams would be 8th seed at best anyways

I'm saying you'd be a fool to think Carter (an SG) and Bosh (a PF) wouldn't compliment each other's games, making each other better players. Vince is not as good as Kobe while Bosh and Pau are equal IMO, but regardless they have the talent and skill to excel in many situations.
And you said:

Bosh would not be in the all star game those year if vince was here

So don't try and re-word your argument only comparing that year when Vince was pouting and Chris was still developing.

pau gasol when he made the all star game wth kobe was 10x the player bosh was when he made his 1st and second all star

that team went all the way while the raps would be fighting for 8th in the east

[Ripp]

Right, because that would be logical conclusion when someone wonders why a team would want Bosh if they want to be a contender.

Ripp, good points in that response, but I don't buy that you can build a contender around multiple 8-10 FTA guys as the basis of an offense. We'll see. For a GM who is all about synergies gained largely from role players, it's seems like a big gamble to give them up and go with 3 guys who need the ball in their hands.

Well, there are two other additional ingredients for a championship team....defense, rebounding, etc. There was a bit of a discussion on the general boards about how it would work out, I sorta hashed out the additional synergies there. Basically, to summarize...Yao is really one of the last true Cs. You can check the records, but aside from his rookie season, the Rockets have been at worst the 6th best defense in the league. So for 7 straight seasons, top 6 defense. And this is with Yao missing a ton of games, not maturing into the player he later bacame, playing limited minutes, etc. And again, check the records, but they've put lots and lots of notorious pylons around Yao. Yet Yao has erased their mistakes and anchored on of the best defenses of the past decade.
So how does Bosh fit in? Well, he has anchored one of the best offenses of the the past 6 years. Aside from the 2008-2009 season, the Raps have been a top 10 offense for a very long time. The recipe for building a good offensive team is pretty simple...good shooters at the 1, 2 and 3, a C who is either an active husting big man like Amir, or a very skilled guy like Rasho. With all due respect to the other players on the current Raps team, none of them aside from possibly Jack can reliably create their own high-quality offense. So imagine if you send Bosh from the Raptors to the Rockets...at every position aside from SF, you've upgraded in offense. Aaron Brooks for example has DEEP 3 point range, and can create off the bounce. Kevin Martin can do pretty much anything offensively....shoot threes, go to the rack, come off of screens, draw fouls, etc.
So the point is, you get the best of both worlds....top 10 offense, and top 10 defense. This is enough to win a championship, even without LeBron.
Basically, if you cannot get LeBron, you collect other players who combined can have the same cumulative effect.

You should listen to Morey's interview...one of the other guys asked Morey basically, "So doesn't it look bad if a so-called elite player hasn't had much team success?" And then Morey responds, sort of emphasizing that there are other factors that might make this not happen, and I think he brought up Karl Malone, Dirk, etc.

So call him crazy, but Morey seems to believe you can win a championship next year with Bosh. It will be the biggest test of all this statistics stuff in basketball...all of the advanced stats indicate that Bosh is one of the top 10 best players in the league, and I'm sure Morey has even more refined models that he uses to analyze things.

So based on all this Houston talk, it's safe to say Houston is willing to pay Bosh $130M. I wonder how many GM's out there actually want to be in the running for him. Forget the suspected teams who just happen to be able to afford it. How many really want to pony up? You'd be paying him "like" LeBron or Wade, but not exactly getting the same return.

That's what I'm wondering, especially since Morey is the one doing it. But apparently asking that question makes you a Bosh fanboy...

Well, if CB ends up choosing the Rockets and they win a championship, or go to the finals, etc, we'll end up seeing how things turn out.
Truth be told...even w/o Bosh, the Rockets will be a pretty stacked team next year. If he is the piece that puts you over the edge, you've gotta do it, I think. Championship-contending teams cannot afford to pinch pennies. And the fact that the Rockets won 42 games in the West w/o the services of Yao or TMac for most of the season should suggest to you that if the do add Yao and Bosh next year, they will win a helluva lot of games.
Undoubtedly though, there will be a substantial portion of Raps fans rooting for failure. If Morey is right, and CB is this ginormous undervalued asset, as he seems to believe, then it is a huge indictment of Bryan Colangelo and the Raps as an organization. Nobody likes looking like a fool..

[Ripp]

Another additional point...Rick Adelman and the Rockets coaching staff in general is phenomenal. Yao imo had his best year (2008-2009) under Adelman. Carl Landry looked like an all-star before being traded to Sactown. Aaron Brooks, MIP. Adelman is a phenomenal teaching coach, great at getting every drop of talent out of players. Bosh simply has never had elite coaching in his professional life. With Team USA, yes, but not with the Raptors.

So I think there is quite a bit more to be tapped in CB. That is another aspect...the league seems to think that Bosh is worth a max, despite all the terrible coaching he has had. How good will he be with a halfway decent coach, not to talk of a future HOFer like Adelman?

I mean, look around the league. Look at how Crash and SJax responded to elite coaching. John Salmons, Bogut, and Brandon Jennings to Skiles. The reality is, elite coaching matters. A player will look mediocre with a crappy coach, and great with a good one.

So from the perspective of the Rockets and Morey, CB is statistically one of the top 10 players in the league, and probably has another level to go just from improved coaching alone. This makes pulling the trigger the obvious thing to do.

[supertruck97]

An interesting perspective, Ripp.

[Reignman]

So based on all this Houston talk, it's safe to say Houston is willing to pay Bosh $130M. I wonder how many GM's out there actually want to be in the running for him. Forget the suspected teams who just happen to be able to afford it. How many really want to pony up? You'd be paying him "like" LeBron or Wade, but not exactly getting the same return.

I think every owner would love to pay their employees minimum wage but we know that's not how it works in real life.

It's safe to say almost every team with capspace would pay Bosh his $130 mil and be done with it. They'd make their money back just with the buzz it would create.

[J-Roc]

All this stuff with adding Bosh and even Yao to the Rockets of this past season is fantasy stuff. Everyone would have to learn a new role. Bosh the iso scorer getting max money would take the majority of shots. So what does KMart do? Yao would have to settle into being a defensive stopper. They would have a good coach, but it would still probably take a season or two to figure it out.

[RocLaFamilia]

All this stuff with adding Bosh and even Yao to the Rockets of this past season is fantasy stuff. Everyone would have to learn a new role. Bosh the iso scorer getting max money would take the majority of shots. So what does KMart do? Yao would have to settle into being a defensive stopper. They would have a good coach, but it would still probably take a season or two to figure it out.

Yeah people seem not to understand that Bosh is not a run and gun offensive player or a good off the ball player. He rebounds very well and can iso well. His passing out of the block and holding onto the ball may not sit well with teammates who like to touch the ball in the possession. He may get more points if he crashes the boards, but K-Mart and Yao will take away shots from him.

[Indeed]

All this stuff with adding Bosh and even Yao to the Rockets of this past season is fantasy stuff. Everyone would have to learn a new role. Bosh the iso scorer getting max money would take the majority of shots. So what does KMart do? Yao would have to settle into being a defensive stopper. They would have a good coach, but it would still probably take a season or two to figure it out.

Yeah people seem not to understand that Bosh is not a run and gun offensive player or a good off the ball player. He rebounds very well and can iso well. His passing out of the block and holding onto the ball may not sit well with teammates who like to touch the ball in the possession. He may get more points if he crashes the boards, but K-Mart and Yao will take away shots from him.

Yea, KMart is an off-ball scorer, just like Bargnani, so he should be fine with his role.
Yao after all those injuries, he can't run that fast, and might have limited minutes, so giving him time to heal as a defensive stopper wouldn't hurt. And Yao is not a ball dominate player, he is willing to help the team even he is not getting touches.

[Courtside]

It's safe to say almost every team with capspace would pay Bosh his $130 mil and be done with it. They'd make their money back just with the buzz it would create.

As Raptor fans we want that to be true. As Chris Bosh fans, we want that to be true also.

It's one thing for us to throw ideas and opinions around, but it makes no sense whatsoever for anyone who is a fan of this team - or a fan of the player - to do or say things that can would undermine my first 2 statements. It makes even less sense to go above and beyond this forum to do or say things to people that are even more damaging. I mean, how small a person would you have to be to go out of your way to damage both the return to the Raptors and the earning potential of your favorite player, just because you caught a whiff of something that might put you in a position to puff out your chest a little and take shots at someone you have an issue with.

The fact is that Chris - by nature of his talent level and nature of this summer's FA market - should without hesitation be out there as the top FA choice for any team wanting to go from outsider to contender, or from contender to odds-on favorite. He was taken in the same class as Lebron James and Dwyane Wade and sees himself in the same level value wise and will do everything he can to prove his status as their equal. If the Raptors haven't helped him do this in wins then we will help move him to a team that might, but failing that we will help him be on the same level as his peers in terms of contract value - something extremely important when dealing with the egos of professional athletes.

If Houston is where he wants to go then let's get Chris his $130 mil and work for the best deal possible for all 3 parties, period.

[lucky777s]

So based on all this Houston talk, it's safe to say Houston is willing to pay Bosh $130M. I wonder how many GM's out there actually want to be in the running for him. Forget the suspected teams who just happen to be able to afford it. How many really want to pony up? You'd be paying him "like" LeBron or Wade, but not exactly getting the same return.

That is the great unknown. How many teams would give Bosh full Max money (6/130). I think at least 4 or 5.

I think it all happens fast too. GMs will know right away IF LeBron is moving and where. The it becomes who is MIA's first and second choice. That guy will commit fast which takes him and Wade off the list. You don't commit they move down the list.

If Bosh is still around then you get CHI, NY, HOU, and maybe DAL willing to pay full max for him rather than get shut out. Lakers too. Any over the cap team probably would since they will send back matching salaries.

You have to wonder how GMs rank the following guys given age, position, style, injury risk and cost:
Bosh
JoeJohnson - looking more likely he leaves
Amare - does he stay in PHX if they go deep? its an old team, but he could force trade later.
Boozer - cheapest option of the bunch

[J-Roc]

Those other teams might be willing to give Bosh the max, but right now the only team that seems to really want Bosh, and he's their #1 choice, is Houston. Heck, not even the Raps are all that convinced Bosh is the man.

All the other teams listed above may look at Bosh as someone to "settle" on. I wonder if that would affect Bosh's decision in any way.

[lucky777s]

Those other teams might be willing to give Bosh the max, but right now the only team that seems to really want Bosh, and he's their #1 choice, is Houston. Heck, not even the Raps are all that convinced Bosh is the man.

All the other teams listed above may look at Bosh as someone to "settle" on. I wonder if that would affect Bosh's decision in any way.

Once he makes the decision to move on I don't think he goes back. He will have sold himself on moving. And he has several nice options.

HOU is the only one to make him publicly their #!. Other teams still hold out hope for LBJ or Wade but that won't last long.

MIA may have Bosh as their #2 if they can't get LBJ to join Wade. That would all happen 2 minutes into free agency. LBJ hesitates or is unsure, Heat go to Bosh or whoever is 2. Same with CHI who have Wade at 1 and probably Bosh 2 (unless they think LBJ is even possible)

NY has the longest list based on wishful thinking. They go 1. LBJ 2. Wade 3. Bosh 4. JoeJohnson 5. Amare

[GhostRaider2007]

Found another little tidbit while digging through the forum at Clutchfans.com on another player that BC possibly has interest in from the Rockets. This is another summarizing of an interview this time from Richard Justice who is the man that wrote the "Rockets are preparing to woo Bosh" article from a couple days back. The interview was on Sports Radio 1560 am a couple days before he wrote the article that inspired the title of this thread:

Link:
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=29

Richard Justice spoke about this today on 1560 with John and Lance. Justice does speak with Morey on a regular bases so I do take his word on it. He did report that Morey was trying to acquire Ricky Rubio.

He stated that Morey will be there at Chris Bosh's house at 12:01AM to talk to him about wanting to come to Houston. He said that Morey and his team was already working on some videos for him to see. He went on to talk about how Houston probably has the best offer out there to make a SnT work. He talked about how Colangelo and Morey are really good friends and Bryan Colangelo has interest in Jordon Hill and Sergio Llull.

But Justice did make a great point that I've been trying to make. There's two parties you have to please. So if Morey can convince Bosh to come to Houston, you still have to please Toronto. Toronto doesn't want to lose him empty-handed. At least in Houston, Bosh can be the "man" here.

Don't know anything about Llull but there is atleast another possible name on the radar other than Jordan Hill that would possibly be included in a package young players, expirings, and first round picks for Bosh.

[PaperHoops]

Jeffries' expiring
Jordan Hill
Shane Battier
Houston's pick this year (whoever that is) - $1,371,200
Knicks's pick in 2012
Houston's right to swap picks with the Knicks in 2011


If Houston is willing to do this - we need to take this deal and run.

Shane Battier has been a leader in every sense of the word since college. He leads on the defensive side of the ball, and that's what we need the most. We have already proven we can score with any team in the league - we need to bring in guys with intangibles.

Jeffries has size, and is servicable, and Jordan Hill could still prove to have value.

I'd like Budinger - but we have Weems and Derozan and I can see Houston holding onto him, especially with inclusion of Battier.

But yeah, I'm all for these three players coming with the 3 picks.

[Los Manos]

Found another little tidbit while digging through the forum at Clutchfans.com on another player that BC possibly has interest in from the Rockets. This is another summarizing of an interview this time from Richard Justice who is the man that wrote the "Rockets are preparing to woo Bosh" article from a couple days back. The interview was on Sports Radio 1560 am a couple days before he wrote the article that inspired the title of this thread:

Link:
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=29

Richard Justice spoke about this today on 1560 with John and Lance. Justice does speak with Morey on a regular bases so I do take his word on it. He did report that Morey was trying to acquire Ricky Rubio.

He stated that Morey will be there at Chris Bosh's house at 12:01AM to talk to him about wanting to come to Houston. He said that Morey and his team was already working on some videos for him to see. He went on to talk about how Houston probably has the best offer out there to make a SnT work. He talked about how Colangelo and Morey are really good friends and Bryan Colangelo has interest in Jordon Hill and Sergio Llull.

But Justice did make a great point that I've been trying to make. There's two parties you have to please. So if Morey can convince Bosh to come to Houston, you still have to please Toronto. Toronto doesn't want to lose him empty-handed. At least in Houston, Bosh can be the "man" here.

Don't know anything about Llull but there is atleast another possible name on the radar other than Jordan Hill that would possibly be included in a package young players, expirings, and first round picks for Bosh.

If Bosh chooses Houston, I'll take one less draft pick if it means they give us Sergio Llull's rights. Llull can play backup minutes right now in the NBA (he actually will insist on it if he coms over next year) with potential to grow into a more significant role.

Morey paid over 2 million for the pick and believes the kid can be something special. I'm sure his ability to create from the pick and roll and very high shooting percentages have him on BC's radar. He has legit pg size, is an athlete and a tenacious defender, what's not to like? If we S&T with Houston, the deal has to include his rights.