Vinny Fired;Vinny+Gar+Pax (?!) Press Conference @ 11AM today

[PJ Brown]

K.C. Johnson on Chicago Tribune Live says he does not believe the presentation selling the Gar/Pax relationship. They asked if him if he believed Pax really didn't have the power to override Gar any longer. He laughed and deadpanned "No."

Well yeah, I think that's been apparent all along.

I mean, even he said during the conference that he is basically Jerry's right hand man, so naturally he'd have the voice to over-ride Gar whenever he pleases.

I don't know about anyone else, but I trust Paxson and I always have. He may not be the greatest basketball mind there is, but who is? All I know is that he is a Bulls lifer, and you know he has Bulls blood running through his veins. Until he makes a monumental mess up, I'll continue to support him.

It was good to see you back Paxson!

I don't know about always supporting him--I want results this offseason--but I'm glad to see Pax stay with the organization. He has something to offer. He makes reasonable basketball decisions.

[Three34]

Vinny disobeyed an order from Paxson, and quite significantly at that. Paxson lost his rag, and quite significantly at that. It all kicked off, Paxson got madder, the news got inevitably buried, it came out, Paxson took the blame, Vinny was fired for being a bit terrible at other stuff, Paxson didn't get fired because he isn't a bit terrible, and the world keeps on a-spinning. The end.

[IamSam]

No... it has just begun.

[Bullsville]

Hold on - is KC a shill for the team or not? You can't have it both ways.

I think we need to understand that what K.C. reports and what K.C. believes about what he writes is apparently not always the same thing.

In defense of K.C. he was kind of blindsided by the question. Just prior to it, he was actually talking up to Kaplan and the boys the official line, about how the transition is coming along as planned and that Gar stated he was the guy doing the coaching search and making decisions now… then they interrupted him point blank and asked if he really believed what was said about Pax not being able to overrule Gar. He gave the honest answer when it came to what he believed personally.

He then almost immediately followed that with "this kind of setup isn't at all uncommon in the NBA".

He mentioned MJ and his right-hand-man Rod Higgins specifically.

He mentioned how in the NBA, many times guys who have worked together for many years continue to work together in the kind of setup that Pax and Gar have.

And he also said something about how he can't see why people in Chicago make such a big deal out of the setup.

Otherwise he was just parroting the press conference, which is fine, that his job. It’s just a shame that when he writes his columns there is no one there that can interrupt in the same way to get his true feelings on what he is reporting. Because he has a unique inside perspective. And considering that perspective, if K.C. is not even buying what he is reporting I hardly think Bulls fans should be expected to take it on faith all the time either.

It seems that in some cases, whether or not people believe a reporter directly correlates to how closely what said reporter is reporting jives with what the person already thought before the reporter reported it.

[Rerisen]

He then almost immediately followed that with "this kind of setup isn't at all uncommon in the NBA".

He mentioned MJ and his right-hand-man Rod Higgins specifically.

He mentioned how in the NBA, many times guys who have worked together for many years continue to work together in the kind of setup that Pax and Gar have.

And he also said something about how he can't see why people in Chicago make such a big deal out of the setup.

I don't see what any of that has to do with the Bulls proclaiming Gar the top decision maker when he may not be and even the team's beat writer doesn't believe it.

It's not the arrangement people are objecting to, its the FO potentially not being honest about the arrangement.

Which was kind of the whole point of the amusement of the thread, that people did not believe everything that was being answered. Some objected to this, but the evidence you cited from K.C. would indicate people were right to be skeptical.

It seems that in some cases, whether or not people believe a reporter directly correlates to how closely what said reporter is reporting jives with what the person already thought before the reporter reported it.

Certainly. Judge each case by the evidence available though, and the evidence people had to take their position in the first place. Is there evidence in this case that maybe Gar really isn't as in charge as was stated? K.C. certainly seems to think so, as did the other panelists on the show, and many agree with them.

[Mr. Tibbs]

i just saw paxson's apology. I think it sucked. Like i thought it was awful and borderline disrespectful for one reason. He mentions del negro once in the beginning. He then rambles on about how much he loves the organization how much the bulls mean to him that he let down all these people.

Perhaps it was calculated perhaps it was not but dude, if you got in an physical altercation and you're trying to apologize, how about some words for the guy you fought with? I'm sorry but that's just part of being a man imo. Maybe he disrespected the bulls, maybe he disrespected the players, maybe he disrespected us with his actions. But he didn't push me, reinsdorf or benny the **** bull. He pushed vinny del negro. I say have some stones and really apologize to the direct person involved.

In the end, i guess we all want the bulls to do well so if paxson staying is what we need then so be it, but if nothing else, i really hope the league punishes him somehow. Not losing his job, but at least something to make it seem like this apology isn't the only consequence of him being completely unprofessional and conducting in a manner detrimental to the team. At the very least, the man deserves a fine.

[SolidSnake]

I doubt the Bulls will give Vinny a glowing referral on his next job.

[kulaz3000]

i just saw paxson's apology. I think it sucked. Like i thought it was awful and borderline disrespectful for one reason. He mentions del negro once in the beginning. He then rambles on about how much he loves the organization how much the bulls mean to him that he let down all these people.

Perhaps it was calculated perhaps it was not but dude, if you got in an physical altercation and you're trying to apologize, how about some words for the guy you fought with? I'm sorry but that's just part of being a man imo. Maybe he disrespected the bulls, maybe he disrespected the players, maybe he disrespected us with his actions. But he didn't push me, reinsdorf or benny the **** bull. He pushed vinny del negro. I say have some stones and really apologize to the direct person involved.

In the end, i guess we all want the bulls to do well so if paxson staying is what we need then so be it, but if nothing else, i really hope the league punishes him somehow. Not losing his job, but at least something to make it seem like this apology isn't the only consequence of him being completely unprofessional and conducting in a manner detrimental to the team. At the very least, the man deserves a fine.

Maybe the underlying point is that he doesn't give a rats ass about whether he pushed Vinny or not, and the only reason why he is apologizing is the fact those types of actions shouldn't be condoned in a professional setting.

I actually thought Paxson's apology was quite frank and honest, and I believed him when he emphasized the fact that he felt bad about the bad light he set upon the franchise above anything else. He felt he was standing up to his player, Noah in this instance, and I bet he would still go at Vinny just not in that physical manner. So I don't think he feels any remorse for the fact that he had an altercation with Vinny, but more-so how he went about it.

[DuckIII]

Why do we care if Paxson has pull behind the scenes? Or rather, why would we not want that again? Does Gar have a Midas touch that I'm not aware of?

I hope its one big fat lie and that Gar can't tie his shoes without permission.

[coldfish]

Changing topics, one interesting thing I have read was that the team was holding Derrick's defensive development against VDN. That may be true, but its a hard pill to swallow. When you watch him, Derrick simply has horrible defensive instincts. I don't know why that is, but I would love to know what the team has in mind for how to improve upon that.

[coldfish]

Why do we care if Paxson has pull behind the scenes? Or rather, why would we not want that again? Does Gar have a Midas touch that I'm not aware of?

I hope its one big fat lie and that Gar can't tie his shoes without permission.

+ Duck. When I hear Paxson talk, he always sounds rational and intelligent, even if I disagree with certain things. Gar comes across as a complete boob. I don't know the real behind the scenes stories, but based on what I have seen, I would rather have Paxson as true GM than Gar.

[DuckIII]

Changing topics, one interesting thing I have read was that the team was holding Derrick's defensive development against VDN. That may be true, but its a hard pill to swallow. When you watch him, Derrick simply has horrible defensive instincts.

+ coldfish right back at you.

I don't know why that is, but I would love to know what the team has in mind for how to improve upon that.

Oh, you know the answer to that. As you've described many times before:

1. Hire new coach.
2 ????????
3. Schedule DPOY press conference.

[j-smooth]

I think Rose's problems with defense stem from commitment and accountability. He doesn't seem all that interested in playing defense. It isn't until the end of games where he "locks down". If he can impose his will on oppenents on the defensive end the way he does on the offensive end then he'll make that jump to superstardom.

[BULLHITTER]

I doubt the Bulls will give Vinny a glowing referral on his next job.

why? they certainly weren't damaged in any way by his coaching. was the team "expected" to win anything"?

if anything, not giving VDN a good referral makes THEM look like asses, given his total lack of experience at hiring time. also, losing 3 heavy rotational players AND weathering the injuries from this last season would seem to contradict any negatives they'd want to put solely on vinny, given he got them to the playoffs twice with NO experience.

the bulls best bet is to let the sleeping dog lie, lest the stench of their unprofessionalism, unpreparedness, and lack of direction as an organization be called into question.

re: forman; i firmly believe forman is in place to accept all the media arrows paxson doesn't have the patience to deal with any more; he's definitely the "shill" some speak about in reference to the bulls organizational hierarchy. i pretty much dismiss everything he says or at best try to decipher it as it relates to whatever "the plan" turns out to be.

[sco]

Not to go off on a tangent, but I think Rose's defense improved from terrible to almost average this year. As an excuse, I am of the mind that it is almost impossible for NBA players to be highly effective on both ends of the court due the combination of energy required and the risk of picking up fouls. This team was so offensively deficient last year, Rose needed to expend most of his energy on the offensive end. I hope by adding another scorer of two, he can become a more balanced contributor.

[TechMansoor]

I doubt the Bulls will give Vinny a glowing referral on his next job.

why? they certainly weren't damaged in any way by his coaching. was the team "expected" to win anything"?

if anything, not giving VDN a good referral makes THEM look like asses, given his total lack of experience at hiring time. also, losing 3 heavy rotational players AND weathering the injuries from this last season would seem to contradict any negatives they'd want to put solely on vinny, given he got them to the playoffs twice with NO experience.

the bulls best bet is to let the sleeping dog lie, lest the stench of their unprofessionalism, unpreparedness, and lack of direction as an organization be called into question.

re: forman; i firmly believe forman is in place to accept all the media arrows paxson doesn't have the patience to deal with any more; he's definitely the "shill" some speak about in reference to the bulls organizational hierarchy. i pretty much dismiss everything he says or at best try to decipher it as it relates to whatever "the plan" turns out to be.

Thank you bullhitter for completely summing up how I feel!!! This post is irrefutable indeed! In those interviews they literally gave no clear explanation as to why VDN was fired or even should be fired especially if John Paxson said the bulls failure was his fault....I've been saying this since the beginning of the season...

Its just in certain instances you have intelligent people who deduce the game numerically and statistically and you have people who subjectively say stuff like VDN ran bad plays and who ultimately have a passion for the game which is fine...But to say VDN ultimately did a bad job and deserved firing via the numbers, what he had to coach with, losing major contributors to the team, yet still making the playoffs and winding up with a winning record in his tenure here while having NO experience, is just mind boggling.......

[Professor Frink]

K.C. Johnson on Chicago Tribune Live says he does not believe the presentation selling the Gar/Pax relationship. They asked if him if he believed Pax really didn't have the power to override Gar any longer. He laughed and deadpanned "No."

Well yeah, I think that's been apparent all along.

It wasn't apparent to a few posters here who need 100% indisputable facts to make the slightest inference.

The problem is you guys had no facts, zero, to base anything on, just your long standing prejudices. You still don't have facts. KC Johnson saying he thinks Pax can overrule Gar is a fact? Really? Has the meaning of that word changed suddenly?

[waffle]

I

sure

do

hope

they

have

an

actual
















plan

[lu9]

I

sure

do

hope

they

have

an

actual
















plan

Call me an optimist if you'd like but I think they do have a plan. I think they have a well thought out 2010 plan and this whole Vinny saga (short of March 30th) was part of it. The counter is why not sign VDN to a two year deal back in 08? Well I don't have an answer for that.. BUT I do have faith in the FO 2010 plan. They did a heck of a job of mixing talent and cap space for this moment.

[waffle]

I would be MOST disappointed if they didn't. They sure have had enough time to prepare, eh?

I
sure
do
hope
you
are

right