Retro Player of the Year Project

[An Unbiased Fan]

Sorry, but shooting 38.5% for the playoffs and 44% on TS knocks KG WAY down as compared to Kobe. And how does Kobe pale in every other category when he avrage 2.1 bpg to KG's 0.8, and 1.6 spg to KG's 1.3? KG had more assists & rebounds, but that doesn't negate his horrible shooting.

5 assists and 6 rebounds more don't negate scoring couple of points. got it.

you still haven't answered the Shaq part. Garnett isn't shooting 40% if he has 40/20 threat in the low post. Blazers absolutely harassed KG, Kobe was enjoying much more room because of Shaq.

If, If, If.

Funny how a 2nd option outscored a 1st option. What does that say about KG that year.

Kobe shot 11% better on TS than KG, that's a bit more than "scoring couple of points".

[Baller 24]

Unbiased fan, Garnett's RS is flat out better and greater than Bryant's. That and the fact that he was 2nd in MVP voting helps him. That team also lost a very solid Blazers team (which would later go on to force LA to a game 7, and ALMOST beat them). I don't think anyone expected the Wolves to beat the Blazers, but Garnett's RS is unquestionably considered top 5, IMO.

[NO-KG-AI]

It's going to be hilarious if Kobe makes the top 5 for 1999-2000. I'm sure Silver Bullet already has him penciled in at top 3.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't understand why we are letting a troll account vote anyway. Unbiased FAn is definitely that, and I'm almost positive he's JohnGaltLSD anyway.

SB is bad enough, but at least he's not a formerly banned poster.

[Baller 24]

Wait I remember JohnGalt, didn't he return as someone else about a year ago?

[An Unbiased Fan]

Unbiased fan, Garnett's RS is flat out better and greater than Bryant's. That and the fact that he was 2nd in MVP voting helps him. That team also lost a very solid Blazers team (which would later go on to force LA to a game 7, and ALMOST beat them). I don't think anyone expected the Wolves to beat the Blazers, but Garnett's RS is unquestionably considered top 5, IMO.

The original post I was replying to referenced the PS averages of Shaq, Malone, KG, and Kobe against Portland. It wasn't about the RS.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I don't understand why we are letting a troll account vote anyway. Unbiased FAn is definitely that, and I'm almost positive he's JohnGaltLSD anyway.

SB is bad enough, but at least he's not a formerly banned poster.

Whatever bro. I have always treated people with respect on the boards, don't namecall, I actually post reasoning for my opinions, and don't respond to half the crap I get on a daily basis, yet you call me a troll???

Did you even read what I was responding to?

[sp6r=underrated]

I don't understand why we are letting a troll account vote anyway. Unbiased FAn is definitely that, and I'm almost positive he's JohnGaltLSD anyway.

SB is bad enough, but at least he's not a formerly banned poster.

I have to disagree with your attack on An Unbiased Fan.
For there is nothing he has written which is evidence that he is a troll.

Just because you strongly disagree with what he writes, doesn't mean he is a troll.
Because we all have minority opinions and that is what makes realgm great.

Can't you understand that the discussions are interesting because of the minority opinions.
All of us enjoy back and forth dialogue that is caused by someone with a different opinion.
Not everyone in the thread has the ability to apply logic up towards your standards.

Voting rights should not be decided just because you don't like an opinion.
Overall, conversation would suffer.
Thus, people should be allowed to vote if they will defend their ballot.
Everyone who has voted has followed this rule.

Welcome minority viewpoints.
Hey, we all have strange views.
You do as well

Now is not time for negativity.
Open your mind to new arguments about NBA players.
That will allow you to learn and grow as a fan.

As of now the conversation has been great

That is because of the minority viewpoints of people like AUF.
Really I hope that continues to the end of the project.
Overall, the threads will benefit.
Let not your mind be worried by the post of AUF
Let instead your mind be open to different viewpoints.

[NO-KG-AI]

Eh, I guess it's kinda like real life voting. Even when you have something so clearly unanimous, you'll always get that one dude that will come out and vote Deron Williams as rookie of the year because he is biased, and ruin the numbers.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I haven't had one person question any of my voting ballots yet. Can you point me to a year where I was biased? I think I've been very fair throughout this entire project.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I'm going to vouch for An Unbiased Fan. Despite the extremely oxymoronic name, he does put a lot of thought into his posts, and does not respond rudely when called out (I know I've called him out a few times before).

If he cares that much to stick to his guns, tries to explain his POV, and doesn't get upset when people disagree, I can respect that. Maybe not agree with him, but respect him

[NO-KG-AI]

I kind of misinterpreted the whole thing you were arguing for anyway.

And you've been well behaved in this project anyway, so I'll ease up on my accusations.

And I apologize for taking out my SB frustrations on you.

[semi-sentient]

Good responses WRT Kobe's defense. I think this was actually his best season as a defender. I guess Kobe was supposed to shut down both Kidd and Penny, and shut down Miller with a busted ankle? That's a little too much to ask, maybe?

I'll need to go back and watch some tape, but if memory serves, Kobe was almost exclusively on Kidd, and these were his numbers:

10 PTS (.463 TS%), 7.6 REB, 8.6 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.2 BLK, 3.6 TOV

Kobe, on the other hand, put up:

21.0 PTS (.524 TS%), 3.8 REB, 3.4 AST, 2.0 STL, 1.4 BLK, 3.0 TOV

Oh yeah, and he hit the game-winning shot in Game 2 with 2.6 seconds left to give the Lakers a 1-point victory. That shot could have very well changed the momentum of the series had he missed.

That's pretty much overlooking what Kobe did to the Kings as well:

27.8 PTS (.557 TS%), 4.4 REB, 3.6 AST, 1.2 STL, 0.6 BLK, 2.8 TOV


Also, I don't know how people can not look at what Kobe did against the Blazers and not hold him in high regard. He had a "game saving" block in Game 4 when Shaq bit on a Sabonis head fake, giving him an open lane to the basket. Kobe materializes out of nowhere and blocks him.

He also played well in Game 7, and did his part in that epic 4th quarter comeback (although Shaq was the main driving force in the 4th, despite being a no show in the first 3 quarters). Lest we forget, everyone considered this the real NBA Finals. Here's his numbers for that series:

20.4 PTS (.552 TS%), 4.9 REB, 5.9 AST, 1.6 STL, 2.1 BLK, 2.9 TOV

And Kobe was being guarded by Pippen, who while past his defensive prime, was still a fantastic all-league defender.

And how about that epic Game 4 performance in the NBA Finals after Shaq fouled out towards the end of regulation?

Yeah, Kobe sucked pretty bad in Games 5 & 6, but let's not completely ignore what he did prior to his injury. He had a pretty solid post-season, which isn't something that can be said for quite a few other candidates I listed.

I'm not saying that Kobe deserves a place just yet, but he does deserves some consideration. Still, I find it hard to believe he'll be any higher than 5th even if people do take everything into account.

[NO-KG-AI]

Kobe was an outstanding defender back then. Cat quick, smart beyond his years, and really aggressive.

It'll be hard for his defense to raise him super high because of the amount of big men playing stellar D that year.

Zo was a beast, Shaq actually put his effort forth that year, KG was up there, Duncan was great before he went down for the playoffs, Drob led the league in D-rating, etc.

[semi-sentient]

What are people's thoughts on Webber's defense?

We need to go ahead and get that 99-00 thread rolling... lol. I'd encourage everyone to copy/paste their responses in that thread since we're already getting into things.

[NO-KG-AI]

And props for the awesome website Semi-Sentient, but as a KG homer, you should switch KG to a Wolves Jersey for his Wolves year win.

Preferably this one:



PS: I miss when your name was STFU.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I kind of misinterpreted the whole thing you were arguing for anyway.

And you've been well behaved in this project anyway, so I'll ease up on my accusations.

And I apologize for taking out my SB frustrations on you.

It's cool. No harm, no foul.

[Silver Bullet]

I don't understand why we are letting a troll account vote anyway. Unbiased FAn is definitely that, and I'm almost positive he's JohnGaltLSD anyway.

SB is bad enough, but at least he's not a formerly banned poster.

Whatever bro. I have always treated people with respect on the boards, don't namecall, I actually post reasoning for my opinions, and don't respond to half the crap I get on a daily basis, yet you call me a troll???

Did you even read what I was responding to?

Edited. There was some tension, people got over it, no need for anything else that could fuel the fire. ~Doc

[semi-sentient]

And props for the awesome website Semi-Sentient, but as a KG homer, you should switch KG to a Wolves Jersey for his Wolves year win.

Yeah, I've got to figure out how to use different images for players. Right now everything is data driven, so I can only use one photo per player, but I might work on something a little later to get that kind worked out.

PS: I miss when your name was STFU.

lol... I'm surprised anyone remembers that. I changed my name because I wanted to try to be less of a "flamer" in my posts, but I guess that's just part of my DNA. Sometimes I get downright nasty, but I'm working on it.

[Dr Positivity]

Where's ze 00 thread?