Where does Kobe rank All-Time with another Repeat?

[Dez Bryant]

How on earth did Duncan manage to get 4 titles with Kobe being so awesome? People(Kobe Fans) will of course downplay this...

Why would anyone downplay TD's 4 rings? He's a Top 7-9 player all-time.

Kobe would still have 5 rings to TD's 4
Kobe will still have 2 repeats to Duncan's 0
Kobe would still have 7 Finals to TD's 4
Kobe would still be have back 2 back Finals MVPs

The point is that Kobe would have a legit case.

Rasho just convinced me Duncan is above Kobe.

your comparison is meaningless, Kobe never won or did anything without all NBA players. Duncan won 4 rings with less help than anyone in NBA history, this is a fact.

U are definitely NOT unbiased

[kasino]

that all adds u to
4× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009)
NBA Finals MVP (2009)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
12× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2010)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
8× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2010)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
8× All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2010)
2× All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009)

First off, Kobe finished 12th in the MVP voting in 2000, so your argument is getting as petty as 'Kobe is the 10th best player in the league that year while Gasol is only the 12th best last year.' Yes, 2000 Kobe is better than Gasol, but not by any great margin that you seem to speak of. During that year, Kobe was just an allstar, not an all-time player like we are considering him now.

It's nice to list those accomplishments, but that doesn't explain how winning one more ring will put Kobe in equal company or surpass Duncan and Shaq. I have yet to hear any compelling argument.

do you mean the year Shaq dominated and Kobe making the All-NBA 2nd Team and All-NBA Defensive Team. Winning a championship in his 4th year compared to Gasol's 9th season pretty much his prime.

[kasino]

How on earth did Duncan manage to get 4 titles with Kobe being so awesome? People(Kobe Fans) will of course downplay this...

Why would anyone downplay TD's 4 rings? He's a Top 7-9 player all-time.

Kobe would still have 5 rings to TD's 4
Kobe will still have 2 repeats to Duncan's 0
Kobe would still have 7 Finals to TD's 4
Kobe would still be have back 2 back Finals MVPs

The point is that Kobe would have a legit case.

Rasho just convinced me Duncan is above Kobe.

your comparison is meaningless, Kobe never won or did anything without all NBA players. Duncan won 4 rings with less help than anyone in NBA history, this is a fact.

U are definitely NOT unbiased

so why isn't duncan #1 less help than MJ had as well.

[Wile E. Coyote]

And you seem to think that being on a winning team somehow makes you a better player. It doesn't.

So, if Jordan's teams went 30-52 every year, he'd still be GOAT?

Do you think Kobe's teams have won over the years despite his presence? Like I've posted before, if he wins the title this year, he'd be the third player in NBA history to win a title 10+ years apart and average 35+ minutes. The other two are Russell and Jabbar. Do you think that's just some kind of fluke?

[Wile E. Coyote]

If player A plays for 10 years at a 9/10 rating (yah I made a rating scale up call your lawyer)

Player B plays for 15 years at a 8/10 rating. I'm sorry Player A is/was the better player and longevity isn't going to change anything.

What if Player A won two titles and Player B won six. Both were best player on their teams during their careers. Who's the better player?

[An Unbiased Fan]

How on earth did Duncan manage to get 4 titles with Kobe being so awesome? People(Kobe Fans) will of course downplay this...

Why would anyone downplay TD's 4 rings? He's a Top 7-9 player all-time.

Kobe would still have 5 rings to TD's 4
Kobe will still have 2 repeats to Duncan's 0
Kobe would still have 7 Finals to TD's 4
Kobe would still be have back 2 back Finals MVPs

The point is that Kobe would have a legit case.

Yeah... he has a case for Kobe fanboys who ignore that Kobe had the best player in the NBA for 3 of those titles, has had an all NBA player alongside him for the next two... unlike Duncan.

Kobe is awesome... you go ahead and fight the good fight and tell everyone how awesome Kobe is.

Greatness doesn't need to be defended...

That LA team was Shaq/Kobe and a bunch of roleplayers. Kobe outplayed Duncan individually in 4 out of the 6 series they faced each other(with TD being defended by Green, Grant, Madsen and Samaki, in most of them), and has represented the West 7 times to Duncan's 4.

I give TD props all the time, but let's not act like DRob, Elliot, Manu, & Parker were scrubs. The sum of his supporting cast was the same as Kobe's current, especially when you consider that Bynum was hurt the previous two years.

[Dez Bryant]

so why isn't duncan #1 less help than MJ had as well.

cause MJ had 6 finals MVP's, gives him a lil more cache U DIG?

[Minge]

Where was Duncan's 30+ppg in 2001? 2002? Antonio Daniels / Terry Porter backcourt? C'mon.

[kasino]

so why isn't duncan #1 less help than MJ had as well.

cause MJ had 6 finals MVP's, gives him a lil more cache U DIG?

so it doesn't matter that he had better players around him to get those 6 finals MVP?

[Jordan23Forever]

Kobe fans will always - ALWAYS - invoke Jordan's name where he's not even being discussed in an attempt to posit some sort of equivalence between Kobe and MJ. It's hysterical.

[kasino]

It wasn't really about Jordan more about players around the player doesn't matter. I truly don't care for Kobe to be the GOAT if his career turns out like that so be it but its never my agenda maybe for some other fans but not me. All I'm saying Kobe gets Magic/Kareem credit for the 3peat and so far his career is on par with Duncan/Shaq.

[SDChargers#1]

Absolutely no one has said that Kobe is better than Jordan or even equal to Jordan. So give it a break Jordan23Forever.

The reason Jordan is brought up is because people know what the answer is for him. So if something can be true for Jordan, then it can also be true for other players.

They are trying to disprove the argument that having good players around you takes away from quality player. Jordan had Pippen, an All NBA / All Defensive force on his team. Everyone knows Pippen isn't as good as Jordan, but he is a damn good player none the less.

To say Duncan's 4 championships mean more because he has less of a supporting cast is a weird assertion because it seems like it only applies to Kobe.

I don't hear anyone saying how much better Duncan is than Shaq (even though he has Kobe and Wade on his teams (clearly better than anyone on Duncan's teams))

I don't hear anyone saying how much better Duncan is than Bird (even though he had McHale, Parish, etc (clearly better than anyone on Duncan's teams))

I don't hear anoyone saying how much better Duncan is than Magic (even though he had Kareem, Worthy, etc (WAY better than anyone on Duncan's teams))

I could go on and on. What bugs most Kobe fans (now there are some complete homers who want to say he is as good as Jordan, but the realistic ones) is when Kobe gets a lack of respect. Why do these having great player rules only apply to Kobe? Why do all these other top 10 players get complete credit for all their titles, and Kobe gets almost zero credit for his.

The fact is when it comes down to accomplishments...Stats, titles, MVPs, All NBA, All Defense, All Star games, Scoring Titles, Final MVPs, Peak, Longevity, Kobe is right there in the 8-10 greatest of all time, and could very well move up by adding to his legacy (since guys like Duncan and Shaq are seemingly done adding to theirs).

What bugs me personally are people saying that Kobe CAN'T move up, that it is IMPOSSIBLE. That is absolutely absurd in my honest opinion. There are multiple multiple categories that show a players greatness, and not any one number can encapsulate a players greatness (sorry PER fanboys). Some are given more weight than others (Stats and Championships are obviously the most important)

What people need to stop doing is adding rhetoric to this debate (yes there is a debate on this, neither side is cut and dry). Enough with the "Kobe Fanboys" this, "Kobe Haters" that, "You're stupid if you believe otherwise" this, and "It's not even close that". Have a legitimate debate if you want to argue your point. Use facts to back up your points, and a group consensus can be made.

[hasslinghoff]

this thread is so worthless due to the following:

kobehomer: kobe is GOAT and top5 All-time at worst!!11!!1
random guy with more credibility: no.
kobehomer: kobe has 4 rings!
random guy with more credibility: robert horry has 7 rings.
kobehomer: LOL HATER!!! YOUR MOM IS UGLY!!!
random guy with more credibility: your mom collects ugly children.

[Wile E. Coyote]

this thread is so worthless due to the following:

kobehomer: kobe is GOAT and top5 All-time at worst!!11!!1
random guy with more credibility: no.

random guy with more credibility needs to elaborate on his point.

kobehomer: kobe has 4 rings!
random guy with more credibility: robert horry has 7 rings.

Robert Horry has more rings than Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Wilt, Hakeem, Duncan and Bird too.

Number of rings should only used when comparing players of similar ability and skill.

kobehomer: LOL HATER!!! YOUR MOM IS UGLY!!!
random guy with more credibility: your mom collects ugly children.

The only worthwhile part of your post, but that goes for any thread, not just this one.

[kobethegoat]

Big Shot Rob is the RPGOAT, so whats your point.

You all can hate and make up a different stat everyday to downplay what Kobe done. All I know is Kobe Bryant delivers, theres nothing he cant do on a basketball court and nothing he wont do to win, since Kobs been here hes kept us hyped until June every other year while all yall idols are gone fishing already.

Since hes been here, Kobes been the most exciting player in the league, and the most winningest player in the league. He gave us 81, he gave us 4x50, he gave us 11x40, he gave us 62vs61, he gave us countless game winners and handed out countless butt whoppings in the playoffs, and not to mention he gave us 4 rings. Kobes basketball skills are outworldly, theres nobody on this planet that can do what he can do.

We not interested if you think Kobe aint **** cause he dont got a GOAT PER, I watch the game with my eyes and not with a calculator in one hand and a Hollinger article in the other. Kobe Bryant is a living legend, Kobe Bryant is a treasure of the game, you haters grow some prespective and better appreciate him before he goes cause we may never see another.

[KINGD]

The following players are better basketball players who have a greater impact on the game-
MJ
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Magic
Garnett
LeBron James
David Robinson
Off the top of my head.

I think he's top 20.

[Dez Bryant]

Big Shot Rob is the RPGOAT, so whats your point.

You all can hate and make up a different stat everyday to downplay what Kobe done. All I know is Kobe Bryant delivers, theres nothing he cant do on a basketball court and nothing he wont do to win, since Kobs been here hes kept us hyped until June every other year while all yall idols are gone fishing already.

Since hes been here, Kobes been the most exciting player in the league, and the most winningest player in the league. He gave us 81, he gave us 4x50, he gave us 11x40, he gave us 62vs61, he gave us countless game winners and handed out countless butt whoppings in the playoffs, and not to mention he gave us 4 rings. Kobes basketball skills are outworldly, theres nobody on this planet that can do what he can do.

We not interested if you think Kobe aint **** cause he dont got a GOAT PER, I watch the game with my eyes and not with a calculator in one hand and a Hollinger article in the other. Kobe Bryant is a living legend, Kobe Bryant is a treasure of the game, you haters grow some prespective and better appreciate him before he goes cause we may never see another.

u watch the game thru the eyes as a biased fanboy, hence your SN

[kasino]

The following players are better basketball players who have a greater impact on the game-
MJ
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Magic
Garnett
LeBron James
David Robinson
Off the top of my head.

I think he's top 20.

Hakeem
KG
Drob
Lebron
really?
the top of your head has little basketball knowledge.

[kobethegoat]

Big Shot Rob is the RPGOAT, so whats your point.

You all can hate and make up a different stat everyday to downplay what Kobe done. All I know is Kobe Bryant delivers, theres nothing he cant do on a basketball court and nothing he wont do to win, since Kobs been here hes kept us hyped until June every other year while all yall idols are gone fishing already.

Since hes been here, Kobes been the most exciting player in the league, and the most winningest player in the league. He gave us 81, he gave us 4x50, he gave us 11x40, he gave us 62vs61, he gave us countless game winners and handed out countless butt whoppings in the playoffs, and not to mention he gave us 4 rings. Kobes basketball skills are outworldly, theres nobody on this planet that can do what he can do.

We not interested if you think Kobe aint **** cause he dont got a GOAT PER, I watch the game with my eyes and not with a calculator in one hand and a Hollinger article in the other. Kobe Bryant is a living legend, Kobe Bryant is a treasure of the game, you haters grow some prespective and better appreciate him before he goes cause we may never see another.

u watch the game thru the eyes as a biased fanboy, hence your SN

So Im biased if I like watching a guy who puts on a show and 100% effort every single night? Im biased to like a guy thats brought 6 finals and 4 rings to the team in 10 years? brother watch what youre saying cause you making a non sense.

It aint like Im saying you know, I love Corey Maggette and hes goat. Its K.O.B.E, I think youre the one in denial if you cant accept his greatness and why people might be fans of his

[KINGD]

The following players are better basketball players who have a greater impact on the game-
MJ
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Magic
Garnett
LeBron James
David Robinson
Off the top of my head.

I think he's top 20.

Hakeem
KG
Drob
Lebron
really?
the top of your head has little basketball knowledge.

? All those guys had a greater impact on games.