Where does Kobe rank All-Time with another Repeat?

[kobethegoat]

The following players are better basketball players who have a greater impact on the game-
MJ
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Magic
Garnett
LeBron James
David Robinson
Off the top of my head.

I think he's top 20.

Hakeem
KG
Drob
Lebron
really?
the top of your head has little basketball knowledge.

? All those guys had a greater impact on games.

I totally agree. They have a much great impact on why their team gets bounced every year.

[Blame Rasho]

To say Duncan's 4 championships mean more because he has less of a supporting cast is a weird assertion because it seems like it only applies to Kobe.

So now it is a weird assertion? He was the only guy who was playing at an all NBA level for his championship level team. If you can't comprehend that then there is no room for logical debate. It is like describing color to a dog.

I don't hear anyone saying how much better Duncan is than Shaq (even though he has Kobe and Wade on his teams (clearly better than anyone on Duncan's teams))


Well because he isn't....

I don't hear anyone saying how much better Duncan is than Bird (even though he had McHale, Parish, etc (clearly better than anyone on Duncan's teams))


Well because he isn't....

I don't hear anoyone saying how much better Duncan is than Magic (even though he had Kareem, Worthy, etc (WAY better than anyone on Duncan's teams))


Well because he isn't....

I could go on and on. What bugs most Kobe fans (now there are some complete homers who want to say he is as good as Jordan, but the realistic ones) is when Kobe gets a lack of respect. Why do these having great player rules only apply to Kobe? Why do all these other top 10 players get complete credit for all their titles, and Kobe gets almost zero credit for his.

Lack of respect? What do you want.... for people to say that Kobe is a top 5 player of all time? To say he is the best player of his generation? For people to say that Duncan's titles = Kobe's titles?

[Baller 24]

I totally agree. They have a much great impact on why their team gets bounced every year.

sikeeee

[Wile E. Coyote]

Magic and Kareem each seem to get full credit for the five titles in LA together, yet for some reason Kobe doesn't get full credit for his three with Shaq. Why is that?

[rapsncavs]

Magic and Kareem each seem to get full credit for the five titles in LA together, yet for some reason Kobe doesn't get full credit for his three with Shaq. Why is that?

because he wasn't as good as either of those players.

[kobethegoat]

You know what you Kobe haters remind me of? Those self appointed "Kobe Stoppers", massive douchebags that made their living trying to discredit Kobe and trying to convince yourself that Kobe aint ****.

Ruben patterson
Raja Bell
Bruce Bowen
AK47
Trenton Hassell.

In the end, they all will be noting but footnotes in the career of the goat.

[RichardsRival3]

brother watch what youre saying cause you making a non sense.

What are you going to do if he doesn't watch it? Are you going to reach into the internet and punch him?

I am sure Dez Bryant is shaking in his boots right now.

[kasino]

Magic and Kareem each seem to get full credit for the five titles in LA together, yet for some reason Kobe doesn't get full credit for his three with Shaq. Why is that?

because he wasn't as good as either of those players.

For the 1st ring in his 4th season Kobe was 1 of 3 Lakers in double-digits the next
player behind his playoff 21/4/4 was Glen Rice's 12/4/2.

The next ring 1 of 4 in double-digits. He moved his overall production up 29/7/6 the next options were Derrick Fisher(13/3/3) and Rick Fox(10/4/3).

The last ring again 1 of 3 Lakers in double-digits. He posted 26/5/5 next to Fishers 10/3/3
During this time Kobe was the Lakers leader in assist, best defender and best closer.

It is clear that the 3peat Lakers were Shaq/Kobe dominating the league.

Those Lakers weren't even as balanced as the Showtime who had great 3-5 options. It was truly just Shaq/Kobe.

All I'm saying Kobe gets as much credit as KAJ/Magic for those rings.

So his career is on the level with Shaq/Duncan and if he wins this ring I think he seperates from Shaq/Duncan to go with Bird/Magic.

This is a re-post

2004 playoffs could be seen as a selfish Kobe who was forcing it
2004-2005 Shaq leaves Lakers miss the playoffs but after breaking up with another top 10 GOAT there will be adjustments
Next 2 years scoring champ with 1st round knockouts but with this as help:Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, and Kwame Brown Brian Cook. Very similar to Wade these past two years.
Next year MVP goes to the Finals
Then Wins a ring
Now in the WCF


that all adds u to
4× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009)
NBA Finals MVP (2009)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
12× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2010)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
8× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2010)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
8× All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2010)
2× All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009)

[Dez Bryant]

Big Shot Rob is the RPGOAT, so whats your point.

You all can hate and make up a different stat everyday to downplay what Kobe done. All I know is Kobe Bryant delivers, theres nothing he cant do on a basketball court and nothing he wont do to win, since Kobs been here hes kept us hyped until June every other year while all yall idols are gone fishing already.

Since hes been here, Kobes been the most exciting player in the league, and the most winningest player in the league. He gave us 81, he gave us 4x50, he gave us 11x40, he gave us 62vs61, he gave us countless game winners and handed out countless butt whoppings in the playoffs, and not to mention he gave us 4 rings. Kobes basketball skills are outworldly, theres nobody on this planet that can do what he can do.

We not interested if you think Kobe aint **** cause he dont got a GOAT PER, I watch the game with my eyes and not with a calculator in one hand and a Hollinger article in the other. Kobe Bryant is a living legend, Kobe Bryant is a treasure of the game, you haters grow some prespective and better appreciate him before he goes cause we may never see another.

u watch the game thru the eyes as a biased fanboy, hence your SN

So Im biased if I like watching a guy who puts on a show and 100% effort every single night? Im biased to like a guy thats brought 6 finals and 4 rings to the team in 10 years? brother watch what youre saying cause you making a non sense.

It aint like Im saying you know, I love Corey Maggette and hes goat. Its K.O.B.E, I think youre the one in denial if you cant accept his greatness and why people might be fans of his

Someone named "Kobethegoat" comes on here telling us how Kobe is above so and so is the one speaking nonsense because he can't possibly be objective. Kobe has always had more help than Duncan when he won championships.

hell look at last year, 2-7 did Duncan EVER have a better supporting cast than what Kobe had? cause we know Duncan never had the equivolent of Shaq from the Wing

[SDChargers#1]

To say Duncan's 4 championships mean more because he has less of a supporting cast is a weird assertion because it seems like it only applies to Kobe.

So now it is a weird assertion? He was the only guy who was playing at an all NBA level for his championship level team. If you can't comprehend that then there is no room for logical debate. It is like describing color to a dog.

I don't hear anyone saying how much better Duncan is than Shaq (even though he has Kobe and Wade on his teams (clearly better than anyone on Duncan's teams))


Well because he isn't....

I don't hear anyone saying how much better Duncan is than Bird (even though he had McHale, Parish, etc (clearly better than anyone on Duncan's teams))


Well because he isn't....

I don't hear anoyone saying how much better Duncan is than Magic (even though he had Kareem, Worthy, etc (WAY better than anyone on Duncan's teams))


Well because he isn't....

I could go on and on. What bugs most Kobe fans (now there are some complete homers who want to say he is as good as Jordan, but the realistic ones) is when Kobe gets a lack of respect. Why do these having great player rules only apply to Kobe? Why do all these other top 10 players get complete credit for all their titles, and Kobe gets almost zero credit for his.

Lack of respect? What do you want.... for people to say that Kobe is a top 5 player of all time? To say he is the best player of his generation? For people to say that Duncan's titles = Kobe's titles?

So in essence you have no argument.

"Well because he isn't..."

That means you have no argument because your argument against Kobe doesn't apply to others. If you have criteria for what makes a player great then you must apply it to everyone.

As I asked, why does the playing with a great player only affect Kobe's championships and not Kareem's and Magic?

Every single top 10 player of all time has been on fantastic teams with fantastic players, but Kobe is the only one who seems to get knocked for it. That is called a double standard my friend.

He was the only guy who was playing at an all NBA level for his championship level team

That applies to ONE of Duncan's championships, 2003 (which WAS absolutely great). In 1999 he had David Robinson putting up 18/11 and 3 blocks (better than Pau has ever done). In 2005 Duncan had both Manu and Parker both averaging 16+ ppg (granted not All NBA, but both very good players), and in 2007 Parker won Finals MVP, and was arguably more important in the playoffs.

Now I'm not saying this to take down Duncan, the guy is phenomenal. I'm also not saying it to say that Duncan had more help than Kobe with Shaq (obviously not), but Duncan definitely had plenty of help on his teams, and had teams that were more than just 2 men deep (which the 3-peat Lakers were, they were the Shaq and Kobe show with occasional guest appearances from Robert Horry and Derek Fisher).

I will not argue that Kobe was the number 1 option on the 3 peat teams....he wasn't. However, he was arguably the greatest 2nd option of all time, and would have been a 1st option on any other team in the league. Many people were saying that the Lakers had the TWO best players in the league.

Kobe deserves A LOT of credit for those 3 championships. Maybe in 2000 you could say that he gets about Pau Gasol credit (for the 2009 title), but after that he should gets Kareem / Magic credit.

[microfib4thewin]

do you mean the year Shaq dominated and Kobe making the All-NBA 2nd Team and All-NBA Defensive Team. Winning a championship in his 4th year compared to Gasol's 9th season pretty much his prime.

I am not sure how Kobe winning a title in his 4th year mean anything. He was definitely not a HOF level player back then, and since no one considers Gasol as an all-time player by winning a title last year, then it only makes sense that we don't do it for Kobe in 2000.

Magic and Kareem each seem to get full credit for the five titles in LA together, yet for some reason Kobe doesn't get full credit for his three with Shaq. Why is that?

Unlike the Magic/Kareem pairing Shaq was the #1 player on those three championship teams. There is no argument. He's statistically superior, and anyone who have watched the 3 peat Lakers saw the offense was centered on Shaq, not Kobe. What really hurts Kobe's case for his credit of the 3 peat is that Shaq was just absolutely unstoppable. Teams always double team him even before he makes a move, and occasionally they have to send a triple team to slow him down. You see how Shaq basically scored on anyone in the Celtics series when he's only single covered? Think of that Shaq who becomes twice as quick and can take more pounding in the post, and that's prime Shaq in a nutshell. When you have a 300 pound monstrosity in the paint, it would be much harder to devise a gameplan for a dynamic wing who can drop 30 every night. Teams frequently had to put their bigs in foul trouble because Shaq would have scored anytime he wants to make a shot. With such a handicap Kobe was able to play the way we all love and hate, and even when Kobe isn't doing well Shaq is always there to clean things up.

Besides, Kareem was known as a second fiddle at the twilight of his career, so no one is putting him up high because they think he won six titles as the main go to guy, he wasn't. He is GOAT because of his excellence for nearly two decades. That's true longevity right there. Kobe has only been at it for ten years as one of the league's top players and he's already showing signs of decline, if he falls off either next year or right after that then we can put to rest that Kobe had a longer peak than either Duncan or Shaq.

[Blame Rasho]

It is beyond me how some people sugarcoat reality for whatever reason....

So yes... Duncan's titles = Kobe's titles according to you and many other Kobe fans...

I know you are wrong.... but let say you are right for arguments sake, it is damn amazing that despite everything, Duncan has done just as much if not more as Kobe with far less.

Eh, It is foolish to argue with a fool...

[NYK 455]

It is beyond me how some people sugarcoat reality for whatever reason....

So yes... Duncan's titles = Kobe's titles according to you and many other Kobe fans...

I know you are wrong.... but let say you are right for arguments sake, it is damn amazing that despite everything, Duncan has done just as much if not more as Kobe with far less.

Eh, It is foolish to argue with a fool...

There is really no point to arguing with these guys. Kobe could average 10 pts on 25% shooting for the year, and if the Lakers won the Title that year, it's another ring for Kobe, justifying him over Shaq, Duncan, Bird, etc.

[eyriq]

I could see him moving into the top ten greatest of all time. Currently I think the top ten stands like this:

1. Micheal Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Larry Bird
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Bill Russell
8. Magic Johnson
9. Tim Duncan
10. David Robinson

[NYK 455]

I could see him moving into the top ten greatest of all time. Currently I think the top ten stands like this:

1. Micheal Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Larry Bird
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Bill Russell
8. Magic Johnson
9. Tim Duncan
10. David Robinson

Better get your flame shield up.

[Gongxi]

And you seem to think that being on a winning team somehow makes you a better player. It doesn't.

So, if Jordan's teams went 30-52 every year, he'd still be GOAT?

If he played like he did? Yeah.

Do you think Kobe's teams have won over the years despite his presence?

No, they win because of Kobe and his teammates. It's a team thing. He's been on some great teams. Those teams have been great in part because he was on them. That doesn't make him a better basketball player than Shaq or Duncan, or Bird or Magic, or KAJ, or Jordan, or Russell, or Chamberlain.

Like I've posted before, if he wins the title this year, he'd be the third player in NBA history to win a title 10+ years apart and average 35+ minutes. The other two are Russell and Jabbar. Do you think that's just some kind of fluke?

It doesn't really mean much. Not like you'd like it to mean.

This thread is just the Kobe Kidz against everyone else in the world, and you think you're somehow the one that's not highly biased? ****, some of the huge Kobe fans are even turning on you. I'm sorry.

[bl2k]

And you seem to think that being on a winning team somehow makes you a better player. It doesn't.

So, if Jordan's teams went 30-52 every year, he'd still be GOAT?

If he played like he did? Yeah.

Do you think Kobe's teams have won over the years despite his presence?

No, they win because of Kobe and his teammates. It's a team thing. He's been on some great teams. Those teams have been great in part because he was on them. That doesn't make him a better basketball player than Shaq or Duncan, or Bird or Magic, or KAJ, or Jordan, or Russell, or Chamberlain.

Like I've posted before, if he wins the title this year, he'd be the third player in NBA history to win a title 10+ years apart and average 35+ minutes. The other two are Russell and Jabbar. Do you think that's just some kind of fluke?

It doesn't really mean much. Not like you'd like it to mean.

This thread is just the Kobe Kidz against everyone else in the world, and you think you're somehow the one that's not highly biased? ****, some of the huge Kobe fans are even turning on you. I'm sorry.

so Jordan could never reach the playoffs in his career and to you he'd still be GOAT. you've said more than enough

[Gongxi]

That's right. When we rate players on how well they play basketball, we actually judge how they play basketball and not on if they have a good coach or GM or teammates. Weird, huh?

[eyriq]

1. Micheal Jordan: 6 Titles, 6x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 7x. 5x league MVP. Led the league in PPG 10x, in PER 7x, in offensive win shares 8x, in total win shares 9x, and in win shares per 48min 8x. #1 in career PER, #4 in career win shares, and #1 in career win shares per 48min. And there are so many other accomplishments that I'm leaving off here...

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 6 Titles, 2x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 3x. 6x league MVP. Led the league in PER 9x, in offensive win shares 6x, in win shares 9x, and in win shares per 48min 9x. #11 in career PER, #1 in career win shares, and #5 in career win shares per 48min.

3. Wilt Chamberlain: 2 Titles, 1x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 2x. 4x league MVP. Led the league in minutes played 8x, in FG% 9x, in total rebounds 11x, in PPG 7x, in RPG 11x, in PER 8x, in EFG% 9x, in win shares 8x, in win shares per 48min 8x. #5 in career PER, #2 in career win shares, and #3 in career win shares per 48min.

4. Larry Bird: 3 Titles, 2x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 2x. 3x league MVP. Led the league in PER 2x, in defensive win shares 4x, in total win shares 2x, and in win shares per 48min 2x. #18 in career PER, #21 in career win shares, and #18 in career win shares per 48min. Has led the league in other shooting related categories as well.

5. Shaquille O'Neal: 4 Titles, 3x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 4x. 1x league MVP. Led the league in FG% 10x, in PPG 2x, in PER 5x, in EFG% 6x, in offensive win shares 2x, in total win shares 2x, and in win shares per 48min 2x. #3 in career PER, #7 in career win shares, and #15 in career win shares per 48min.

6. Hakeem Olajuwon: 2 Titles, 2x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 1x. 1x league MVP. Led the league in total rebounds 2x, in blocks 2x, in RPG 2x, in BPG 3x, in defensive rating 5x, and in defensive win shares 4x. #16 in career PER, #14 in career win shares, and #43 in career win shares per 48min.

7. Bill Russell: 11 Titles, led the post season in win shares 5x. 5x league MVP. Led the league in total rebounds 4x, in RPG 5x, and in defensive win shares 11x. #90 in career PER, #13 in career win shares, and #21 in career win shares per 48min.

8. Magic Johnson: 5 Titles, 3x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 3x. 3x league MVP. Led the league in assists 3x, in APG 4x, and in steals per game 2x. #12 in career PER, #17 in career win shares, and #6 in career win shares per 48min.

9. Tim Duncan: 4 Titles, 3x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 2x. 2x league MVP. Led the league in defensive rating 3x, in defensive win shares 5x, and in total win shares 2x. #8 in career PER, #16 in career win shares, and #8 in career win shares per 48min.

10. David Robinson: 2 Titles, 0x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 0x. 1x league MVP. Led the league in total rebounds 2x, in blocs 2x, in PER 3x, in defensive rating 5x, in offensive win shares 2x, in defensive win shares 3x, in win shares 2x, and in win shares per 48min 5x. #8 in career PER, #8 in career win shares, and #2 in career win shares per 48min.

[Original Baller]

5 time champion
2 time Finals MVP
Regular Season MVP
2 time scoring champion
12 time all-star
8 time all-nba first team
8 time all-defense first team

yeah I would say that qualifies Kobe as top 6 all time

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Kobe
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

that'll be the consensus top 10