i would rather build around Josh than Al

[johnny878]

for as much **** as people give josh about his lack of effort on rebounding, he averaged the same amount of boards per game as al this past playoffs despite being stuck on the perimeter guarding rashard.

josh is just flat out better than Al and has a higher ceiling. like really the only thing al has going for him at either the C or PF position is that he can sometimes hit that 10 foot shot away from the basket.

if we are going to trade anyone for a true C, it should be AL not josh.

josh is a great passer, shotblocker, killer in transition, etc

al is pretty good at rebounding and has a 10 foot shot.... and thats it.

[johnny878]

additionally, for all the people who say "well he is playing out of position...". look what al put up last year at pf when josh smith was hurt. the exact same stats that he does at C. Why? because he has no offensive game and while he goes against smaller players, he loses his biggest advantage(his speed against the bigger slower C's)

[HoopsGuru25]

Who cares? You aren't going to win a title by building around either of them.

You were also the guy who said that you would rather have Marvin than Horford last year IIRC.

[ATL DirtyBird]

Al and Josh should never be the players that yyou want to build around. Thats a fatal flaw of this team.

[johnny878]

Who cares? You aren't going to win a title by building around either of them.

You were also the guy who said that you would rather have Marvin than Horford last year IIRC.

IIRC, you were the guy who said you would rather have zaza on a max contract than Kobe on a veterans minimum. see how that works?

[HoopsGuru25]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=937892&p=20553704

[HoopsGuru25]

That was just on the 1st page that popped up on google under "johnny878 realgm horford marvin". If the search function on this site actually worked...all of your posts would probably be bashing Horford and/or praising Marvin.

[D21]

...he averaged the same amount of boards per game as al this past playoffs despite being stuck on the perimeter guarding rashard.

Rebounding stats doesn't mean a lot by itself. If Josh is not boxing out to help Al to get rebound, but Al is boxing out helping Josh to get it...

[evildallas]

Reserve all judgment until you see a different system in place and I mean that for both players. Also you tend to think of building around a dominant C or a primarily ballhandler in the offense zone. That could a PG or another position like SG or SF if you have Wade, Bryant, or James (or further back Jordan). For the last 5 years we were building around Joe Johnson, but we've seen that top out.

We were also kind of trying to recreate the Pistons championship formula from a few years back of 5 almost equal starters offensively. The difference was our lineup wasn't as good defensively (and the scheme to hide those weaknesses made it more exploitable), we didn't have a Billups to maintain the balance, we didn't have the trust among the players, and we didn't have an offense plan other than take turns at iso whereas Detroit at least had Hamilton running of screens to put pressure on a defense and create open shots. My point is that while it is obvious we missed out on build around talent in 3 straight draft lotteries (good I hate Billy Knight with all my being), we've also seen players trying to fit into a specific system which doesn't necessarily show all they can or cannot do.

[JoshB914]

Horford gets a free pass too often imo. I love his work ethic and leadership qualities, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he completely disappeared in a several postseason games.

[HMFFL]

Horford gets a free pass too often imo. I love his work ethic and leadership qualities, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he completely disappeared in a several postseason games.

Al deserves a pass at times considering he plays out of his natural position. Josh on the other hand fails to do the basic things of the game that 4yr old's learn when they sign-up for a rec league. If Josh was at the 5 the learning gap would never close steadily like Al has been doing.

[td00]

We need someone to guard Howard one-on-one. Boston appears to be able to do it.

If we can't guard Howard, we aren't getting any further.

[evildallas]

We need someone to guard Howard one-on-one. Boston appears to be able to do it.

If we can't guard Howard, we aren't getting any further.

There aren't many in this category which is one of the reasons to consider building one from the ground up like Boston did with Perkins. Start with Garrett Siler or Dexter Pittman (bulk over height) or Daniel Orton if he falls far enough for instance and hire the coaching to develop them into a low post defender. Pay a premium for the right coach (Clifford Ray knows better than anyone). Hopefully you get your defender up to speed before someone teaches Howard how to be unstoppable down low.

Further evidence that this could work is that Glen Davis is able to keep Howard in check as well. Bulk and lower body strength is more important than length.

[azuresou1]

Who was it that argued with me that signing Siler as a project/experiment was worse than paying a proven bad player in RandMo or Jason Collins?

[HoopsGuru25]

Who was it that argued with me that signing Siler as a project/experiment was worse than paying a proven bad player in RandMo or Jason Collins?

It's still a very irrelevant debate because Morris contract was guaranteed and Siler still isn't in the league.

[parson]

Well, Cole Aldrich and DeMarcus Cousins are each a better version of Perkins. Do we want to move into the lottery high enough to try to get one of them? How high a pick could either Smoove or Horford give us?

[Jamaaliver]

Josh Smith will break your heart. Mark my word. Being able to dunk and block shots does not make him worthy of being the centerpiece.

AL is a double-double machine. He plays like a champion. And he is a leader in the locker room.

[evildallas]

Who was it that argued with me that signing Siler as a project/experiment was worse than paying a proven bad player in RandMo or Jason Collins?

I don't think I would have argued for Jason Collins, but I may have argued that Randolph Morris was already on contract. I've been a big supporter of the concept of developing youth and going after certain D-League talent, but I've also been arguing for years that we should hire proven assistants with development success to their credit even if it costs substantially. I doubt Siler would have developed any if he was on the Hawks last year. Much like I'm not sure that Randolph Morris has developed in two years with this staff. We've limped by without real player development for the last 6 years. If a player wants to push himself to get better he did, but these are large investments in labor. Spend some to train them right.

[Harry10]

Al and Josh should never be the players that yyou want to build around. Thats a fatal flaw of this team.

the fatal flaw for this team has been Joe and the offense, the only strength for this team as been Al and Josh's D and Crawford.

Joe, Bibby and Marvin have been the weakest links in this team.

get a coach that can get the team to play discipline ball on the offensive end and not just let Joe go ball hog, and you will get a much better team.

the Hawks interior D and Josh's and Al's contributions have been the strongest asset for the Hawks, unless you have Dwight, KG, Duncan, or Pau, you won't get a stronger contribution for your post players.

[_BBIB_]

This team is good enough to make ECF like those Pistons teams, we just need a far better offensive system.

The isolation plays do not work even for the best player in the NBA in LeBron James in the post-season so why should they work for us?

If we get a coach who enforced actual ball movement even in tight games, in the 4th, in the playoffs etc, then the sky is the limit for this team even without a superstar player.

We could be one of those exception to the rule teams because we have so many all-star and fringe all-star pieces.