Lebron was doomed when he came into the league as a PG

[Baseline Runner]

When Lebron came into the league he was forced to play point guard position because the Cavs were terrible and had no one resembling a PG on the team. Even as he moved to the SF spot he has still been playing point forward bringing the ball up the court and has been the team's primary playmaker his entire career.

Well what is wrong with that you ask? In my opinion this is misusing Lebron's athleticism and skills. He never went to college so his first 4-5 years in the league were formative years for him and set the pattern for his style of play for the rest of his career. Unfortunantly that style of play is very similar to Allen Iverson's isolation style of play. He never learned to move without the ball effectively, post up, play with his back to the basket or score mid-range. His game has evolved very little over the last 5 years, he either pulls up for a long jumper or he drives to the hole. Sure he is a great passer and gets a lot of assists but a lot of this has to do with his high usage rate and the fact the offense completely runs through him, just like Iverson. His offensive game has actually become very predictable, and when you know what a player is going to do you can shut him down in the playoffs like Boston did or San Antonio in the finals before that.

Lebron has suffered from a lack of proper coaching and learning to play in a structured offense. He has suffered from having to play so much iso ball over the course of his career. While this has certainly been good for his handling and driving skills, he has never been able to develop a multi-faceted offensive game that he needs to succeed at a high level. This also hampers everyone else on the court because despite Lebron being a great passer, it doesn't make up for the fact that his style of play leads to a very static offense, with everyone standing around waiting for Lebron to score or pass.

Barkley has been saying these things for years, that Lebron needs to play in a high tempo offense and play off the ball. He needs a speedster PG whom he can run up and down the court with and an athletic big man. However he has been playing Allen Iverson style of play for so long that he might not fit into any other system. Players don't change much after their mid-twenties and there isn't much time left for Lebron's learning curve.

That doesn't mean that Lebron won't win any titles. If he was playing with another elite player they would dominate. He could also play the way he is playing now with an amazing defensive team and succeed. Its just that the Cavs in my opinion have hampered Lebron and he has been pushed into a style of play which has made him less effective than he could have been.

[old skool]

I think that Lebron is hurt by having to handle the ball so much, but that impacts him the most during the regular season. Since the Cavs have done great during the regular season, it would not look like that is a huge problem.

The Cavs have been hurt by the lack of a second star who can take and make big shots in pressure situations. The Bulls had great shooters surrounding Jordan. Not only Pippen, who was a great player for the first three quarters, but less effective at the end of the game, but they also had snipers like Paxson, Hansen, Kerr, Buechler and Kukoc.

Those Bulls players faced a lot of pressure during the season. If they missed shots during the year, they incurred the wrath of Jordan and Pippen and to some degree Phil Jackson. They faced similar pressure in practice, where the competition was intense.

I sense that the Cavs feel less pressure during the year. They celebrate their great regular season success, and fully expect that to carry over into the playoffs. When things get tight, they find themselves out of their comfort zone.

There is little veteran leadership on the Cavs to teach these lessons. Mike Brown and Shaq are the only guys who have been around a championship team. The rest - Ilguaskas, Jamison, West, Williams - they have not had that high level of success.

oLd sKool

[JellosJigglin]

^Don't forget Craig Hodges and BJ Armstrong. Jordan/Pip had some of the greatest spot-up shooters of all time around them.

But as an outside observer, I agree with that entire post. Lebron dominating the ball looks great on the stat sheet and it produces regular season wins. But in the playoffs, the defenses get tighter and tighter every game into a series as the teams adjust. Every superstar needs that pressure valve when teams lockdown on them.

Still, it's not enough to just have shooters, you need at least one other guy who can create his own shot. I thought Mo Williams would be the 2nd guy who could create shots but it looked to me like he just burned out by the end of the year.

And when you're not able to create a shot, you need an offensive system that can create open looks for you. That's why the triangle offense doesn't require a true point guard: because if everyone makes the proper reads and make their cuts and they're in the right spots on the floor, then there will be open looks as a result of the system and ball movement.

[Canucklehead]

I think your 100% correct. Now it's up to him to realize it and whoever coaches him next to realize this and make the change if he ever wants to win a championship.

[Brenice]

Jordan and Kobe NEVER played with a prototypical point guard. They need the ball in their hand too much. I think LeBron shouldn't go to a Chicago and play with Rose because the weakness in LeBron's game is shooting off the pass. He can catch alley-oops from Rose but LeBron's effectiveness could be diminished.

What LeBron needs is like has been said, another legitimate scorer and some shooters as fillers.

[buckybadgerfan]

TItle of this thread is misleading.

LBJ was never drafted by Cavs to play PG but it seems you already realized that. He is a tweener (2/3 or 3/4) who presents matchup nightmares at several positions. Coming into the league he was compared to Jordan and Magic Johnson (who could play all 5 positions if need be) both of whom played point much of the time but were never conventional guards.

I agree with you that LBJ is better served playing off the ball more like he did in highschool. He has great strength/athleticism, speed and vision for a SF. He makes great passes/plays much of the time but his best asset is really the ability to finish a play. The final two games showed that LBJ really has no advantage at the point--hesitating too much when he can't create for himself. He can free himself better without the ball and has great ability to cut, flash and finish. He has improved his shooting tremendously but needs to improve his midrange jumpers, post-up and off the ball moves. He needs more set plays created for him because he is the best finisher in his position (WHICH IS NOT POINT GUARD).

[Baseline Runner]

TItle of this thread is misleading.

LBJ was never drafted by Cavs to play PG but it seems you already realized that.

No, his first year he was actually playing the PG spot.

[Cookin Baskets]

yea he had to they had nobody else at point guard way back in 2003. So Lebron had to play point for a bit until they got anybody. Remember Dajuan Wagner had one ok rookie year got injured lebrons rookie year, he wasn't the same since. He had a short stint with Golden State. He also scored 100 points in high school and I thought he was going to be a key contributor with Lebron.

[Icness]

I don't think Paul Silas felt he had the job security to take the ball out of rookie Lebron's hands. We did get Jeff McInnis for about half that year and the team was markedly better when he was running the show. Then the next season McInnis did what he always did--played real hard about 12 games and mailed in the rest. That team really lacked other options--it was Lebron and Z, with Gooden getting his 12 almost invisibly. They had nothing but Lebron dominating the ball and making everything happen. Silas knew he was in trouble because you just can't miss the playoffs two years in a row when you've got Lebron, so he let Lebron do everything...and he still lost his job once it was clear the team (and Lebron) was not progressing.

I think this is where the team really dropped the ball--hiring a rookie coach in Mike Brown at that juncture. They sorely needed a coach that demanded respect from Lebron and that could show him how to really play, but Brown was never that guy. I think Lebron would have welcomed it at that point. Look at the names being thrown around now--Coach K, Calipari, Larry Brown--these are guys that have experience as head coaches of super talents. Had the Cavs made a choice like that back then we might have enjoyed a title already.

[chrice]

I disagree. Lebron playing the point goes with his strengths. If he was listed as a point guard, I would rank him top 3 in overall passing ability, awareness, and ability to see the open court. This goes back to the Jordan / Magic debate. To me, he's more like a very athletic Magic. A lot of people don't realize how incredible Magic was attacking the basket, and as a finisher. He just never did it with flashy dunks like Lebron, but both Magic and Lebron both used their passing to as a threat to help them get the shot they wanted. PER efficiencywise, you are going to get the most out of Lebron with the ball.

Lebron is not a catch and shoot guy. He also creates his own shot, and has the ability to run plays that not a lot of scorers are able to do. To take the ball out of his hands is to take away a spear from Leonidas. Please don't even compare him to AI. AI could have been a PG that averaged double digit assists if he focused completely on that. But he felt that the only way his team was going to win was to score 30+. Lebron will do whatever is necessary instead. If he can get an assist, he'll get an assist. He knows who has the best opportunity to score, and that is exactly why he runs the floor.

Where I think that the Cavs went wrong was picking who to surround him with. He needs wingmen. Guys who play good individual defense, have good hands to catch the ball, and who can slash and shoot. Just because he's a big point guard doesn't mean you need to go with a traditional lineup and surround him with midgets. Larry Hughes, decent defender, but can't score if his life depended on it. Mo williams, mediocre defender, can shoot sometimes, but can't slash. Delonte, good defender, can shoot, but still not a slasher. Flip murray, good slasher, fair defender, bad shooter. Z and Varejao couldn't catch a lob if their lives depended on it. And the list goes on and on.

Icness also makes a good point with Mike Brown. I remember the first year he coached, he was completely lost. Couldn't figure out which player should do what, kept shifting Lebron all over the place until he realized what he had late in the second season when he was getting 29/7/7. To me it was only a matter of time before people realized that he lacked the ability to make any type of in-game adjustments and how he lacks the ability to develop his younger bench players. I fully believe that Cleveland could have gotten past the Celtics had they had a more competent coach.

[mcfly1204]

I agree with the OP 100%. This past Olympic team was a great example of how effective LeBron can be when playing off the ball more. Yes that team was loaded with star players, but you cannot deny that he, as well as Wade for that matter, played very well throughout that tournament.

Does anyone think Phil would even consider coming to Cleveland? He loves coaching the best player in the game, and if LA is asking him to take a significant paycut, why not think about Cleveland?