Jazz open to exceeding tax

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Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#1 » by babyjax13 » Mon May 17, 2010 5:01 pm

According to general manager Kevin O'Connor, Utah won't rule out playing luxury tax again in the future.

"I think you can see us doing that again," O'Connor said recently.

All four of this season's conference finalists -- the Celtics, Lakers, Magic and Suns -- will pay luxury tax.

"Look, we're not gonna do it to try to sign a body to make it look cosmetically good," O'Connor said. "But I think if it improves our team for the long range, and it gives us an opportunity to get to the next round or whatever round, we hear it.

"I think we're gonna be aggressive in trying to build a real competitive team, an elite team, which I think we've done over the last four years," the Jazz GM added. "Where we go from here, I'm not positive. But I think the Miller family has given a commitment."



Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... z0oCtvw0F3


I think this means Boozer and Mathews will be back.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#2 » by schneiderjazz » Mon May 17, 2010 5:06 pm

KOC said the same thing last year and got rid of Maynor, Harp and Brewer. I'll believe when I see it.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#3 » by Jazzfan12 » Mon May 17, 2010 5:08 pm

I don't think Boozer will be back. He and Millsap complement each other pretty poorly and I don't think Boozer has that many games left in him (Like 150).
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#4 » by DelaneyRudd » Mon May 17, 2010 5:11 pm

schneiderjazz wrote:KOC said the same thing last year and got rid of Maynor, Harp and Brewer. I'll believe when I see it.

There is exceeding the cap for a reason, and exceeding the cap for no reason. Maynor was a huge cost savings, and Brewer wasn't in the future. These players would not have been a difference maker.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#5 » by StocktonShorts » Mon May 17, 2010 5:20 pm

schneiderjazz wrote:KOC said the same thing last year and got rid of Maynor, Harp and Brewer. I'll believe when I see it.


But they still were over the tax. They just weren't $12M over.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#6 » by kamazilla » Mon May 17, 2010 5:26 pm

I am hopeful that the salary shedding moves the Jazz made this season were chosen specifically to make it more feasible to retain Boozer. Otherwise, would it not have made more sense to simply move Boozer at the deadline and retain at least Maynor? Seems to me they were thinking long term with the moves they did make, which would suggest that after having half the season to assess Boozer's competitive value to the team, they decided it would be best to do what it takes to keep him.

That said, if management quibbles over a few million and Boozer walks while the Jazz get nothing, I will lose a great deal of respect for the current brain trust- or at least ownership. Thus far I've been reserving judgement; this summer will tell the tale.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#7 » by kebutah » Mon May 17, 2010 5:52 pm

I think the front office is just saying the right things in order to not upset the fan base. They would be foolish to exceed the tax limit for a second round team.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#8 » by DelaneyRudd » Mon May 17, 2010 6:12 pm

I think they are saying to other teams, make us an offer we can't refuse.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#9 » by countrybama24 » Mon May 17, 2010 6:25 pm

We have to say things like this to deter offers for our restricted free agents (matthews and fes). It's just strategy, I bet we don't spend much. If we keep boozer, I'm done though. Gotta try something new, make a big trade for once!
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#10 » by dr0welf » Tue May 18, 2010 3:51 am

Only way Boozer stays is if we get a huge discount on his services. I think they will be open to making the team better, but not sure how much RISK they are willing to take. If it seems obvious that it will help the team then they do it, otherwise they will wait a year until AK drops off the books.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#11 » by QuantumMacgyver » Tue May 18, 2010 4:15 am

The Jazz should just let Booz walk if no sign and trade can be worked. He is just too small to be effective against taller players, both offensively and defensively. It seems crazy to put over $20 million into two undersized PFs. The Jazz should save that money, be patient, and try to sign someone who can possibly take us to the next level. I think Booz has proven that he is a great talent, but isn't the answer for this team.

I think next year could be a real strange year. With the CBA and a possible lockout, many teams could be looking to unload valuable talent at low prices. I say lets wait this one out. Signing Booz will just get us back to where we are now. And does anyone want to be here for another 2 years?
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#12 » by kamazilla » Tue May 18, 2010 6:31 am

^^^

Where we are now is a legitimate top four western conference team with a chance to fill our biggest hole in the draft. The speculation that the Jazz are better off with out Carlos Boozer going forward is a notion difficult for me to reconcile with past performance. So Boozer is no Duncan in his prime, nor Malone, for that matter. Given that those two are the top power forwards the league has ever seen, who the hell out of the current crop of players is in their league? And who among the elite few are obtainable to the Jazz? Better still- who can replace Boozer on this team? Millsap??!! Seriously- I love the way he plays, but he is not the primary post option for a contending team- ever.

Bottom line- Boozer's offense is irreplaceable for the Jazz. As far as being undersized- he dwarfs Millsap and plays plenty big for a 4. The problem is, and always has been with this core, a complete lack of length, tenaciousness and athleticism at the five. Were Boozer playing next to any sort of real center, he would come off as being all-world nearly every night. Good teams capitalize on their strengths and address their weaknesses; they do not watch their most productive players walk while pretending no weakness exists. No Boozer means the Jazz take a serious step backward.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#13 » by countrybama24 » Tue May 18, 2010 12:42 pm

kamazilla wrote:^^^

Bottom line- Boozer's offense is irreplaceable for the Jazz. As far as being undersized- he dwarfs Millsap and plays plenty big for a 4. The problem is, and always has been with this core, a complete lack of length, tenaciousness and athleticism at the five. Were Boozer playing next to any sort of real center, he would come off as being all-world nearly every night. Good teams capitalize on their strengths and address their weaknesses; they do not watch their most productive players walk while pretending no weakness exists. No Boozer means the Jazz take a serious step backward.


First, Boozers offense is very replaceable versus the Lakers, which is something the Jazz have to gear their team towards since they (and the thunder) will be the team to beat over the next 5 years. Millsap outplayed Boozer in every facet of the game (scored more / more efficiently at a way higher percentage, got the line, attacked the basket, got offensive boards etc).

This is true any team that has a really big 4 to throw at boozer, he shrinks from contact and relies on his jumper which worked against bad defensive teams like the nuggets, but not against contenders.

Vs. Lakers ----

Boozer: 15.5 pts @ 44%, 13 rbs, 2.5 turnovers, .2 blks, .2 stls 38 min.

Millsap: 19 pts @ 53%, 7 rebounds (he was playing a center), 1.2 turnovers, 1.4 blks, 1.2 stls, 32 min.

And don't say they were double teaming Boozer, they weren't. Boozer was one-on-one vs. Pau (mostly jumpers), and Bynum is as tough a matchup for Paul.

Second, Millsap is at least 90% of Boozers offensive output. He scores 20 pts on the regular, he averaged at least 18 in his third year as a starter, he shoots as good if not better than Boozer.

Sure, he doesn't often play with his back to the basket, but that is not a requirement to generate interior offense anymore in the NBA. Millsap has an excellent face up game, a quality step back jumper, good post moves (e.g. burning artest with the up and under) and is in general very effective going toward the basket. He literally has not had a chance to prove himself as a starter yet and get the minutes Boozer got (which definitely hurts his output, see http://ballhype.com/story/the_paul_millsap_doctrine/), he can definitely be you're third best player on a championship team. Boozer can't be your second best player (empirically proven), so why keep him anyways.

Third, defense wins championships. Boozer's defense is all-NBA terrible. Yes Paul is as short. But paul has a monstrous wingspan, quick feet, and solid athleticism / vertical leap to contest shots. Boozer does none of the above, and consistently screws up defensive rotations because he is defensively (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Paul is really a quiet good defender actually. Boozer is awful. Even if paul is only 80% of Boozers offense, its a small price to pay for a huge upgrade at defense.

Yes Boozer would look good with a defensive center who hides some of his weakness, Paul would look better. Not to mention, we're unlikely to get a truly elite defensive 5, so we will probably have to settle with a quality (but not elite) defensive 4 and 5 and play team defense.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#14 » by countrybama24 » Tue May 18, 2010 1:10 pm

Production as a third year starter (in Millsaps case, that 18-ish game stretch last year)

Millsap: 16.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals and 1.0 blocks

Boozer: 17.7 points, 9 rebounds, 2.8 assists, .8 steals, .5 blocks.

This is the more relevant comparison than any other years stats because they were the same age, Millsap will still develop whereas Boozer has peaked.

Is +1 pts, -2 rebounds, -blocks and steals (and must worse defense) really worth 12 mil? Wouldn't you let Millsap do most of what boozer does, and spend that money on a center, or wing who can create their own shot? Oh yea, Millsap doesn't get injured much either.

Re-signing Boozer is just begging the FO to bring the same team to next years playoffs, with the same result.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#15 » by QuantumMacgyver » Tue May 18, 2010 4:51 pm

^^^

Kudos to this man for bringing some facts. Serious ups for you man! The Jazz need to consider using whatever money they could've thrown at Booz and contemplate using it next summer. Next summers free agent class is pretty good.

Al Horford
Kendrick Perkins
Joakim Noah
Mo Williams
Delonte West
Carmelo Anthony
JR Smith
Rodney Stuckey
Tayshaun Prince
Shane Battier
Aaron Brooks
Al Thorton
Pau Gasol
Zach Randolph
Marc Gasol
David West
Wilson Chandler
Jeff Green
Kevin Durant
Mickael Pietrus
Thaddeus Young
Leandro Barbosa
Jason Richardson
Greg Oden
Spencer Hawes
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Caron Butler

This just a list I grabbed from another site. So I'm not entirely sure if any of these players have extended their contracts. But there are multiple players on this list that could have a more positive impact on the Jazz than Boozer.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#16 » by StocktonShorts » Tue May 18, 2010 5:35 pm

QuantumMacgyver wrote:Al Horford -- Would be great, but I'm guessing he re-signs with ATL
Kendrick Perkins -- I'd love to get this guy
Joakim Noah -- Will re-sign with Chicago
Mo Williams -- Short combo guard -- not what the Jazz need
Delonte West -- Uhhh.. no thanks.

Carmelo Anthony -- If he'd come to Utah, I'm game
JR Smith -- Seriously?
Rodney Stuckey -- Short combo guard -- no thanks
Tayshaun Prince -- Past his (brief) prime
Shane Battier -- Is already showing his age

Aaron Brooks -- Horrible fit with D-Will
Al Thornton -- overrated (possible confused with Horford?)
Pau Gasol -- Signed through 2013-2014
Zach Randolph -- Fat Boozer
Marc Gasol -- Will be re-signed by Memphis
David West -- Boozer-lite

Wilson Chandler -- Maybe
Jeff Green -- David West-lite
Kevin Durant -- Will re-sign with OKC

Mickael Pietrus -- Potentially like this one
Thaddeus Young -- Potentially like this one
Leandro Barbosa -- Would be a great add for the right $$$; in fact I'd love to grab him this offseason
Jason Richardson -- Has had a really good year, but I still doubt his consistency and defense
Greg Oden -- Will re-sign with Portland
Spencer Hawes -- Who?
Tim Duncan -- Not going anywhere
Tony Parker -- Not going anywhere
Caron Butler -- No thanks. Career loser.


This just a list I grabbed from another site. So I'm not entirely sure if any of these players have extended their contracts. But there are multiple players on this list that could have a more positive impact on the Jazz than Boozer.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#17 » by kamazilla » Tue May 18, 2010 5:38 pm

CB24-

You keep saying that losing Boozer will help us achieve a different result next season; I agree. However, that result will amount to fewer wins, and a first round exit in the playoffs if we are fortunate enough to get in as a 6-8 seed. In my mind it is extremely doubtful the Jazz would have advanced to the second round this year without Boozer. We would have had a lower seed and less favorable matchup, or perhaps not even made the playoffs. Talent wins in the NBA, and if Boozer walks, the Jazz will be left with several good players, but only one elite player.

Millsap would work as a starting PF only if the Jazz had a center who could replace Boozer's post presence on offense as well as defend. True, not all teams need a lot of scoring from the post to succeed, but for the Jazz it is absolutely a must- particularly against contenders. Their offense depends on the spacing Boozer provides when he is doubled, and he is given room to operate when our wings force teams to stay on them. Its a delicate balance which provides consistent results, and when that balance is upset, the offense sputters.

Yes, the Jazz have trouble against LA because the Lakers create havoc with their size and disrupt the balance. They don't have to double, the wings aren't given lanes or open shots, and the offense slows. The solution, however, is not eliminating the only real post presence from the team. The solution is to add length, skill and athleticism at the 5. We can get that through the draft (hopefully). The type of center we would need in order to compete with the Lakers if Millsap were the starting PF, however, is not obtainable through the draft or any other means.

I might be wrong and we may have a chance to test our respective theories next season, but to selectively use stats to prove your theory only makes you feel more secure in your own position. I prefer to look at the whole picture and use use all data available in order to allow an objective analysis. That analysis tells me the Jazz are a better team moving forward with Boozer as the starting PF. Further, the team would be most improved by adding a long 5 who defends well and is court aware while not being liability on offense.

There are no shortages of opinions regarding what the Jazz should do this summer. It will interesting to see what actually goes down and how their moves work out.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#18 » by QuantumMacgyver » Tue May 18, 2010 5:43 pm

^^^
Good points, but the question isn't whether the Jazz are better with Booz or without Booz. The question is, is Booz worth the contract that he's going to get? And could that money be better spent elsewhere.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#19 » by QuantumMacgyver » Tue May 18, 2010 5:44 pm

HappyProle wrote:
QuantumMacgyver wrote:Al Horford -- Would be great, but I'm guessing he re-signs with ATL
Kendrick Perkins -- I'd love to get this guy
Joakim Noah -- Will re-sign with Chicago
Mo Williams -- Short combo guard -- not what the Jazz need
Delonte West -- Uhhh.. no thanks.

Carmelo Anthony -- If he'd come to Utah, I'm game
JR Smith -- Seriously?
Rodney Stuckey -- Short combo guard -- no thanks
Tayshaun Prince -- Past his (brief) prime
Shane Battier -- Is already showing his age

Aaron Brooks -- Horrible fit with D-Will
Al Thornton -- overrated (possible confused with Horford?)
Pau Gasol -- Signed through 2013-2014
Zach Randolph -- Fat Boozer
Marc Gasol -- Will be re-signed by Memphis
David West -- Boozer-lite

Wilson Chandler -- Maybe
Jeff Green -- David West-lite
Kevin Durant -- Will re-sign with OKC

Mickael Pietrus -- Potentially like this one
Thaddeus Young -- Potentially like this one
Leandro Barbosa -- Would be a great add for the right $$$; in fact I'd love to grab him this offseason
Jason Richardson -- Has had a really good year, but I still doubt his consistency and defense
Greg Oden -- Will re-sign with Portland
Spencer Hawes -- Who?
Tim Duncan -- Not going anywhere
Tony Parker -- Not going anywhere
Caron Butler -- No thanks. Career loser.


This just a list I grabbed from another site. So I'm not entirely sure if any of these players have extended their contracts. But there are multiple players on this list that could have a more positive impact on the Jazz than Boozer.


Just to clarify. I didn't assemble this list. Just copied and pasted what I found. Hence the J.R. Smiths and Tim Duncans.
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Re: Jazz open to exceeding tax 

Post#20 » by dr0welf » Wed May 19, 2010 2:18 am

Will losing Boozer affect the team if we let him walk? Yes... IF

If we don't sign another big to help. If you compare the team as is vs as is minus Boozer... then yes it makes us worst. But signing Boozer not only locks us as a good team but it locks us in to being a playoff team not a championship team.

Can we keep Boozer and sign a big that will help get us past. No money to do it unless we are willing to be the top spenders in the NBA. Not going to happen. Fiscally it is impossible to keep Boozer and sign another Big to help unless you can pull a trade off for Okur or AK for nothing. Defensively Millsap is better then Booz.

The offensive side we do fine at, and with Millsap as the main PF we will still be fine. Boozer helps so we have a stud like Millsap coming off the bench. But we can

Do we have a chance to win a championship with Dwill and Boozer as our 1 and 2? Nope... been there done that multiple times.

If we can add some length inside, I think you have to let Boozer walk and take that risk of not being as good. Staying status quo is not an option I like.

Personally I would rather see KOC take a risk and shoot for the fences, then keep watching my team lose to the Lakers every year. If he fails, so be it, but atleast I would know he tried.

IMO Boozer = no heart, don't forget he played this year for a contract. I know what he does wants he gets a contract... seen that too.

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