Retro Player of the Year Project

[lorak]

I checked top 5 in 10 different categories: All NBA, All Defensive Teams, MVP and DPOY voting, leaders in PER and WS in regular season and leaders in WP and PER in playoffs and also “best player on best team” in regular and playoffs. For example All NBA voting looks that way:
All NBA
Shaq 605
Payton 541
KG 495
Duncan 460
Kidd 445

So I give Shaq 5 points, Payton 4, Garnett 3, Duncan 2 and Kidd 1. I do the same for 9 others categories, here’s top 5:

Shaq – 44 points (almost max, but was second in DPOY and gets no votes in All D Team)
Mourning – 20
Malone – 14
Payton – 13
Duncan – 11

I suppose that’s how my votes would look like. Shaq is obvious choice, Mouring too. It’s his best season and his defense was all time great – nobody plays better against prime Shat than Zo. 3rd and 4th places for players, who now are underrated, especially Payton – people forgot how good he was, but at the time (2000) he was the best guard in the league. Duncan gets 5th spot, because despite not playing in playoffs was better in regular than Garnett or Kobe. Awful shooting in playoffs and quick exit also don’t help KG case, in fact hurts it.

[semi-sentient]

Can you post the top 10 results?

[lorak]

1. Shaq 44
2. Zo 20
3. Malone 14
4. Payton 13
5. Duncan 11
6. KG 9
7. the best Blazers player (Pippen?) 8
8. Miller 6 (all points earned in playoffs)
9/10. Kobe 4
9/10. Webber 4
and then four players with 3 points, two with two and two with one.

[Baller 24]

Great SI article on '00 Bryant:

Boy Ii Man
Erstwhile teen hot dog Kobe Bryant has grown into a consummate team player, which is a big reason the Lakers are huge favorites to win the NBA title

I had a dream that jealousy Was a thing of the past. And we all understood It's all vanity and it won't last....
—Visions, a song by Kobe Bryant

Most mornings Kobe Bryant awakens to an ocean view. Before his feet touch the Italian marble floor, he sees the Pacific sparkling outside his bedroom window, a vast blue blanket beneath an endless sky. It's an awesome tableau, yet you suspect that when Bryant gazes at it, there might be something even more spectacular in his mind's eye. He has a way of seeing things that others don't; it's little wonder that his favorite cut from his soon-to-be-released hip-hop album, K.O.B.E., is a wistful tune entitled Visions.

Bryant's visions have been ridiculed, but that has never deterred him. When he was nine years old and living in Milan, other kids would laugh at his certainty that he would one day be an NBA star. In response he would scribble his name on scraps of paper and hand them to his doubters. "You might want to hold on to this," he would say. Bryant smiles sheepishly at the memory, but he relishes having had the last laugh. He has a way of making cockiness seem lovable, which is one of the keys to his popularity. Why shouldn't he be impressed with himself? If those kids had listened to him, they would have the autograph of a two-time NBA All-Star who, at the tender age of 21, is perhaps the best shooting guard in the league.

Some of Bryant's visions are eerie. When he was chosen 13th in the 1996 NBA draft by the Charlotte Hornets, who promptly traded him to the Los Angeles Lakers for center Vlade Divac, Kobe told his father, former NBA player Joe (Jelly Bean) Bryant, that someday he'd play for Phil Jackson and his assistant Tex Winter—although Jackson and Winter were coaching the Chicago Bulls at the time. In February of last year Kobe phoned Winter to pick his brain about the triangle offense. Not until four months later did the Lakers sign Jackson, who took Winter and the triangle to L.A. "Freaky, isn't it?" Bryant says.

It doesn't take a visionary to see a championship in the Lakers' near future. With a 67-13 record through Sunday, Los Angeles has secured home court advantage throughout the playoffs, and it looms as the kind of prohibitive favorite that few people expected to see so soon after the dissolution of Michael Jordan's Bulls. The Lakers' brilliant year has been largely the result of Jackson's orchestration, Shaquille O'Neal's domination and Bryant's maturation. These days Bryant is far less inclined than he was as recently as a year ago to indulge in one-on-one forays, which often delighted fans but irritated teammates. Instead he integrates his flights of improvisation into the Los Angeles offense. "He doesn't make his game a personal game anymore," says L.A. forward Rick Fox. "You don't see him doing the things on the floor that used to get him in trouble and get us in trouble."

The 6'7", 210-pound Bryant has also recognized how many ways he can leave his imprint on a game. Not only does he score, but he also initiates the Lakers' attack and has developed into a fierce defensive stopper. "Kobe's a model of what a young player should aspire to be," says Philadelphia 76ers coach Larry Brown. "Year by year he has learned and made his game more solid, and now he's not just a highlight-film guy but an accomplished NBA player."

This has been the best of Bryant's four NBA seasons by any measure: His averages of 22.6 points, 6.2 rebounds and 4.9 assists through Sunday are career highs. It has also been the season in which he was least noticed. O'Neal is a lock for the MVP award, erasing any doubt that the Lakers are his team. He has been magnanimous in acknowledging Bryant's growth, referring to their partnership as the Combo, but it's clear that anyone who plays with O'Neal is at best the side dish to his entr�e. Moreover, while the MVP votes are going to Shaq, the style points are going to Toronto Raptors forward Vince Carter, who has passed Bryant in the line of succession to be crowned the next Jordan. Observers have looked-closely for any hint of envy from Bryant, but he has shown only one fleeting sign. During a postgame interview on NBC in February, he was asked if the fact that Carter had scored 51 points earlier in the day had spurred him to try to do something equally spectacular. A look of annoyance crossed Bryant's face. "Man," he said, "why do you guys want to ask those questions?" Then he quickly regained his calm and denied any rivalry with Carter.

Otherwise, if Bryant has been annoyed at being overshadowed by O'Neal and Carter, he has hidden it well. "It's actually perfect," he says. "I can learn every facet of the game without everyone analyzing every move I make. It's funny how much people wonder about jealousy. Am I jealous of Shaq? Is he jealous of me? Am I jealous of Vince? I'm not about that. Shaq's been unbelievable, and nobody wants to see him play this way more than I do. Vince? I'm very, very happy for Vince. I love what he's doing."

Bryant and Carter should feel more sympathy than envy for each other, because they are both doomed to be held up to Jordan's standard. Thanks to His Airness, the definition of a superstar has forever changed. It's not enough to be a perennial All-Star, an essential part of a winner, a sneaker-company pitchman. A player can't separate himself from the pack unless he is all those things and more: a corporate mogul, a player in the entertainment world, the leader of a dynasty. Bryant is doing his best to reach the bar Jordan has raised. In December he purchased half-ownership of an Italian basketball team, Olimpia Milano, and he has endorsement deals with Adidas, Mattel and Sprite, among others, that will generate more annual income than his six-year, $71 million deal with the Lakers. Bryant is also testing the waters in show business with his CD, on which he wrote or cowrote all the songs, and in a deal with Columbia to produce albums for other artists. He has plans for Kobe Family Entertainment, his film production company, to produce movies and sitcoms. When Bryant was a gangly senior at Lower Merion (Pa.) High, many observers feared he was ruining his future by deciding to skip college. In March he was on the cover of Forbes, decked out in Armani.

An NBA title would seem to complete the picture of Bryant as an all-around success, the rare young player who has found a balance between sport and celebrity. But to measure up to Jordan, Bryant will have to be the player who leads a team to several championships. He's not in a position to do that with the Lakers. It's hard to be Michael Jordan when your team needs you to be Scottie Pippen.



That's why Bryant's willingness to tone down his game is significant. It doesn't mean, however, that he's content to take a backseat indefinitely. His visions don't include an image of himself as a careerlong second banana. "Somewhere down the line when Shaq comes to me and says, 'Kobe, I don't want to have to put up the big numbers every night, you've got to help me out,' I'll be ready," Bryant says. If O'Neal never makes such a request? "I'm only 21," Bryant says. "When I'm 28, Shaq will be what, 40?" He smiles at his exaggeration, knowing O'Neal will be only 35 then. "Point is, my time will come."

Bryant usually doesn't talk about the future so freely, preferring to concentrate on the present. Ask him what else he envisions for himself five, 10 years from now, and he shakes his head. "I'm not going to tell anybody that," he says. "It's better to keep things like that to yourself. Certain goals you love to share, like winning a championship. Others are to keep yourself interested. I'll just leave it at this: People would be surprised at some of the goals I have."

If you say murder that means I'm a thug poet.
If I say my mind kills that means I'm a thug poet.
—Thug Poet, a song by Kobe Bryant

The Thug poet sits in the lounge of the Four Seasons Hotel in Vancouver, sipping a virgin pi�a colada. The only alcohol Bryant drinks is champagne on New Year's Eve and the occasional glass of red wine, a custom to which he was exposed when he lived in Italy while his father played pro ball there. He says Jennifer Love Hewitt is one of his favorite actresses, and his six-bedroom house in Pacific Palisades is within walking distance of his parents' house. This is hardly the profile of a thug, even a poetic one, but that's not the point. Bryant may not be from the streets, but he can speak the street language; he can fit in when he wants to.

Kobe was 13 when his family moved back to the U.S. He'd been born in Philadelphia but moved to Italy when he was six, and he had a hard time assimilating to life in America. The slang baffled him, but he soon picked it up, absorbing it without even realizing he was doing it. He has undergone a similar process as a player in his four years in Los Angeles. He was 18 when he joined the Lakers, a teenager among grown men. "I don't think he was shy, but a certain amount of shock was there," says guard Derek Fisher, who broke in with L.A. the same year that Bryant did. "He was reserved because he wasn't sure how to act. Some guys misinterpreted that to mean he didn't want to hang out with us."

It wasn't until this year that Bryant began to fit in, taking in the occasional movie on the road with teammates, joking around more on the team bus and plane. "It's like he realized that before he could establish himself in this league, he had to establish himself in this room," Fox says, referring to the locker room. Bryant denies that he has tried to open up more to his teammates, but perhaps, as he did after returning to the U.S., he adapted without realizing it. "If you ask me, I acted the same way my first few years, but for some reason the perception is different this year," he says. "If I'm doing something that makes them feel more comfortable around me, then I'm happy about that."

His relationship with O'Neal was the trickiest, but the days when Shaq would publicly express thinly veiled displeasure with Bryant's play are, if not gone, increasingly rare. O'Neal's appearance at Bryant's 21st birthday party last August was the Lakers' equivalent of the end of the cold war, and the two seem at ease with each other on and off the court. "Me and Kobe are cool," says Shaq. "We got to know each other, and we found that there's room in this offense for us both to do our thing."

The triangle helped O'Neal and Bryant learn to coexist. The new offense called for more movement and cutting than the systems used by previous coaches Del Harris and Kurt Rambis. "Basically it was just Shaq in the post and four guys on the perimeter, waiting to see what happened," Bryant says of the old offense. "You couldn't feed off each other in that setup."

"They had to learn that this offense isn't predicated on plays being called for one guy or the other," Jackson says. "It's predicated on how to read the defense and hit the open man, move without the ball and give it up. Sharing breaks down a lot of barriers. There's been the idea in the past on this team that people had different agendas, and the agenda had to come around to 'one for all.' Kobe didn't have a selfish agenda; he just felt that the way he had been playing was the best way he could contribute. Gradually, he's seen there is a different way to contribute that incorporates more of the team."

Bryant believes one reason he and O'Neal struggled to get along is that they are so similar. "We're both attackers," he says. "We both want to get 40 points. I had to figure out how to attack in a different way. I've got it pretty much figured out now—not completely, but almost." And when he figures it out completely? "Then," says Bryant, "I'll be ready for more."



Favorite children's book: Curious George, by H.A. Rey. He's always looking for an adventure, just like me.
—From Bryant's Web site

A little-brother analogy is often used to describe Kobe—and not just by his two older sisters, Sharia, age 24, and Shaya, 22. It's cited by others, too, because Kobe is childlike in the best sense, playful, inquisitive, mischievous. A horror movie fan, he has been known to put on a long black trench coat and a mask he got from Scream director Wes Craven and hide in the bushes outside his house, popping out to scare his parents and sisters when they come to his door. When he was a boy in Italy, he liked to jump out the family's second-floor window onto the lawn. His jump from high school to the NBA was riskier than those second-story leaps, but his motivation wasn't much different; he wanted to know what would happen when he landed. "I just want to see what I'm capable of," Bryant says. "That's what drives me more than anything: curiosity."

It's curiosity that brings him to longtime Lakers assistant Bill Bertka in search of tapes of great players of the past, such as Pete Maravich. Curiosity led Bryant to seek out exceptional defenders like Eddie Jones, Gary Payton and Scottie Pippen and ask them for tips on how to improve his own defense. When he was traded to Los Angeles, he immediately called the coaching staff and asked for tapes of guards around the league he would soon be facing.

Bryant learned his lessons well. He has added a new dimension to the Lakers' defense with his ability to smother small, quick guards. His work against the 76ers' Allen Iverson during an 87-84 win in February was masterly. With a seven-inch height advantage, Bryant barely let Iverson see daylight in the second half, hounding him into 0-for-9 shooting in the fourth quarter and stuffing his final shot. Like Jordan, Bryant uses his defensive prowess to exact revenge on opponents. Larry Hughes of the Golden State Warriors scored 41 points, many of them against Bryant, in a 109-92 L.A. victory on March 9. When the two faced each other again on March 22, Bryant was determined to make Hughes pay for his impudence. He attached himself to Hughes during the first quarter, blocking two of his shots and harassing him into missing six of seven attempts. Meanwhile, Bryant picked up 18 points and four assists. The game was such a blowout—the Lakers won 119-96—that Bryant didn't play enough to torture Hughes further. "I told Phil I wished we had kept the game closer so I could have stayed out there," he says.

Given that kind of performance, it's no wonder that Bryant is curious, above all, about his gifts. He talks about his ability as if it were an object, something to examine from every angle. "I've decided to take my talents to the NBA" is how he began the press conference in which he announced he would bypass college. Now he says, "People say I've made it, but I haven't come close to being where I want to be. It intrigues me to see how far I can go with this thing."

It's hard to blame him, because he hasn't had the freedom that young stars often have. Think of it this way: Bryant never got to sow his oats, at least not many, as a young player. He never went to college and dribbled rings around a future chemical engineer from Drexel. He doesn't seem to have missed that, judging from his incredulous look when he's asked if he regrets never having played in the NCAA tournament. "I get to play with and against the best players in the world," he says. "Why would I feel I missed anything?"

Bryant seems unlikely to become some malcontent consumed by his ego or by jealousy, but he may be consumed by his curiosity. The Lakers have a bright student on their hands who needs to be constantly challenged, and as they move toward what seems to be an inevitable championship, they would be wise to begin planning his next lesson.

It's funny reading this shows exactly how young he was at the time, you realize now how much he's matured throughout the years.

[An Unbiased Fan]

1. Shaq 44
2. Zo 20
3. Malone 14
4. Payton 13
5. Duncan 11
6. KG 9
7. the best Blazers player (Pippen?) 8
8. Miller 6 (all points earned in playoffs)
9/10. Kobe 4
9/10. Webber 4
and then four players with 3 points, two with two and two with one.

I don't think All-NBA, MVP, DPOY,All-D, PER, WS equal one another. Some are more important than others, in differing ways.

For instance, All-NBA voting beyond just the Top 5 went like this....

1) Shaq - 605
2) GP - 541
3) KG - 495
4) TD - 460
5) Kidd - 445
6) AI - 420
7) Kobe - 411
8) Malone - 409
9) Zo - 354
10) Hill - 342

Zo is screwed because he is sharing votes with Shaq who was unanimous that year. Malone isn't far from TD nor KG, and Kobe/AI both aren't to off from Kidd.

So put in context, the seperation in the RS wasn't as great as a 5,4,3,2,1 point system would show in results.

All-Defense voting was....

1) GP - 52
2) Zo - 42
3) Kobe - 33
4) KG - 31
5) TD - 29
6) Shaq - 29
7) Eddie Jones - 27
8) Kidd - 26
9) Pippen - 19
10) Cliff - 18

Which is different from the DPOY voting. I think these ranking help, but shouldn't be looked at without context.

[Baller 24]

Then again the All-NBA teams are based off of the voting of the coaches, while the DPOY voting is done through the media analyst. BTW, anyone that has Kidd in their Top 5 should take him out IMHO, even without Kidd , during the 15 games that Kidd missed down the stretch, Hardaway averaged 18.3 points, 7.0 rebounds, 7.1 assists and 1.9 steals (9-6 overall without him). I don't think he deserves that 1st team at all.

And from the looks of it, Payton dominated the All-NBA Team defense voting, but I'm still reluctant to put him over Garnett, who I'm convinced was the better player compared to Payton in the RS, but KG's playoff outing was not on par.

[semi-sentient]

Good article(s) on Kobe.

To add to that, there was some back and forth between Kobe and Pippen in the WCF. Pippen said something to the effect of:

Somebody better tell Kobe Bryant that I have 6 rings and that I'm looking forward to #7

... when asked about the match up between them (which was being hyped up big time). At the end of the day though it's odd that Kobe looked like the guy who had all the championship experience with his poise in that Game 7 comeback, while Pippen essentially disappeared.

Oh, and there was one more thing I remember from that post-season. Kobe was being interviewed before Game 1 of the Finals and he said that the thing which every team in the league feared most was now coming to pass -- that he and Shaq were finally on the same page.

[Silver Bullet]

Then again the All-NBA teams are based off of the voting of the coaches, while the DPOY voting is done through the media analyst. BTW, anyone that has Kidd in their Top 5 should take him out IMHO, even without Kidd , during the 15 games that Kidd missed down the stretch, Hardaway averaged 18.3 points, 7.0 rebounds, 7.1 assists and 1.9 steals (9-6 overall without him). I don't think he deserves that 1st team at all.

And from the looks of it, Payton dominated the All-NBA Team defense voting, but I'm still reluctant to put him over Garnett, who I'm convinced was the better player compared to Payton in the RS, but KG's playoff outing was not on par.

that's okay.

his playoff outings are always not on par.

that hasn't stopped anyone from appointing him the messiah in earlier threads -

[lorak]

I think these ranking help, but shouldn't be looked at without context.

I agree and that’s why I use 10 different (however some are similar to each other) categories: some are about stats, some about general recognition at the time (MVP etc) and some about team success.
Of course it’s far from perfect, but I think it gives some general overview.

[Baller 24]

It's funny that Payton was right behind Shaq in the All-NBA Team Voting, I guess he was highly respected by the coaches that season, especially defensively it seems. BTW, does anyone here consider Duncan over KG?

[Silver Bullet]

It's funny that Payton was right behind Shaq in the All-NBA Team Voting, I guess he was highly respected by the coaches that season, especially defensively it seems. BTW, does anyone here consider Duncan over KG?

I do

And Robinson.

[Baller 24]

Duncan I can see some compelling arguments for, but seriously---Robinson? Why?

[Silver Bullet]

Duncan I can see some compelling arguments for, but seriously---Robinson? Why?

meh, looking at the stats, seems I don't have that good of an argument.

I thought he was better than the stats show -

lemme think about it.

[tkb]

I might not be able to participate this week due to work. I'll try, but can't guarantee me voting as I'm going on a business trip.

[lorak]

Duncan I can see some compelling arguments for, but seriously---Robinson? Why?

meh, looking at the stats, seems I don't have that good of an argument.

I thought he was better than the stats show -

lemme think about it.

I think we have to remember that especially in this case stats don’t tell the whole story because Robinson sacrificed stats. What’s matter is if he was still able to be productive when have to and the answer is yes. In playoffs, without Duncan, he had second PER (behind Shaq) among all players (but FG% as bad as KG). That says a lot and defensively no doubt he was still elite (still above 1 steal per game! that’s amazing for 34 year old center) and IMO at this point better than Garnett. However Robinson was in shadows of Duncan and that’s why he didn’t get much recognition.

[JordansBulls]

Anyone else get an error when accessing this page?

http://www.dolem.com/poy/

[NO-KG-AI]

The second best player on the Spurs, and a guy that could only go for 32 minutes a game is better than the guy that was second in MVP voting.

Yea, and the KG fans are the biased ones.

Duncan I can see some compelling arguments for, but seriously---Robinson? Why?

meh, looking at the stats, seems I don't have that good of an argument.

I thought he was better than the stats show -

lemme think about it.

Yea, so you'll just try and formulate any argument possible to downplay Garnett.

[bastillon]

Garnett's opps answer me this:

1)who was responsible for Blazers' collapse offensively against the Wolves ? possible answers: Wally, Brandon, rookie Rasho, Malik Sealy, Garnett, Flip Saunders, Joe Smith, Kobe Bryant (his impact was so immense that Blazers shot worse before ever getting to WCFs). consider Sheed's 13 PPG in 42 MPG vs Wolves and 19 PPG in 36 MPG (over 22 per42) vs rest of the PS opps.

2)how does 8.8 APG correspond offensively with impact ? you can say anything you want about points, but big averaging almost double digit assists is like PG averaging 15-17, because of all the hockey assists etc. doesn't that vastly make up for the gap in scoring that was created when Garnett shot 44% TS ?

you don't have to shoot well to make impact. in fact, Jason Kidd was handed the top5 in 2002 and he was shooting what, 3% TS better ? (on lesser volume, make no mistake) Garnett meanwhile had SIGNIFICANTLY more defensive impact and did just as much with his passing (in fact more since Kidd averaged similar volume with higher TOs). at the same time, Kidd was absurdly outplayed by Garnett in the RS, especially in scoring/shooting department. somehow Kidd wasn't knocked for his PO performance, but Garnett is. "Kidd can make an impact without ever scoring a single point" - I get that, but that's the exact beauty of a 7'1 defensive-minded pass-first PF (which Garnett calls himself) - defense and passing are KG's main assets and they always have been. it's not like Wolves had any business being in the top5 offense - it was his passing that anchored them, not 20 PPG.

after all, Garnett's impact was still immense in the playoffs, because Blazers still didn't crush them and in fact, barely won those games. it's not like they were losing by 18 pts or more in 3 straight games. oh, wait, that'd be Karl Malone.

[Silver Bullet]

The second best player on the Spurs, and a guy that could only go for 32 minutes a game is better than the guy that was second in MVP voting.

Yea, and the KG fans are the biased ones.

Possibly the best guy on a championship contender vs the best guy on a team that is guaranteed to be first round fodder. I mean, why is KG the only guy consistently getting credit for not winning. The same argument doesn't work for McGrady, Steve Francis, Marbury or any other perpetual looser.

[Baller 24]

Cause KG would constantly have 50 win teams with terrible talent, while putting up terrific statistics in the Western Conference. McGrady had even crappier talent, put up good numbers, impacted well, was solid, but KG would constantly do better in a tougher conference and still pull out 50 win seasons.