Mavs - Cavs trade

[gflem]

I think the 'tude some of you are getting from our board is that weve been called arrogant and told we dont understand someone else's point of view as if their opinion is the only way for our team to go forward. We get that it would awful to lose Leborn for nothing.
We get that him going to the Bulls would suck even worse. If he leaves I want him in the west conf. so we dont have to see him as much playing against us. I believe the FO feels the same way, but if he is adamnant about leaving, the FO wont be held hostage by his demands.
That would be an easier sell by ownership if they dont jump on the medocrity treadmill to appease Lebron, in fact the fanbase would probably be indignant about Lebron leaving and have the team's back somewhat if they were to stand up and not cave. Just my opinion.
I think Gilbert will do everything to keep him, and if it doesnt work he wont have any problem throwing Lebron under the bus publicly in stating that Lebron refused to come back and that he would rather start over than win 40+ games every year and bow out of the playoffs early. I mean were doing that now anyways.
Realistically, we would not have ever gotten Lebron if the team hadnt purposely tanked when it did anyways, and while they will never admit it I believe they would do that again. Its easier to sell hope when you have young guys and draft picks playing and not winning than when you have older guys playing and not winning, so a complete rebuild would be in order.
Or, maybe we could S&T Lebron to Sacto for Tyreke?

[BossHoggin]

How hard is it understand that letting LeBron walk and get less money is an option? You get all defensive and do not listen to the reasons. Get over yourself and stop with this "roddy is the best prospect ever you need to take him or you will regret it forever". Yeah a sign-and-trade is logical but so is not giving up on your fan base. There is a lot of people in Ohio that would hate the Cavs organization for participating in a sign and trade. People from Ohio hold grudges. I think management would want those fans to show up when all the LeBron fans stop showing up, because they are gone anyways.

[CDansby]

How hard is it understand that letting LeBron walk and get less money is an option? You get all defensive and do not listen to the reasons. Get over yourself and stop with this "roddy is the best prospect ever you need to take him or you will regret it forever". Yeah a sign-and-trade is logical but so is not giving up on your fan base. There is a lot of people in Ohio that would hate the Cavs organization for participating in a sign and trade. People from Ohio hold grudges. I think management would want those fans to show up when all the LeBron fans stop showing up, because they are gone anyways.

Ha, alright man you need to relax. I've never said that letting him walk isn't an option, I'm just simply stating that I feel that's it's a worse option than a S&T. I never said "roddy is the best prospect ever" I simply said that he'd be a nice guy to have around if you're rebuilding. I'll do my best to get over myself and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offensive and arrogant, I'm really just trying to voice my opinion. I understand that there are a lot of people in Ohio who would hate the Cavs FO if they participate in a S&T but I bet they're are just as many people if not more who would be more upset if he walked for nothing.

[gflem]

I personally dont think you came off as offensive, but a raw nerve is just that. Touch it any way you want and it is still gonna be raw. Its gonna be interesting for sure where all the all stars end up and how they get there.

[chakdaddy]

If Lebron went up to the Cavs FO and said "look, I'm not coming back and I've narrowed it down to Chicago or Dallas. I can sign with Chicago and take a 5 year deal and yall are left with nothing or you can sign me to the max 6 year deal and then trade me to Dallas for cap relief and other pieces to let you rebuild."

If that situation happened, he's already admitted that Chicago is not his #1 choice. Rather than cave in and get some mediocre guys from Dallas (and also paying millions in salary to the unwanted expiring matching contracts, as opposed to saving money if LeBron walks) - they'd be more likely to refuse and hope that Chicago is a bluff and only a ploy to force a trade to Dallas.

That Marion situation was an aberration since Toronto didn't want to keep him. Not many teams are just going to help Dallas out and sign/trade them a guy they don't have cap space for. LeBron may have most of the leverage on this one, but Cleveland still has more than Dallas does.

[from_ro_to_dirk]

the only true s/t option for me is andrew bynum...that's it. if lebron is leaving, then i want mo, jamison and gibson out of here as well. contending is not an option anymore and we would need to get cap flexibility and top 3 draft picks for the next couple of years (the okc model). teams don't accomplish anything by running the treadmill of mediocrity (i.e. continually getting the 6th through 12th spots in the conference). these trades being thrown around by mavs fans would keep us on that treadmill - especially if mo and jamison are still around.

the only way i'd see a cavs/mavs deal go down is if mo and jamison were included as well and the mavs really don't have the expiring contracts that would warrant such a deal going down

Actually the entire point of my thread to begin with is if this deal were to go down, what would Cleveland try to trade along with LBJ? In the initial thread i did mention first rounders and any additional people needed. The main part of the trade would be Damp/Butler/Beaubois. I said many times that this trade would help the Cavs shed salary now and get out of bad contracts. Thats where Butler comes into play. He has an $11 million expiring. Thats where you can get rid of a Mo or Jamison or Varejao . The Mavs also will hae Barea and Najera as expirings if the Cavs just wish to give up.

Thats the point I've been trying to make but it seems some people aren't really getting that. They just say "why would Gilbert take on more money?" In actuality he'd be getting rid of tons of money and getting under the cap much quicker. Of course they can always try to make other trades to get rid of their bad contracts, but this Mavs trade, IF Lebron should want to come here would help
them accomplish that goal.

The whole point of the thread was not if Lebron was leaving, if he would go to the Mavs, etc. It was IF he said he want to do a S&T with the Mavs, then what would Cleveland fans try and do with it.

[gflem]

Understood. I dont get though why you keep bringing up Varejo, he isnt really overpaid. Granted he sucked the last series, but there was some sort of back issue bothering him, and after the first game against the Bulls he really didnt bring the energy and hustle that we here are used to.
If Lebron goes, we have Mo and Jamison on big contracts, Shaq and Z will not be resigned. Thats close to 40 Mil off the cap. We still would be near the cap though, and I believe we have Jamison for 2 years. So, yes your scenario would save us some cap. And yes Roddy has some upside, but I still think in terms of a S&T for Lebron, we should be able to do better than that. There is so much gray area in terms of where Lebron would accept a trade to, and whether the types of players and picks such team would be able to supply in return would be acceptable to the Cavs mgmt.
Any team Lebron would go to would certainly have less desireable future picks to trade in return based on a vast improvement in the standings Lebron would bring (barring injury).
Not getting a marketable player in return would really hurt the gate here, and Caron and Roddy arent the types of players that most casual fans are even going to recognize. Hence my point that without Dirk there isnt the bang for your buck (literally) factor needed in any other deal that could be worked out with Dallas.

[CDansby]

If Lebron went up to the Cavs FO and said "look, I'm not coming back and I've narrowed it down to Chicago or Dallas. I can sign with Chicago and take a 5 year deal and yall are left with nothing or you can sign me to the max 6 year deal and then trade me to Dallas for cap relief and other pieces to let you rebuild."

If that situation happened, he's already admitted that Chicago is not his #1 choice. Rather than cave in and get some mediocre guys from Dallas (and also paying millions in salary to the unwanted expiring matching contracts, as opposed to saving money if LeBron walks) - they'd be more likely to refuse and hope that Chicago is a bluff and only a ploy to force a trade to Dallas.

That Marion situation was an aberration since Toronto didn't want to keep him. Not many teams are just going to help Dallas out and sign/trade them a guy they don't have cap space for. LeBron may have most of the leverage on this one, but Cleveland still has more than Dallas does.

I completely agree. But the only thing about any package surrounding Damp is that he has an instant expiring of $13.1 million, meaning you can waive him without any financial obligation. So the only expiring you would have to pay would most likely be Butler's which is right around $10.5 million and you get a young talent in Beaubois.

I'm really just to show that there is SOME incentive to make a deal with Dallas. Again, I don't think it's going to happen, but there are teams who would love to have and instant $13.1 million in savings and a young PG like Beaubois is they knew their FA was going to walk.

[FAB0L0US]

Thats the point I've been trying to make but it seems some people aren't really getting that.

What you dont get is that you sound like an insane person for suggesting any rational owner would accept trash like Roddy, Carons contract, NAJERA (are you f**king joking me?), Erica, etc. for Lebron friggin James. You want Lebron in a S&T you are gonna have to gut your friggin roster and give up everything of value to sign him, not give away table scraps like this. Mavs fans... a special breed.

BTW, recognize my avatar pick? He probably smacked Dirk in the face like 800 times in 2006 on his way to picking up a ring. Have fun being old, Mavs.

I'm really just to show that there is SOME incentive to make a deal with Dallas. Again, I don't think it's going to happen, but there are teams who would love to have and instant $13.1 million in savings and a young PG like Beaubois is they knew their FA was going to walk.

Expirings and a completely unproven talent that Dallas is all slobbing over for the best player in basketball? Excuse me, no, there is no incentive to do that. That would be one of the worst trade ever, even if it would be a S&T. The Mavs give up d*ck (Erica), get rid of Caron's contract, get rid of a this "all-star level talent prospect who cant get any playing time," and get Lebron in exchange? F*cking A dude, that is an absolute travesty of a deal.

I just cant get over it, suggesting Roddy and money for LEBRON JAMES.

[ctorres]

Judging from this thread, it seems that Cavs fans would rather have Lebron walk and leave for nothing than do any form of sign and trade deal with him. The point of Lebron going to Dallas is for him to play with an MVP caliber player in Dirk Nowitzki. Lebron is not going to agree to a trade to Dallas that sends Dirk back to Cleveland.

[CDansby]

Thats the point I've been trying to make but it seems some people aren't really getting that.

What you dont get is that you sound like an insane person for suggesting any rational owner would accept trash like Roddy, Carons contract, NAJERA (are you f**king joking me?), Erica, etc. for Lebron friggin James. You want Lebron in a S&T you are gonna have to gut your friggin roster and give up everything of value to sign him, not give away table scraps like this. Mavs fans... a special breed.

BTW, recognize my avatar pick? He probably smacked Dirk in the face like 800 times in 2006 on his way to picking up a ring. Have fun being old, Mavs.

I'm really just to show that there is SOME incentive to make a deal with Dallas. Again, I don't think it's going to happen, but there are teams who would love to have and instant $13.1 million in savings and a young PG like Beaubois is they knew their FA was going to walk.

Expirings and a completely unproven talent that Dallas is all slobbing over for the best player in basketball? Excuse me, no, there is no incentive to do that. That would be one of the worst trade ever, even if it would be a S&T. The Mavs give up d*ck (Erica), get rid of Caron's contract, get rid of a this "all-star level talent prospect who cant get any playing time," and get Lebron in exchange? F*cking A dude, that is an absolute travesty of a deal.

I just cant get over it, suggesting Roddy and money for LEBRON JAMES.

You real naive to how much money affects these sort of things. The NBA isn't just about basketball, ask Grizzlies fans about Pau Gasol.

[microfib4thewin]

Judging from this thread, it seems that Cavs fans would rather have Lebron walk and leave for nothing than do any form of sign and trade deal with him. The point of Lebron going to Dallas is for him to play with an MVP caliber player in Dirk Nowitzki. Lebron is not going to agree to a trade to Dallas that sends Dirk back to Cleveland.

Not a Cavs fan, but you seem to believe the DUST chip somehow gives Dallas more leverage than a team with capspace. It doesn't. If the return from the S&T is so marginal such as the package Dallas is purposing, then it really doesn't matter whether Lebron will leave for nothing, because what they are getting back is so small in value it doesn't affect the Cav's future. Are you telling me the Cavs future will turn around with two dead last 1st rounders and a prospect who has played a total of 700 minutes? The Cavs will suck with or without such a return, so why S&T Lebron to make him and the other team happy when they get nothing out of it?

[CDansby]

Judging from this thread, it seems that Cavs fans would rather have Lebron walk and leave for nothing than do any form of sign and trade deal with him. The point of Lebron going to Dallas is for him to play with an MVP caliber player in Dirk Nowitzki. Lebron is not going to agree to a trade to Dallas that sends Dirk back to Cleveland.

Not a Cavs fan, but you seem to believe the DUST chip somehow gives Dallas more leverage than a team with capspace. It doesn't. If the return from the S&T is so marginal such as the package Dallas is purposing, then it really doesn't matter whether Lebron will leave for nothing, because what they are getting back is so small in value it doesn't affect the Cav's future. Are you telling me the Cavs future will turn around with two dead last 1st rounders and a prospect who has played a total of 700 minutes? The Cavs will suck with or without such a return, so why S&T Lebron to make him and the other team happy when they get nothing out of it?

The Lakers traded Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie all who had expiring contracts. A prospect in Marc Gasol (who had zero minutes in the NBA) and two first round picks. Hell, Shaq got traded for Wally **** Szczerbiak. These things happen. The package I'm purposing is exactly the same as the one the Lakers purposed in the Pau trade.

I never said that Dallas has more leverage than a team with capspace at all. I've continued stating that Lebron has most of the leverage in this situation. I've also stated that if Lebron decides to walk, the Cavs would be better off in any sort of sign and trade then letting him walk for absolutely nothing. It would also be better for him financially because he gets the 6 year deal instead of the 5 year one.

[Gordon Bombay]

i don't mind lebron going to dallas for one because it keeps him away new york (those people can go screw themselves) and chicago (division rival). the problem with a dallas trade is the only person i would even be remotely interested in would be roddy. the only way i see a trade going down is if the cavs have pre-arranged deals already in place to get of mo and jamison for capspace

something like mo and varejao to portland for webster, fernandez, pryzbilla and a first (maybe have portland draft alabi for us this season)
jamison to charlotte for chandler and a second

and that would set up lebron and gibson to dallas for beaubois, butler, dampier, 2011 1st, 2013 first. the cavs would sequentially cut dampier and buy-out butler because we don't need either one of those two. it also sets the cavs up in great position for top 3 draft picks for the next three years and a boat load of capspace (with only martel webster gauranteed past 2011 and he's only gauranteed for 2012)

for next season
pg beaubois/telfair
sg webster/green/fernandez
sf williams/moon/fernandez
pf hickson/powe/fa scrub
c chandler/alabi
and whomever we get by trading parker and west (and maybe even moon). sure this team will suck next season but it accomplishes the goal of a top 4 pick

[DowJones]

This is absurd. This would be like me going to the Dallas board and saying...

"If Dirk demanded a trade to Cleveland, what would hyou want from the Cavs?" It isn't happening. Dallas fans are living in this dreamworld where LeBron DEMANDS to be dealt to Dallas. That isn't happening. There are so many options out there, why would LeBron limit himself to one like Dallas?

Even if LeBron does demand that, Cleveland is not going to agree to the deal. Dallas has nothing Cleveland would want for LeBron. It's just not happening.

[FAB0L0US]

The Lakers traded Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie all who had expiring contracts. A prospect in Marc Gasol (who had zero minutes in the NBA) and two first round picks. Hell, Shaq got traded for Wally **** Szczerbiak. These things happen. The package I'm purposing is exactly the same as the one the Lakers purposed in the Pau trade.

So your example of "these things happen" is what as universally regarded as one of the worst basketball trades ever, one that gift wrapped LA one championship and possibly more, here? You think any GM wants to become Chris Wallace 2.0? Yes, your case is indeed strong.

And Shaq barely never got "traded" just like Wilt never got "traded." They ran themselves out of town with bad attitudes and greed and were dumped on other teams for peanuts. You do pretended to know about basketball, dont you?

[gflem]

Absurd? I dont know, it doesnt seem anyone is saying Lbeorn would limit his options, just that it could be an option, and if so, hypothetically what do we think would be an acceptable return. This thread has been far more cordial that that of numerous Knick fans and others in the past.
Look, there is no really fair return for Lebron if he demands a S&T.
And even if he does the Cavs have no responsibility to appease him. That has been most of the conversation here, that some believe the team has to cavs and get "something, anything" for him rather than cut losses and move on.
I for one dont want to see a S&T, but if he is definitely leaving I would hope we could extract many future draft picks. Like, 3-4 first rounders and some young talent and a vet expiring to match his max contract. Preferably a young big with major upside. NOT aging 2nd tier stars who will win games and have this team drafting its own picks in the middle of the 1st round.
We lived through this team tanking to get Lebron, and while there isnt another Lebron coming around anytime soon other teams have won titles without him, so its not the end of everything if he leaves.

[CDansby]

The Lakers traded Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie all who had expiring contracts. A prospect in Marc Gasol (who had zero minutes in the NBA) and two first round picks. Hell, Shaq got traded for Wally **** Szczerbiak. These things happen. The package I'm purposing is exactly the same as the one the Lakers purposed in the Pau trade.

So your example of "these things happen" is what as universally regarded as one of the worst basketball trades ever, one that gift wrapped LA one championship and possibly more, here? You think any GM wants to become Chris Wallace 2.0? Yes, your case is indeed strong.

And Shaq barely never got "traded" just like Wilt never got "traded." They ran themselves out of town with bad attitudes and greed and were dumped on other teams for peanuts. You do pretended to know about basketball, dont you?

hahahahahahahahaha. I've never laughed so hard at anyone on these forums. I love watching the new guys on these boards talk like they're pissed off at everyone. You seem to be a real nice guy man, I'm glad we could talk all this out.

I bet you do pretended to know about what this conversation was actually about.

[CDansby]

Absurd? I dont know, it doesnt seem anyone is saying Lbeorn would limit his options, just that it could be an option, and if so, hypothetically what do we think would be an acceptable return. This thread has been far more cordial that that of numerous Knick fans and others in the past.
Look, there is no really fair return for Lebron if he demands a S&T.
And even if he does the Cavs have no responsibility to appease him. That has been most of the conversation here, that some believe the team has to cavs and get "something, anything" for him rather than cut losses and move on.
I for one dont want to see a S&T, but if he is definitely leaving I would hope we could extract many future draft picks. Like, 3-4 first rounders and some young talent and a vet expiring to match his max contract. Preferably a young big with major upside. NOT aging 2nd tier stars who will win games and have this team drafting its own picks in the middle of the 1st round.
We lived through this team tanking to get Lebron, and while there isnt another Lebron coming around anytime soon other teams have won titles without him, so its not the end of everything if he leaves.

Thanks for keeping the conversation within the points that I've been trying to make. And I agree with everything you've said too. The whole not wanting a 2nd tier star thing kind of relates back to me saying that if (and like I've said, I don't think it's going to happen at all) the Cavs did a S&T with Dallas, the Cavs would rather have Damp and Roddy and picks instead of Dirk because if Lebron wasn't enough to get you to a championship then of course Dirk isn't enough.

[CDansby]

This is absurd. This would be like me going to the Dallas board and saying...

"If Dirk demanded a trade to Cleveland, what would hyou want from the Cavs?" It isn't happening. Dallas fans are living in this dreamworld where LeBron DEMANDS to be dealt to Dallas. That isn't happening. There are so many options out there, why would LeBron limit himself to one like Dallas?

Even if LeBron does demand that, Cleveland is not going to agree to the deal. Dallas has nothing Cleveland would want for LeBron. It's just not happening.

I'm not living in a dreamworld. I didn't start this thread either (I agree it was a dumb way to open up the topic). I don't think Lebron is coming here. All I'm doing is explaining that Dallas is a possible destination for all of these FA's because we do have a package that would be appealing to teams looking to rebuild.