Retro POY '99-00 (Voting Complete)

[NO-KG-AI]

I'd like to hear more thoughts on Zo. I don't really let others opinions sway me that much, but I feel like if you and I are this far apart on Zo, I might want to re-evaluate my position.

[bastillon]

2.Alonzo
3.Garnett
4.Karl Malone
5.Payton

HM: Reggie, Vince, Kobe, Duncan

[fanofthegreats]

Stopped by to say this is a very nice project. I've enjoyed reading a lot of the discussion from the years that have been voted on.

[Sedale Threatt]

Not to high on Reggie even though he was great, I believe he deserves an HM, but definitely not individually better than the likes of KG, Payton, or Kobe.

Agreed. He was pretty one-dimensional compared to the others. Granted, he was outstanding at that one dimension, but other than shooting, what does he bring?

Other than a really good postseason, I'm not seeing a case for him at all. Certainly not at the expense of two of those guys.

[bballcool34]

Garnett singlehandedly won that game, no one else could have made that shot.Anyway, to stop derailing the thread, I'm not feeling the Malone love at all, I mean, if you value 5-10 games that high, I guess I can see putting him over KG because he had a good first round, but I really can't see justification for him over Zo.

I can't see Payton over Zo or KG, because it's clear his defense wasn't even on the level of a dominant guard defensively, much less a big.

What? No he didn't, he made a clutch shot, but was sub-par offensively all night.....Pierce and Rondo won the Celtics that game....

anyways, as an outsider, I think Hill deserves some more consideration this year....

[Doctor MJ]

Edited

[Sedale Threatt]

Two straight sweeps for Shaq. Impressive.

[Silver Bullet]

Dr MJ - did you not count my vote ? I had Iverson 2nd ...

[Doctor MJ]

Dr MJ - did you not count my vote ? I had Iverson 2nd ...

Whoops missed Iverson.

[semi-sentient]

Site updated: http://www.dolem.com/poy

Shaq moves into 2nd place all-time, but still a ways behind Duncan. I don't think he'll be able to make up that much ground in 7 years, especially when he's had some seasons where he missed quite a bit of time. Duncan will surely be adding to his total for his 98-99 performance, and his lead could actually grow.

[mysticbb]

Site updated: http://www.dolem.com/poy

Shaq moves into 2nd place all-time, but still a ways behind Duncan.

Interesting. Our player of the decade for the 00's would be Duncan ahead of O'Neal and Bryant. I can agree with that order.

[Silver Bullet]

Site updated: http://www.dolem.com/poy

Shaq moves into 2nd place all-time, but still a ways behind Duncan.

Interesting. Our player of the decade for the 00's would be Duncan ahead of O'Neal and Bryant. I can agree with that order.

Iverson at 14 behind Paul - who's had maybe 2 elite seasons is a crime.

Mourning at no. 11, despite having played only 1 year the whole decade at a high level.

[mysticbb]

Iverson at 14 behind Paul - who's had maybe 2 elite seasons is a crime.

Mourning at no. 11, despite having played only 1 year the whole decade at a high level.

Well, that is more a result of our approach only to vote for 5 players. I wouldn't put much into it after the Top 4 or Top 5 anyway, but the Top3 is looking rather accurate.

[Silver Bullet]

Iverson at 14 behind Paul - who's had maybe 2 elite seasons is a crime.

Mourning at no. 11, despite having played only 1 year the whole decade at a high level.

Well, that is more a result of our approach only to vote for 5 players. I wouldn't put much into it after the Top 4 or Top 5 anyway, but the Top3 is looking rather accurate.

Well, I don't know about Mourning or Paul - but I think Iverson got shafted because of this new age tendency to focus too much on efficiency.

[mysticbb]

Well, I don't know about Mourning or Paul - but I think Iverson got shafted because of this new age tendency to focus too much on efficiency.

How many Top5 seasons had Iverson during those years? Two? And you can argue for 2005 that Iverson didn't do much in the playoffs which would deserve him to go up. In 2001 he was voted 4th overall, and there is not the slightest chance I pick Iverson in that season over O'Neal, Duncan or Bryant. We saw what Bryant usually done without Shaquille O'Neal, and that was offensively more efficient and defensively for sure better than what Iverson did in that year.
Overall I can't really say "Iverson got shafted".

[Silver Bullet]

Well, I don't know about Mourning or Paul - but I think Iverson got shafted because of this new age tendency to focus too much on efficiency.

How many Top5 seasons had Iverson during those years? Two? And you can argue for 2005 that Iverson didn't do much in the playoffs which would deserve him to go up. In 2001 he was voted 4th overall, and there is not the slightest chance I pick Iverson in that season over O'Neal, Duncan or Bryant. We saw what Bryant usually done without Shaquille O'Neal, and that was offensively more efficient and defensively for sure better than what Iverson did in that year.
Overall I can't really say "Iverson got shafted".

Well, I'm not saying he should be above Shaq - but outside of 00-01, he's only on 3 ballots...

[semi-sentient]

The top 3 isn't really accurate. It's widely accepted that Shaq is behind Duncan and Kobe, and while I have Duncan at #1, Kobe was named the athlete/player of the decade by the media (don't recall which publications). I believe the polls on RealGM also had Shaq in 3rd.

Guys like Garnett and CP3 being overrated in 07-08 was definitely costly for Kobe.

[An Unbiased Fan]

The top 3 isn't really accurate. It's widely accepted that Shaq is behind Duncan and Kobe, and while I have Duncan at #1, Kobe was named the athlete/player of the decade by the media (don't recall which publications). I believe the polls on RealGM also had Shaq in 3rd.

Guys like Garnett and CP3 being overrated in 07-08 was definitely costly for Kobe.

I think Kobe got shafted (I know, big surprise), but that's to be expected because he's very polarizing. In 2008 he got 4 4th place votes & 7 3rd place votes.

I did find it facsinating how the arguments changed from year to year though. In 08' his Finals made people drop him bigtime, yet in other years, people get a pass for bad 1st rounds. In 06' he didn't have PS success, yet that didn't factor in with others. Meh, it's a shame, but expected.

[Gongxi]

I think there were more double standards on the part of his proponents than on the part of everyone else. This Kobe thing that kinda rose with the proliferation of the internet is very quixotic to me. There's a large group of people trying to make him out as more than what he is, another, smaller group trying to minimize his accomplishments, and a huge array of people in the middle just thinking WTF are these guys talking about?

[mysticbb]

Well, I'm not saying he should be above Shaq - but outside of 00-01, he's only on 3 ballots...

Iverson was Top5 in MVP voting only twice in the whole decade, in 2001 and 2005. I can understand an argument him getting not enough votes in 2001, but in 2005 he was closer to being out of the Top5 anyway. Imho his 4th place in our voting in 2001 is fair, because, as I said, I don't think that he was any better than O'Neal, Duncan and Bryant.

@semi

I have to say that I much rather have the first 6 years of Shaquille O'Neal for that decade than 10 years of Bryant. Well, that might explain why I think it is rather accurate. I personally don't care what the media is saying about that. If we would swap the years and 2000 to 2002 would be the most recent ones and 2007 to 2009 would 10 to 8 years ago, I'm sure the voting would have Shaquille O'Neal ahead of Bryant AND Duncan. People can't really remember anymore how dominant O'Neal really was, but they focus on "gossip" stuff for the earlier years as you might have noticed in the discussion. O'Neal's peak was GOAT like for about 3 to 4 years, neither Duncan nor Bryant were close to that in their respective peaks.

WTF are these guys talking about?

Exactly what I'm thinking. ;)