ImageImageImageImageImage

The LeBron Thread

Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

User avatar
Invictus
Starter
Posts: 2,263
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Location: NYC
   

Re: The LeBron Thread 

Post#201 » by Invictus » Wed May 19, 2010 5:52 pm

willbcocks wrote:You're referring to this as Ozanian's expert breakdown: "They cannot pay James with MSG stock because it would violate the league's collective bargaining agreement. But there is nothing to stop James from buying shares of MSG with his money. This would allow James to in essence work for himself and capture the upside in revenue from higher ratings on the MSG RSN, a soon-to-be renovated Madison Square Garden and much higher profits he will bring to these platforms." .....?

If there's any complicated economic or legal analysis, I missed it.

I am not a lawyer, but Lebron would put himself at risk if he purchased a lot of MSG stock immediately before signing. The risk would be both legal (insider trading) and PR--this would make him look very cynical and be another punch to his already reeling image.

He could certainly purchase stock after signing. And the stock could make him a lot of money. But there's no reason to suspect it would make him any more money than if he purchased an S&P 500 index fund. The fact that his play could increase the value of the stock is not an advantage exclusive to him -- anyone else can invest in MSG as well. And since investments are speculative, the value of the stock, and the price LBJ would have to pay to purchase it, would increase immediately upon him signing with NY. For Lebron, as for anyone, investing in MSG will carry the same risk/reward as any other stock (unless he pulls a sketchy deal by purchasing stock before signing).


I am a finance professional (have worked at 3 investment banks) and this statement is incorrect. The point is not whether the stock would outperform a spydr or any other security, the point is whether it is worthwhile for james to gain EXPOSURE to the risks and rewards that pertain specifically to MSG stock. It's irrelevant if everyone on this board can buy the stock the same time James does. It's irrelevant because if 1000 of us purchase the stock the same day james does, then out of the 1001 people who buy the stock, only James is gaining exposure to risks and rewards that he himself can drive, both directly (i.e., winning championship) or indirectly. None of us can say that and thus none of us benefit from the exposure as much as Lebron. Simply put, Lebron can exert much more "control" over this exposure than we as the average investor can. In other words, we are by default passive participants, Lebron is by default an ACTIVE participant. In theory it would behoove the rest of the knick roster to buy stock as well, since they share the exact same criteria.

Lebron would be diverting some of his salary/savings into MSG stock if he decides to purchase it. Many average Joes do the same thing, or rather they are forced to do this by the company, which gives them benefits in stock. Companies don't do this because it makes employees richer than giving them cash. If it did, companies would keep the stock themselves. Moreover, they force employees to hold it for a certain number of years or until retirement, precisely because employees might be tempted to sell it as they gain no particular advantage from holding their own company's stock. Companies create these programs because it makes employees invested in the company. They want to work harder and make it succeed.


It depends on the company. Majority of the companies that offer stock options to employees don't offer it for "motivational" purposes but rather because stock compensation is quite different from outright salary expense, particularly when it comes to cash expenses. If you're a company, would you rather pay your employees 1 million in salaray/cash, or pay them in stock options worth 1 million? the choice is quite obvious. Holding onto a stock is also a moot point because there are literally dozens if not hundreds of financial instruments that allow you to trade exposure of one asset for another. therefore if james really wanted to he could buy the stock, decide he doesn't want the exposure, and instead of selling it he simply enters into a contract where he gives the counterparty exposure to the knick stock in exchange for exposure in something else.

Lebron could buy stock as a motivational tool, but that's about the only effect I can see coming from this.


False. As mentioned above, the msg stock is just as speculative as any other stock. But lebron cannot directly influence the value of wwe stock or shares in warner brothers. if lebron invests $100 in msg stock in january and $100 in WWE stock in the same month...which one does he have more control over in terms of risk/reward exposure? Fast forward to July and the Knicks have won a championship, having extended MSG ticket sales, merchandise, etc. from April into June, whereas Wrestlemania (which occurs in March/April) generates a disappointing revenue gate...which one creates more wealth as a result of James' direct involvement? In which scenario can James exert maximum effort to minimize his risk? This is just a specific example but I chose the timing of two different significant events (wrestlemania for WWE stock, NBA playoffs for MSG ticket proceeds) to illustrate my point in a general sense.

More money, however, will not come from MSG stock.
There's no qualification or reasoning that you have given to support this statement.
bringinhinkie
General Manager
Posts: 9,786
And1: 930
Joined: Apr 01, 2006
Location: knicks
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 

Post#202 » by bringinhinkie » Wed May 19, 2010 5:55 pm

figured id throw this is the bron thread rather than make a new 1.. nets russian owner on with francessa atm.. should be good

he actually said he first tried to purchase the knicks
User avatar
GaLLo4THrEE
Junior
Posts: 380
And1: 0
Joined: May 14, 2010

Re: The LeBron Thread 

Post#203 » by GaLLo4THrEE » Wed May 19, 2010 6:00 pm

RHODEY wrote:http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/magic_king_dom_tfZtmYakE1aDUb5hBcTkTK

Just to counter the Jordan nonsense...



LOL at the date of the article.....a lot has changed since man.

Bulls could not even afford him back then.
Curryy
Banned User
Posts: 954
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Location: 'Narsie

ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#204 » by Curryy » Wed May 19, 2010 6:06 pm

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/ ... _GM_bucher

Anyone got access to this and can post?
Starbury316
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,350
And1: 111
Joined: Oct 07, 2005
Location: Brooklyn, Ny
Contact:
       

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#205 » by Starbury316 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:12 pm

But if getting James, The Player, means having to take on James, The GM, that's a trickier proposition.

Unless, of course, your team would happily take what James and the Cavaliers have done for the past seven years: five playoff appearances, including one unsuccessful run to the NBA Finals. Some teams (see: the New York Knicks) no doubt would, in light of where they've been for the past decade. Just know that the Cavs are where they are -- capped out with a modicum of trading chips -- because the team power structure supposedly has looked like this: owner Dan Gilbert, GM Danny Ferry and head coach Mike Brown.

With James standing just below Gilbert and just above Ferry.

"Do you acquiesce to a superstar?" says one assistant GM. "If you're going to let him choose his coach and decide who the No. 2 player is, that's acquiescing in a way that hurts his franchise."


Post edited.
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 25,250
And1: 22,766
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: The LeBron Thread 

Post#206 » by RHODEY » Wed May 19, 2010 6:12 pm

GaLLo4THrEE wrote:
RHODEY wrote:http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/magic_king_dom_tfZtmYakE1aDUb5hBcTkTK

Just to counter the Jordan nonsense...



LOL at the date of the article.....a lot has changed since man.

Bulls could not even afford him back then.


Yes but what hasnt changed id the BOSH + LEBRON +GALLO and EDDIES expiring offer better dynasty potential IMO. New York still offfers better earning and ICON status potential.

Really Chicago with Bron is no better than Cleveland with Bron. Rose is better than MO but worse of a fit, Chicago has no post scoring and rely on NOAH as their sole big. NOAH versus HICKSON, POWE, SHAQ, BIG Z, and VAREJO?.... Tell me how that is the team of dynasties and tell me how that team improves in the short term?
bringinhinkie
General Manager
Posts: 9,786
And1: 930
Joined: Apr 01, 2006
Location: knicks
 

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#207 » by bringinhinkie » Wed May 19, 2010 6:13 pm

id assume it just speaks of how easily a gm could be forced into listening to him/trying to please him instead of doing what is best for the team's success not only in the present but the future..

ie:cavs wanted to win now ultimately to win a ring and force him to stay, they then signed andy longterm/moon/parker rather than waiting an extra season and offering a max/near max to bosh,etc

kind of like when a coach gets involved in gming, it never works (isiah).. leave the gming to the gm, coaching to the coach, playing to the players-its proven to work year after year

same goes with coaching, we always heard lebron (and the assistant) coached the cavs, not mike brown

edit: ^^^^ posted this a few seconds after he posted article, lets see how i did :lol:
User avatar
j4remi
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 38,267
And1: 20,261
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
         

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#208 » by j4remi » Wed May 19, 2010 6:21 pm

Did they really say Lebron isn't a good go to scorer at the end of games and needs a finisher?
PG- Haliburton | Schroder | Sasser
SG- Grimes | Dick | Bogdanovic
SF- Bridges | George
PF- Hunter |Strus| Fleming
C- Turner | Powell | Wiseman
User avatar
Invictus
Starter
Posts: 2,263
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Location: NYC
   

Article: Knicks are best fit for Lebron in terms of shooting 

Post#209 » by Invictus » Wed May 19, 2010 6:21 pm

From the site basketballprospectus.com. I'm not familiar with the site or with its objectivity...but the article just came out today. This isn't news or a rumor pertaining to Lebron, merely statistical analysis that was just released. There's no discussion going on right now backed by statistical analysis of this kind so i thought it should be in it's own thread.I haven't read the whole methodology behind the report but here is the gist:

Since we last took a look at the top contenders in the summer of 2010 free-agent derby in March, much has changed. It was always my intent to update that column after the NBA Draft Lottery, when we had clarity about where several of these teams would pick. The timing also works well because speculation about LeBron James changing teams has reached a fever pitch following Cleveland's early exit from the playoffs. Lastly, the cap projection has grown more optimistic, giving several teams more flexibility.

The most important difference here, however, might be something that has nothing to do with any of these teams but simply the way I'm evaluating them. As I introduced in my awards column, I'm moving toward an updated version of WARP that credits three-point shooters for their ability to space the floor. While the transition is not complete, and will not be until next season at the very earliest, I thought it would be appropriate to redo the player projections using these new and improved ratings that better value perimeter players relative to their interior counterparts.

As a reminder, the goal is this: Trying to put some data behind what is by nature the very subjective question of what is the best destination for the superstars expected to become free agents this summer (James most notable among the group, which also includes Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh) by rating the future prospects of the teams with space to sign a max free agent. Now, it's important to note that team quality is surely just one of many factors that will go into these players' decisions of where to continue to career, but of them it's the only one we can really quantify.


http://www.basketballprospectus.com/art ... cleid=1136

Post edited.
Curryy
Banned User
Posts: 954
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Location: 'Narsie

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#210 » by Curryy » Wed May 19, 2010 6:21 pm

Thanks Starbury,

I agree what that article for the most part.

To sum it up,

LeBron can't be your GM, Coach & All-Star player all at once. LeBron as God wouldn't work out.

Tru Tru.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,242
And1: 25,699
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#211 » by moocow007 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:24 pm

I'm ok with the Knicks being Lebron's biatches...you guys? :D
Esq-4
Veteran
Posts: 2,545
And1: 319
Joined: Dec 05, 2008

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#212 » by Esq-4 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:24 pm

Interesting point about MJ and Magic. And true, to an extent. I don't agree that Magic couldn't take over and finish. I don't think James necessarily needs other to finish for him, I think he needs other that that can consistently step up, and then when the game is on the line he steps up and finishes off.

One of the few articles saying he wouldn't be a good fit with Amare or Bosh.

The first mistake anyone could make is say they are trying to make someone the next MJ. That is true for LBJ, Wade and even Kobe. Although not just the position, but the style of game that Wade and Kobe play mirror MJ more closely than LBJ. And thats find, he is the first LBJ and that enough has the potential to make him the best ever...someday....maybe

It also brings up a fear about CHI landing LBJ. He wants to be better than and eclipse MJ...where better than CHI...idk, just not the right train of thought IMO.
bringinhinkie
General Manager
Posts: 9,786
And1: 930
Joined: Apr 01, 2006
Location: knicks
 

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#213 » by bringinhinkie » Wed May 19, 2010 6:25 pm

j4remi wrote:Did they really say Lebron isn't a good go to scorer at the end of games and needs a finisher?


its espn.. skip bayless just the other day said lebron didnt have 1st option intangibles :lol:

espn is gaaaaaahbage
Esq-4
Veteran
Posts: 2,545
And1: 319
Joined: Dec 05, 2008

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#214 » by Esq-4 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:26 pm

Sucks for CLE if he leaves. They are stuck with a team that they don't want, that was made just to appease a kid in his early 20's, just b/c of his on the court talent.
Curryy
Banned User
Posts: 954
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Location: 'Narsie

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#215 » by Curryy » Wed May 19, 2010 6:26 pm

LMFAO! DID SKIP REALLY SAY THAT?!

HAHAHHAHA.

Wow.

That was funny.
bringinhinkie
General Manager
Posts: 9,786
And1: 930
Joined: Apr 01, 2006
Location: knicks
 

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#216 » by bringinhinkie » Wed May 19, 2010 6:26 pm

moocow007 wrote:I'm ok with the Knicks being Lebron's biatches...you guys? :D


hahaaaaa no doubt

i cant stop thinking how much id want jvg back to coach though, and im not even a d'antoni hater, just van gundy is such a good coach and hed be a fool not to come if we signed lbj
User avatar
K_ick_God
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 80,879
And1: 43,336
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: Article: Knicks are best fit for Lebron in terms of shooting 

Post#217 » by K_ick_God » Wed May 19, 2010 6:28 pm

Basketball Prospectus is very credible.

Baseball Prospectus is a leading source for statistical analyses on baseball. Same company.

Looks like the statistical analyses favor the Knicks, and all the ESPN idio-haters (like that combo?) and their groundless gut feelings all favor the Bulls. What a shocker!
bringinhinkie
General Manager
Posts: 9,786
And1: 930
Joined: Apr 01, 2006
Location: knicks
 

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#218 » by bringinhinkie » Wed May 19, 2010 6:28 pm

Curryy wrote:LMFAO! DID SKIP REALLY SAY THAT?!

HAHAHHAHA.

Wow.

That was funny.


he goes something like "dwight howard does not have batman intangibles, he has to be the robin, just like lebron james"

hes an actor, not an analyst, says crazy sh*t to get attention, prolly has a script
Esq-4
Veteran
Posts: 2,545
And1: 319
Joined: Dec 05, 2008

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#219 » by Esq-4 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:28 pm

Well I guess in NY LBJ would be the defensive coach too then?
bringinhinkie
General Manager
Posts: 9,786
And1: 930
Joined: Apr 01, 2006
Location: knicks
 

Re: ESPN: "The Trouble w/ LeBron" 

Post#220 » by bringinhinkie » Wed May 19, 2010 6:28 pm

Esq-4 wrote:Well I guess in NY LBJ would be the defensive coach too then?


gm, coach, star player, knick city dancer

Return to New York Knicks