The Official Rebuildation Thread

deviljets7 · Post #81 » by **deviljets7** » Fri May 14, 2010 12:12 am

I think Batum's getting a bit overhyped, but this is a deal I'd probably pull the trigger on, regardless of what happens in the lottery.

SteveNets15 · Post #82 » by **SteveNets15** » Fri May 14, 2010 4:05 am

Devin
Lee/Twill
Turner/CDR
Amar'e
Brook

^^^^^I'd rather build around these players if we get the #2 pick.

Preludepunk27 · Post #83 » by **Preludepunk27** » Fri May 14, 2010 7:23 pm

I like Batum a lot, but I'd take a Twill/Turner combo over Batum any day.

One thing to think about hypothetically. Look at our roster if we landed Turner and Amare. Is it me or are our wing players perfect for the Triangle? Twill is the second coming of Ron Harper and Turner has the potential to have a Scottie Pippen-like career too.

If only we had an owner willing to pay any amount of money for a coach like Phil Jackson....waaaaaaaaaait a minute....we have an owner like that now!

SteveNets15 · Post #84 » by **SteveNets15** » Fri May 14, 2010 7:38 pm

^^^^^^Stop getting me all hyped up over here I'm tryna work.

S.I.C. GM · Post #85 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Fri May 14, 2010 7:56 pm

Unless Harris completely changes his game this off season, I dont see how he makes these kids better. Harris has no leadership skills. Harris has bad shot selection (running ahead & pulling up for 3s and Blackhole Moments). Harris plays no defense to help influence the young guys. Harris lacks court vision (takes forever to set up Lopez in the post, refuses to pass to open man on the break and timing on pick & rolls is off. Alley oops to center is off too. He is lucky that 7ft lopez saves him everytime). Is Harris ready to take a back seat again? I doubt it.

Preludepunk27 · Post #86 » by **Preludepunk27** » Fri May 14, 2010 8:08 pm

I've said that before too. Harris can not be THE LEADER of any team. He needs to be coached well and have a good leader on the court with him too. As much as I love our team and think we have a ton of potential in our young guys, I don't see anyone that could be THE LEADER. Brook has potential but, leadership-wise, I don't think he'll get there and their is nothing wrong with that as long as he produces on the court, but if this team ever wants to become a contender again, we need a player like Jason Kidd again that expects to win every single game no matter what it takes.

Chris Paul has that instinct which is why his injury doesn't bother me. He'll work his tail off harder than anyone to make sure his knee will not be an issue.

demens · Post #87 » by **demens** » Fri May 14, 2010 10:31 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:Unless Harris completely changes his game this off season, I dont see how he makes these kids better. Harris has no leadership skills. Harris has bad shot selection (running ahead & pulling up for 3s and Blackhole Moments). Harris plays no defense to help influence the young guys. Harris lacks court vision (takes forever to set up Lopez in the post, refuses to pass to open man on the break and timing on pick & rolls is off. Alley oops to center is off too. He is lucky that 7ft lopez saves him everytime). Is Harris ready to take a back seat again? I doubt it.

I think you're half-wrong on half of that and completely wrong on the rest.

Harris needs a coach (like Avery who you all hate for some reason) that will MAKE him play defense and MAKE him make good decisions. I didn't like some of the crap Harris pulled this season and i'm not making an excuse, but this team had no direction or leadership ANYWHERE. If he decided he was a 1 man fast break and pulled up for a 3, yeah it was bad, but probably not much worst then whatever other play the Nets were going to run anyway.

I totally disagree that Harris lacks court visions. His passing is fine and totally underrated. It takes forever to set up Lopez in the post because Lopez is NEVER open in the post. Most of the alley oops were on target, that and the pick and rolls were actually 2 of the most effective plays the Nets ran. He did start throwing a few of them over the back board at the end of the season, but for the most part they were dead on.

SteveNets15 · Post #88 » by **SteveNets15** » Sat May 15, 2010 3:30 am

Devin Harris is not a #1 option on a team.Put some talent around him where he can be the 2nd or 3rd option and you'll be lovin him again.He was an ALLSTAR! when he had VC to take some pressure off him.He might not be a leader but he'll give us 20ppg and 8apg easily and i'll take that allday.AND since you brought it up,I want Brook to work on getting stronger and being more aggressive when fighting for position.He has to get to his spot and keep his spot once he gets there.It's ridiculous how many times I seen him get bumped out to the 3 point line almost.

I'm not some big Devin Harris fan but if we don't get Wall I'm fine moving forward with him.If we get Wall then he's gone, I'm ok with that to.

demens · Post #89 » by **demens** » Sat May 15, 2010 3:33 pm

stevieboy wrote:Devin Harris is not a #1 option on a team.Put some talent around him where he can be the 2nd or 3rd option and you'll be lovin him again.He was an ALLSTAR! when he had VC to take some pressure off him.He might not be a leader but he'll give us 20ppg and 8apg easily and i'll take that allday.AND since you brought it up,I want Brook to work on getting stronger and being more aggressive when fighting for position.He has to get to his spot and keep his spot once he gets there.It's ridiculous how many times I seen him get bumped out to the 3 point line almost.

I'm not some big Devin Harris fan but if we don't get Wall I'm fine moving forward with him.If we get Wall then he's gone, I'm ok with that to.

100% agreed.

Post #90 » by **jerseyjac** » Mon May 17, 2010 8:29 pm

demens wrote:
S.I.C. GM wrote:Unless Harris completely changes his game this off season, I dont see how he makes these kids better. Harris has no leadership skills. Harris has bad shot selection (running ahead & pulling up for 3s and Blackhole Moments). Harris plays no defense to help influence the young guys. Harris lacks court vision (takes forever to set up Lopez in the post, refuses to pass to open man on the break and timing on pick & rolls is off. Alley oops to center is off too. He is lucky that 7ft lopez saves him everytime). Is Harris ready to take a back seat again? I doubt it.

I think you're half-wrong on half of that and completely wrong on the rest.

Harris needs a coach (like Avery who you all hate for some reason) that will MAKE him play defense and MAKE him make good decisions. I didn't like some of the crap Harris pulled this season and i'm not making an excuse, but this team had no direction or leadership ANYWHERE. If he decided he was a 1 man fast break and pulled up for a 3, yeah it was bad, but probably not much worst then whatever other play the Nets were going to run anyway.

I totally disagree that Harris lacks court visions. His passing is fine and totally underrated. It takes forever to set up Lopez in the post because Lopez is NEVER open in the post. Most of the alley oops were on target, that and the pick and rolls were actually 2 of the most effective plays the Nets ran. He did start throwing a few of them over the back board at the end of the season, but for the most part they were dead on.

demens wrote:
stevieboy wrote:Devin Harris is not a #1 option on a team.Put some talent around him where he can be the 2nd or 3rd option and you'll be lovin him again.He was an ALLSTAR! when he had VC to take some pressure off him.He might not be a leader but he'll give us 20ppg and 8apg easily and i'll take that allday.AND since you brought it up,I want Brook to work on getting stronger and being more aggressive when fighting for position.He has to get to his spot and keep his spot once he gets there.It's ridiculous how many times I seen him get bumped out to the 3 point line almost.

I'm not some big Devin Harris fan but if we don't get Wall I'm fine moving forward with him.If we get Wall then he's gone, I'm ok with that to.

100% agreed.

I think SIC/John Wall is talking there...I'm fine too going forward with Harris, but as far why I dont like Avery w/ Harris is because it failed in Dallas, no?

vincecarter4pres · Post #91 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu May 20, 2010 12:56 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:So I was thinking about another couple interesting scenarios. I have a feeling I'm gonna get lit up for suggesting these, but think about it, it makes some sense...

Scenario #1

So say we land the second overall pick and draft Evan Turner...

New Orleans sends:
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor

NJ sends:
Brook Lopez
Terrence Williams
Yi Jianlian
Kris Humphries
Chris Douglas-Roberts

Why?
IF NOH decides to trade Paul, this is pretty serious value. They have Collison already, who could be their future at the point, so they don't necessarily need a point guard in return.
They get a possible franchise center and a really nice wing prospect and silly amount of instant salary relief and a ton of long term relief as well, plus useful expirings and a look at CDR.
For us, we get our franchise player at point, keep our pick and pick up a very reliable, yet very overpaid defensive center. We would have a gaping hole at PF and no post presence on offense, but we would retain about 11 million of our cap space to go after Boozer, or we could do some type of S&T for an Amar'e or Bosh with Devin. If we signed Boozer we could do the often talked about Devin for expiring(TJ Ford or Jeff Foster) and the #10 pick with Indianna and I think they would have to throw in Rush.

There are a lot of different lineups depending on draft and what we do with Devin, here's one...
PG Chris Paul
SG Evan Turner
SF Brandon Rush
PF Carlos Boozer
C Emeka Okafor
Bench: Courtney Lee, Jeff Foster or TJ Ford, Ekpe Udoh or Patrick Patterson, Elliot Williams, cheap FA signings

That bench is pretty young, but it would only be for one season, till we had the MLE and BAE.

Scenario #2

Say we wind up with the #3 overall pick...

New Orleans sends:
Chris Paul
David West

NJ sends:
Brook Lopez
Terrence Williams
Yi Jianlian
Kris Humphries
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Future 1st(s)

Why?
Same scenario as above for NOH.
For us, basically the same, but we draft our new center in DeMarcus Cousins and get our starting power forward included in the trade in David West. We have a little extra cap room in this deal, to the tune of about 14.5 million. We then attempt to go after Joe Johnson, although this maybe serious over kill. If that's the case we go after a Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, Anthony Morrow, Mike Miller, etc. and then fill out the bench more properly with the remaining space. Or we could start one of Courtney Lee or Rush at the 2 and go after Rudy Gay at the 3. We would still have the 10th, 27th and 31st picks on the bench as well. I'll do three starting lineups for this one, you guys use your imaginations for the bench...

PG Chris Paul
SG Joe Johnson
SF Brandon Rush
PF David West
C DeMarcus Cousins

PG Chris Paul
SG Ray Allen
SF Brandon Rush
PF David West
C DeMarcus Cousins

PG Chris Paul
SG Courtney Lee
SF Rudy Gay
PF David West
C DeMarcus Cousins

Thoughts?

So, scenario #2 is actually now a little more realistic and everyone kind of ignored this one the first time around, so what do you guys think?

Jersey Generals · Post #92 » by **Jersey Generals** » Thu May 20, 2010 1:06 am

I don't see them taking Lopez, T-Will, and crap for their two best players.

treiz · Post #93 » by **treiz** » Thu May 20, 2010 1:12 am

^That, especially since they're going to have some financial stability now

vincecarter4pres · Post #94 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu May 20, 2010 1:26 am

Yeah, with their new owner I highly doubt Paul is traded, but I think that value is pretty sick if they did decide to move him. Financial savings can not be overlooked in trades either, they are a huge motivator and asset and they get two premium young guys. On top of that, David West doesn't have nearly the trade value it seems on the surface.

Adam1221 · Post #95 » by **Adam1221** » Thu May 20, 2010 1:28 am

People need to back off Harris he's a fantastic PG, top 5 if healthy going forward.
What we need to do this season is surround him with better talent that's it, Ive seen several Nets fan's giving him the "what have you done for me lately treatment" this season and it made me quite sick.

First of all he was injured all year (which is a problem, but with working to get stronger this year he should be fine).
Ive seen people accuse him of being a ball hog and that's just BS, anyone that actually watched him play this year could tell that his court vision has greatly improved and hey averaging 7 APG is a lot considering who he was playing with.
People would beg him to play D, but how can you expect a guy to play elite level D without a coach all season? Not to mention the fact that he almost had to carry an offense all by himself.

Basically what Im saying is that Harris will only be as good as the talent we surround him with he's a fantastic 2nd/3rd option but not a #1 option on any self respecting team and considering his contract (which is fantastic for a player of his caliber) he's definitely a part of the turnaround here.
I believe a true coach can get him to play D again.

vincecarter4pres · Post #96 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu May 20, 2010 2:00 am

I like Harris a lot, but's he not a fantastic point guard and he's not top 5.

You say you have to surround him with talent, but he's not a player you build around. You have to first get elite talent and then surround that player with guys like Harris. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics though.

I would say he's an OK to good 3rd option, a very good to fantastic 4th option, but definitely not a 2nd option, he has proven that one for sure.

I agree, it seemed his court vision and passing, along with willingness to pass improved last season, although he never got the chance to really show it off.

One of the major problems with Devin Harris and players like him, is he is injury prone though and guys like that are tough to build with, it's just a fact.

That said, I'm not one of the guys that blames Harris or gets on him, but if you have the chance for a wildly lopsided upgrade you make it, Harris doesn't compare to a player like Paul in the least.

That also said, I personally have no problem going forward with Harris.

Jersey Generals · Post #97 » by **Jersey Generals** » Thu May 20, 2010 2:08 am

I'm not highh on shipping Harris out, but if you get Chris Paul and need to ship Harris out for picks/prospects, you do it. Especially since if we have Chris Paul and manage to still have cap room for Lebron, it basically is the same as if we had drafted John Wall.

Paul
Crap
James
West
Cousins

Fantastic.

demens · Post #98 » by **demens** » Thu May 20, 2010 2:20 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:I would say he's an OK to good 3rd option, a very good to fantastic 4th option, but definitely not a 2nd option, he has proven that one for sure.

How is that? He was forced into the #1 option and team leader role. He couldn't handle it. He was an excellent 2nd option last year and will be again.

vincecarter4pres · Post #99 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu May 20, 2010 3:19 am

demens wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:I would say he's an OK to good 3rd option, a very good to fantastic 4th option, but definitely not a 2nd option, he has proven that one for sure.

How is that? He was forced into the #1 option and team leader role. He couldn't handle it. He was an excellent 2nd option last year and will be again.

I wouldn't exactly call someone excellent as a 2nd option on a 34 win team.
That season he basically maxed out on what he could be, at least as a scorer and his actual point guard play suffered in turn.
You do not want Harris as your legit second option unless you're looking to make the lottery or be an 8th seed in the East at absolute best, unless of course your 1st option is a Lebron, Wade, Durant, etc. and even then if Harris is your second option you are surely not a true contender.

BTW, he was the 2nd option on this team this season anyway if you want to admit it or not, Lopez was the 1st.

Rockice_8 · Post #100 » by **Rockice_8** » Thu May 20, 2010 3:42 pm

Would you guys be happy with this team next season?

Harris/Dooling
Lee/#27 (Terrico White)
Gay/T-Will
Favors/Yi
Lopez/#31 (Varnado)

Coach: Tom Thibodeau

Why? I think we have two solid scoring options in Gay and Lopez. Harris can get back to being a solid 3rd option and playing solid D and distributing more. We have solid shooters (Lee and Gay) we have a good rebounding (Favors and Lopez), a solid bench (Dooling, White, T-Will, Yi, Varnado), we would still have cap space to make another significant move (Melo), and each guy can defend their positions (Gay is an ok defender). I think this team has balance and room to grow together. It would be a fun team to watch run and defend now and into the future.

* Feel free to swap White with another shooter of your choice at #27.