Mavs - Cavs trade

[microfib4thewin]

The Lakers traded Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie all who had expiring contracts. A prospect in Marc Gasol (who had zero minutes in the NBA) and two first round picks.

The Gasol trade was a pure salary dump because he was owed 51 million for 3 more years, and Heisley was too cheap to keep him when the team was slated to a 20 win season. Lebron isn't owed anything if he opts out and the Cavs with Lebron is a contender. These two differences are huge since that means the Cavs has very little incentive to get rid of Lebron.

Hell, Shaq got traded for Wally **** Szczerbiak.

Shaq was already approaching 38 and is recognized as a very limited role player. How old is Lebron again?

I never said that Dallas has more leverage than a team with capspace at all. I've continued stating that Lebron has most of the leverage in this situation. I've also stated that if Lebron decides to walk, the Cavs would be better off in any sort of sign and trade then letting him walk for absolutely nothing. It would also be better for him financially because he gets the 6 year deal instead of the 5 year one.

Two things:

1. The Cavs doesn't care how much Lebron is paid for. He's definitely worth the max so they have no problem keeping him even if his max is $30 mil in starting salary. If he goes elsewhere, then the Cavs couldn't care less what kind of contract he obtained.

2. Lebron-less Cavs without Roddy - 35 wins with a bleak future. Lebron-less Cavs with Roddy - 35 wins with a bleak future. If Roddy becomes the next Kobe then this S&T without dumping Mo or Jamison would make sense, but for every Kobe there are 15 Julian Wrights. He hasn't played enough to warrant he will turn out into a star player. If he is at best just a solid starter, then the Cavs has no reason to do this deal because he's not going to change the franchise in any way. Late picks are assets of little worth when the team could struggle to make playoffs.

When the S&T package is too insignificant to help the team now or in the future, then there is no point of doing a S&T. No Mavs fans would say S&Ting Dirk for a 2nd rounder is a return they would accept, coincidentally, two late picks and Roddy is such a small recuperation for the loss of Lebron the Cavs can pass on it and still sleep at night.

[CDansby]

Agree to disagree. This is all pointless anyway. No one knows what's going to happen except Lebron. We're going to have to wait a while and I don't feel like keeping up with this thread for the next two months. I'm done.

[RRT]

when did Shaq get traded for Wally **** Szczerbiak???

[FAB0L0US]

The Lakers traded Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie all who had expiring contracts. A prospect in Marc Gasol (who had zero minutes in the NBA) and two first round picks. Hell, Shaq got traded for Wally **** Szczerbiak. These things happen. The package I'm purposing is exactly the same as the one the Lakers purposed in the Pau trade.

So your example of "these things happen" is what as universally regarded as one of the worst basketball trades ever, one that gift wrapped LA one championship and possibly more, here? You think any GM wants to become Chris Wallace 2.0? Yes, your case is indeed strong.

And Shaq barely never got "traded" just like Wilt never got "traded." They ran themselves out of town with bad attitudes and greed and were dumped on other teams for peanuts. You do pretended to know about basketball, dont you?

hahahahahahahahaha. I've never laughed so hard at anyone on these forums. I love watching the new guys on these boards talk like they're pissed off at everyone. You seem to be a real nice guy man, I'm glad we could talk all this out.

I bet you do pretended to know about what this conversation was actually about.

I invite you to refute a single thing I have said, partner. Everything you and your fellow Mavs fans have written is complete bollocks and reveals extreme naivete.

Kevin McHale aint a GM anymore. Who in the league besides him would trade LEBRON JAMES, who is estimated by financial types to be worth more individually to an organization than a team of players, for FRIGGIN RODDY, EXPIRINGS, AND BAD CONTRACT. Who is gonna do that? Who wants to lose their job that badly?

[chakdaddy]

The Lakers traded Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie all who had expiring contracts. A prospect in Marc Gasol (who had zero minutes in the NBA) and two first round picks.

The Gasol trade was a pure salary dump because he was owed 51 million for 3 more years, and Heisley was too cheap to keep him when the team was slated to a 20 win season.

They were coming off a couple of 50 win seasons before Gasol had an injury plagued year...don't try to excuse it. They could have dumped his salary and gotten value in return but they didn't bother...that trade didn't look like much but Jerry West influenced funny business.

[CDansby]

I invite you to refute a single thing I have said, partner. Everything you and your fellow Mavs fans have written is complete bollocks and reveals extreme naivete.

Kevin McHale aint a GM anymore. Who in the league besides him would trade LEBRON JAMES, who is estimated by financial types to be worth more individually to an organization than a team of players, for FRIGGIN RODDY, EXPIRINGS, AND BAD CONTRACT. Who is gonna do that? Who wants to lose their job that badly?

You, my friend, are just a complete moron. You really aren't worth the time but if you're going to write in all caps, you must be itching for a response.

Go find me one time in this thread where I've said that I think Lebron is coming to Dallas. My only point this whole time, is that Dallas is a possible destination along with all these teams that have cap room like New York, Chicago, Miami, and LAC. All I'm trying to explain to you is why I believe that if Lebron stated he was leaving that the Cavs would be better off getting something rather than nothing. Of course you don't want to take on bad contracts, Damp's contract is nonexistent though, Roddy (yall can go ahead a say whatever you want) is a young talent, and Caron's contract is thrown in there because it is expiring and that 10 mil can be used to match any longer contracts a team may want to get rid of. This has not been a conversation about matching talent, it's about a team with any team with a big name free agent recognizing that the center of their franchise is about to leave and making a deal to help jumpstart the rebuilding process. Why would you let someone walk for nothing and continue to pay the **** supporting cast that made him want to leave when you can take the quicker financial escape route while picking up more draft picks through a S&T?

There are a lot of crazy things that would have to happen for this to be a possibility and I don't think Lebron is coming here. All I'm saying it's a possibility and trying my best to explain the incentives that teams would have. For me to be naive, I would have to believe that Lebron is coming here right?

I agree that the Pau situation was a very unique one. Now explain to me how this one isn't.

[daoneandonly]

I posted this one the trade board:

Terry/Butler/Stevenson for Brand/Iggy/Smith
Philly dumps a lot of salary and gives the keys to Turner.

Dampier/Iggy/Roddy for Lebron and Varajao or Mo

I know its a long shot won't happen, but if Cleveland wants to get anything for Lebron and keep him out of the East, its somewhat decent value, they also dump a bad contract in the process.

Obviously there is no equal value for LBJ, I'm sure Cleve doesn't even want to think trade, just a thought if the choices are him going to Chi/NY/NJ for nothing, or if they can send him to the other conference for some nice pieces

[tidho]

If LeBron is set on leaving a Dallas trade could likely be our best option.

Caron Butler is a good player and it would be worth it as long as we don't have to take Terry's deal. If it can be done with Dampier I'm on board.

Agent Zero could be had on the cheap....we'll reform the Wizzards, lol.

[CDansby]

I posted this one the trade board:

Terry/Butler/Stevenson for Brand/Iggy/Smith
Philly dumps a lot of salary and gives the keys to Turner.

Dampier/Iggy/Roddy for Lebron and Varajao or Mo

I know its a long shot won't happen, but if Cleveland wants to get anything for Lebron and keep him out of the East, its somewhat decent value, they also dump a bad contract in the process.

Obviously there is no equal value for LBJ, I'm sure Cleve doesn't even want to think trade, just a thought if the choices are him going to Chi/NY/NJ for nothing, or if they can send him to the other conference for some nice pieces

This is something that would be feasible but before we made the Howard/Butler deal we were going after Iggy and had made it clear that we wouldn't be taking on Brand's contract so I don't know if that will happen.

But....I could see us using Damp to acquire Iggy this offseason just because I don't think Philly is going to want pay him to be around the next 4 years now that they have Evan Turner coming aboard.

That's a whole other conversation though.

[gflem]

This is why the whole Dallas theme exists. It could be a suitable landing spot, and Cuban is certainly willing to move heaven and earth to do what he thinks is best. I mean he almost pulled the trigger on a deal for Sean Kemp. I believe his quote was something along the lines of "sometimes the best deals are the ones that dont happen", in regard to not getting Kemp.
I just dont believe that they have the future draft choices and current young talent (read young Big Man) to make it happen. I also think Dallas is a large enough market along with a tax friendly state that Lebron or any top tier FA would have to consider. The ownership is top notch regardless of what you may think of Cuban personally, he caters to the players and isnt concerned with the Lux Tax.
It is an attractive place to play, but I believe in order to land Lebron in a S&T it would either require Dirk to be involved (not likely) or another team (better chance but still not likely). Being that Dallas is in the west conf, this is a more desirable place to send the best player in the game if you are cornered into having to trade Lebron.
This is why I have been willing to participate in the conversations, and have tried to be more reasonable than some in this discussion. We Cavs fans have to be cognizant of the fact that Lebron may well leave, and that the world doesnt end if he does. We can and should discuss any reasonable possibility that exists. I believe there is a better chance of seeing Lebron in Dallas or even Houston before we see him in NY or NJ.
I really believe if Lebron does go it will be in a sign and trade, there is too much to be lost if he just walks without compensation. Of course if he were to try to force himself into a situation where we wouldnt get adequate (not fair, that isnt possible) compensation, I am not in favor of caving and putting the team on a treadmill of mediocrity.

[TheOUTLAW]

I have a hard time believing that anyone thinks this is a good package

Dampier/Iggy/Roddy for Lebron and Varajao or Mo

Damp is old, Iggy is good but not a first option and Beaubois is an undersized shooting guard. IMO this is LeBron, Varejao and Mo for Iguodala. Nothing else really is exciting at all.

[Gordon Bombay]

I have a hard time believing that anyone thinks this is a good package

Dampier/Iggy/Roddy for Lebron and Varajao or Mo

Damp is old, Iggy is good but not a first option and Beaubois is an undersized shooting guard. IMO this is LeBron, Varejao and Mo for Iguodala. Nothing else really is exciting at all.

we would just become philly all over again. if lebron wants to be traded to dallas, fine (it's better than new york or chicago that's for sure). just keep it simple guys with damp/butler/beaubois/2 first round picks for lebron/gibson and make sure there's destinations for mo and jamison (and maybe even varejao) for expirings

if lebron leaves, we want to blow it all to hell...not throw all of our chips into the "let's eke out an 8th place finish for the next five years" bag

[tidho]

...if lebron wants to be traded to dallas, fine (it's better than new york or chicago that's for sure). just keep it simple guys with damp/butler/beaubois/2 first round picks for lebron/gibson and make sure there's destinations for mo and jamison (and maybe even varejao) for expirings

if lebron leaves, we want to blow it all to hell...not throw all of our chips into the "let's eke out an 8th place finish for the next five years" bag

That's a pretty solid deal.
Obviously Dallas wins, but we los no matter what if LeBron wants to leave.

While I would like to move Mo no matter what LeBron does, I'm not sure there will be a reasonable landing spot for him. Jamison I have no problem hanging onto in either case. I think a new offensive system turns him right back into the 20ppg guy he's been his entire career. Sure he was a liability against the Celtics, but he wouldn't have been if we'd played him at the 3 like we should of.

[daoneandonly]

I have a hard time believing that anyone thinks this is a good package

Dampier/Iggy/Roddy for Lebron and Varajao or Mo

Damp is old, Iggy is good but not a first option and Beaubois is an undersized shooting guard. IMO this is LeBron, Varejao and Mo for Iguodala. Nothing else really is exciting at all.

Cleveland wouldn't keep Dampier. Dampier's contract is fully unguaranteed, meaning they can outright cut him and save money, or they can trade him to another team for more assets. And I only meant one of Varajao or Mo or hell even Gibson, whichever contract Cleveland wants to unload the most.

[DowJones]

This is absurd. This would be like me going to the Dallas board and saying...

"If Dirk demanded a trade to Cleveland, what would hyou want from the Cavs?" It isn't happening. Dallas fans are living in this dreamworld where LeBron DEMANDS to be dealt to Dallas. That isn't happening. There are so many options out there, why would LeBron limit himself to one like Dallas?

Even if LeBron does demand that, Cleveland is not going to agree to the deal. Dallas has nothing Cleveland would want for LeBron. It's just not happening.

I'm not living in a dreamworld. I didn't start this thread either (I agree it was a dumb way to open up the topic). I don't think Lebron is coming here. All I'm doing is explaining that Dallas is a possible destination for all of these FA's because we do have a package that would be appealing to teams looking to rebuild.

You don't have an appealing package though. That is the problem. You only have 1 good young player and he is nothing special. The Lakers could give us Bynum. I am sorry but he trumps the French kid you have.

[verbal8]

What about a 3 way trade including the Hawks and Joe Johnson?

The Hawks send Joe Johnson to the Cavs. The Cavs send LeBron and Jamesion to the Mavs. The Mavs send Dirk to the Hawks and Dampier and Beaubois to the Cavs. It leaves the Cavs with a play-off team, the Hawks get to remake their team to chase a championship. The Mavs of course get Lebron and a stretch PF to make up a little bit for the loss of Dirk.

[TheOUTLAW]

Why would the Cavs bring Atlanta into that at all. I'd much rather have Dirk than Johnson.

[mcfly1204]

What about a 3 way trade including the Hawks and Joe Johnson?

The Hawks send Joe Johnson to the Cavs. The Cavs send LeBron and Jamesion to the Mavs. The Mavs send Dirk to the Hawks and Dampier and Beaubois to the Cavs. It leaves the Cavs with a play-off team, the Hawks get to remake their team to chase a championship. The Mavs of course get Lebron and a stretch PF to make up a little bit for the loss of Dirk.

Dallas definitely needs another SF, almost as much as the Hawks need a PF... great trade.

[CDansby]

You don't have an appealing package though. That is the problem. You only have 1 good young player and he is nothing special. The Lakers could give us Bynum. I am sorry but he trumps the French kid you have.

No **** Bynum is better, but why would James want to go play with Kobe when he's on a mission to prove that he's better than him. You're missing the point, this isn't "let's go find the best package for Lebron", this conversation is solely based around the idea that Lebron tells Dan Gilbert that he wants to go to Dallas and whether or not Dallas can make that happen while helping the Cavs future.

I know this is a completely different debate, but everyone here is wayyyy too low on Roddy's potential and I find that understandable. Our coach is our weakest link, and he's the reason Roddy never saw the floor. In my opinion Roddy should have been starting at the 2 by the end of the year but Carlisle didn't run his rotations logically enough during the season to let that happen. He's better than Jet and JJ Barea right now and he's only going to get better, much better. The entire city of Dallas would laugh at you when you say he's nothing special. This city is much higher on Beaubois than we ever were on Devin Harris after his rookie year. The kid shot 50% from the floor 40% from beyond the arc and 85% from the line. He has a 42 inch vertical and a 6'10" wingspan (not an exaggeration). O ya he's also the fastest human being on the planet with a basketball in his hands. The kid's got a crazy future ahead of him.

Damp's contract alone matches what Lebron would get in the first year of a max deal, waive Damp when you get him and it means that you're getting Roddy without spending a cent on Damp's contract. Getting Roddy is better than getting nothing and it costs you nothing more than the rookie contract Roddy's on. Throw in Butler and we'll take back Jamison. Why? Because you would rather pay Butler $10 mil for one year than pay Jamison $10 mil each of the next two years. Throw in Najera or Barea or Stevenson or a combination of those three expiring deals and we could take on the other long contracts you have like Williams and Gibson. If Lebron leaves, it means Dan Gilbert will want to clear up the roster as soon as possible to rebuild and this is the fastest route. I'm sorry that it's not appealing to you, but I have a feeling Dan Gilbert would understand the appeal to this.

But ya, if Lebron said that he wanted to go play for the Lakers, a package involving Bynum would be better. If he said he wanted to go to Portland or Sacto then bringing in Roy or Evans would be better, I agree with all that. This conversation is solely based around him stating he wants to come to Dallas.

[CDansby]

What about a 3 way trade including the Hawks and Joe Johnson?

The Hawks send Joe Johnson to the Cavs. The Cavs send LeBron and Jamesion to the Mavs. The Mavs send Dirk to the Hawks and Dampier and Beaubois to the Cavs. It leaves the Cavs with a play-off team, the Hawks get to remake their team to chase a championship. The Mavs of course get Lebron and a stretch PF to make up a little bit for the loss of Dirk.

Dallas definitely needs another SF, almost as much as the Hawks need a PF... great trade.

The whole point of us going after Lebron would be to pair him up with Dirk, he's not going anywhere. And we have Butler and Marion on our roster right now, I don't feel like we need another SF, we're actually logjammed there right now.