Genius of the Zone Against the Lakers

[asubennett]

Here is the beauty of it.... The Lakers can not play the triangle triple post offense against it. Remember when this offense was created, zone defense was not legal in the NBA. Teams rarely play zone defense in the NBA because it can and will be broken down.

However, the Lakers live by and dominate with the triangle offense. If they adjust, and they will, they will play out of the triangle which we like, because it is not what is comfortable to that team.

I predict in game 4, we will start in zone and LA will become frustrated using the triangle against it. We will jump out to a quick 8-10pt lead. Then LA will adjust and play out of the triangle and close the gap, from that point on it will be critical that we play them tough and punish them for playing out of their comfort zone, in an offensive scheme that is not familiar to them.

[Miklo]

Good points. We also forced a lot of 3 point shots with the zone. The more 3 pointers they hoist up, the better. When they are really unstoppable is when every one of them is going to the hole nonstop.

[Qwigglez]

Nicely put, but I think the Lakers will figure something out. So we'll have to run a combination of zone defense, man to man defense, and get some full court pressure from our bench to wear out their starters because they play heavy minutes. I want to see the hustle and heart that the Houston Rockets put on the Lakers last year in the playoffs.

[KJ7]

Excellent point about the triangle being created when zone D's weren't allowed. Our zone just looked so much better then in game 2 when we used it for about 3 possessions after it failed dismally. the wing players just looked so much more assured about when to come forward/back. What I liked about the zone was just that Kobe and Pau weren't given acres of space to go one-on-one 10-15 feet from the basket. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that if they're getting the ball in those areas they're gonna score on a ridiculously good %.

They tried a few give-and-go's and trying to get Odom cutting under the basket as well. The thing about all these short passes is that there's a chance to deflect balls and Hill/Dudley in particular did a good job there.

With players like Artest and Odom you don't have to have a hand right in their face when they are shooting jumpers. If you're in their general area it will put them off enough to miss, you just can't leave them wide open.

If we run the zone and win in game 2, I think Lakers have something to really worry about. Psychologically it will be playing on their minds. Phil knows they will have to smash our zone in Game 2 otherwise it could have a lasting effect on this series.

[lilfishi22]

I think if Phil don't figure it out the zone by Gm 4, which is unlikely, he'd definitely have it figured out by Gm 5. The problem with our defense is that, whenever we go to the zone is often the last resort and if that gets taken away, I think the series is done. The zone might have been created during a time when the zone was illegal but I'm sure Phil has played many times against the zone before and probably found success. The two main ways to beat the zone is playing an inside out game or beat it with great shooting. The Lakers didn't shoot very well in the last game and they only had 1 big to dump the ball into so they couldn't really adjust on the fly. But if they shoot well or if we don't get their bigs in foul trouble again, they'll destroy the zone.

All I'm saying is that, I feel we caught them by surprise with the zone and with their role players not shooting well and their bigs in foul trouble they fell into a position to go up against the zone. It just seemed like the situation had to be so perfect for our zone to work well and Phil is likely going to find away to keep Amare from getting touches and thus stop getting their bigs in foul trouble. That's why I can't see the zone as being our savior of the series, in the end it's going to come to guys stepping offensively individually.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

Here is the beauty of it.... The Lakers can not play the triangle triple post offense against it. Remember when this offense was created, zone defense was not legal in the NBA. Teams rarely play zone defense in the NBA because it can and will be broken down.

However, the Lakers live by and dominate with the triangle offense. If they adjust, and they will, they will play out of the triangle which we like, because it is not what is comfortable to that team.

I predict in game 4, we will start in zone and LA will become frustrated using the triangle against it. We will jump out to a quick 8-10pt lead. Then LA will adjust and play out of the triangle and close the gap, from that point on it will be critical that we play them tough and punish them for playing out of their comfort zone, in an offensive scheme that is not familiar to them.

The Suns played great in Game 3 (as I suspected they would), but Phil Jackson and the Lakers will make the correct adjustments for Game 4. The Lakers took way too many 3's and stopped attacking the rim with regularity. I fully expect them to do so for the full 48-minutes next time around. I also strongly believe that the Lakers will make a more consertive effort to take away the Sun's Pick & Roll offense, which will mean Amare won't have another huge scoring night.

Game 4 should be a good one!!!

[asubennett]

I think the adjustment will be more Kobe isos and a lot less Bynum which to me plays right in our hands. Granted Kobe isoing every play is not exactly comforting but I am telling you if we can get this team out of the damn triangle we have officially mitigated the greatest threat they pose to us. Height and easy inside buckets.

Lopez anchoring the zone made the zone very tough. When Frye anchored the zone it kind of sucked.

Is zone the savior? Nope. Is zone an extremely effective way of defending the ultra efficient triangle? Yep. Is the triangle the Lakers most effective and comforting offense? Yep.

For those reasons I am stoked about our adopted college defense.

[charley barkles]

I agree with what everyone is saying here... my big concern is that the Lakers put up 37 points in the 3rd quarter. The 2nd quarter was awesome, holding them to 15, and the 4th was decent as they scored 25... but why was the 3rd quarter huge for them? I'm not totally sure and i'm going to re-watch the game this afternoon, but my first guess is that is has something to do with the Lakers being in foul trouble. (Odom, Bynum, and Fisher probably didn't play a whole lot of minutes in the 2nd quarter.)

Which would pose the question... would the zone be as effective if they weren't in foul trouble?

[asubennett]

I agree with what everyone is saying here... my big concern is that the Lakers put up 37 points in the 3rd quarter. The 2nd quarter was awesome, holding them to 15, and the 4th was decent as they scored 25... but why was the 3rd quarter huge for them? I'm not totally sure and i'm going to re-watch the game this afternoon, but my first guess is that is has something to do with the Lakers being in foul trouble. (Odom, Bynum, and Fisher probably didn't play a whole lot of minutes in the 2nd quarter.)

Which would pose the question... would the zone be as effective if they weren't in foul trouble?

Bynum barely played the entire game.

Bryant played the entire 3rd quarter and they made jumpers. Fourth quarter those same jumpers didnt fall. Against the zone you will get wide open j's all day long that are good shots. And they are so hard to pass up when you have them, but if they dont pass them up , then they are playing right into our hands.

[asubennett]

Here is the entire play by play of the 3rd quarter below.

Summary =

Only two close range buckets. Everything else was long jump shots or free throws. Same thing in the 2nd quarter and 4th quarter. If they can make the jumpers they will make us get out of the zone, or we can just decide there is no way they can make 55% of their jumpers but we sure as hell can and continue challengine them to a shooting contest like we did.

1 - Artest layup
1 - Odom tip
3 - Gasol Jumpers
2 - Artest Jumpers
1 - Fish Jumper
3 - Fish Three Point Baskets
1 - Bryant Three Point Basket
2- Artest Free Throws
6 - Bryant Free Throws

Start of 3rd QuarterBack to Top
Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed 11:47
11:45 Hill Rebound (Off:0 Def:4)
11:41
[PHX 56-47] Richardson Jump Shot: Made (10 PTS) Assist: Hill (2 AST)
Gasol Jump Shot: Made (14 PTS) Assist: Bryant (6 AST) 11:21
[LAL 49-56]
11:11 Nash Jump Shot: Missed
Bynum Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 11:09
Artest 3pt Shot: Made (3 PTS) Assist: Bryant (7 AST) 10:58
[LAL 52-56]
10:40
[PHX 58-52] Stoudemire Jump Bank Shot: Made (15 PTS)
Bynum Foul : Shooting (4 PF) 10:40
Bynum Substitution replaced by Odom 10:40
10:40
[PHX 59-52] Stoudemire Free Throw 1 of 1 (16 PTS)
Artest Layup Shot: Missed 10:24
Odom Rebound (Off:2 Def:3) 10:22
Odom Tip Shot: Made (4 PTS) 10:22
[LAL 54-59]
10:14 Richardson 3pt Shot: Missed
Gasol Rebound (Off:0 Def:6) 10:12
09:58 Hill Foul : Shooting (2 PF)
Instant Replay - Support Ruling 09:58
Fisher Free Throw 1 of 3 (8 PTS) 09:58
[LAL 55-59]
Fisher Free Throw 2 of 3 (9 PTS) 09:58
[LAL 56-59]
Fisher Free Throw 3 of 3 (10 PTS) 09:58
[LAL 57-59]
09:37
[PHX 61-57] Lopez Layup Shot: Made (12 PTS)
Bryant Turnover : Bad Pass (4 TO) Steal:Stoudemire (1 ST) 09:12
09:04
[PHX 63-57] Richardson Running Jump Shot: Made (12 PTS)
Bryant Foul : Shooting (2 PF) 09:04
09:04
[PHX 64-57] Richardson Free Throw 1 of 1 (13 PTS)
Gasol Layup Shot: Made (16 PTS) Assist: Bryant (8 AST) 08:50
[LAL 59-64]
08:32
[PHX 67-59] Hill 3pt Shot: Made (5 PTS) Assist: Nash (8 AST)
Gasol Jump Shot: Missed Block: Hill (1 BLK) 08:15
Fisher Rebound (Off:1 Def:3) 08:12
Fisher Jump Shot: Made (12 PTS) 08:11
[LAL 61-67]
07:52
[PHX 69-61] Lopez Jump Shot: Made (14 PTS)
Artest Jump Shot: Made (5 PTS) 07:33
[LAL 63-69]
07:06 Richardson Running Jump Shot: Missed
07:04 Stoudemire Rebound (Off:3 Def:5)
07:04 Stoudemire Tip Shot: Missed
Odom Rebound (Off:2 Def:4) 07:02
Fisher 3pt Shot: Made (15 PTS) Assist: Bryant (9 AST) 06:54
[LAL 66-69]
06:41
[PHX 71-66] Stoudemire Jump Shot: Made (18 PTS) Assist: Nash (9 AST)
06:31 Double Technical - Lopez, Fisher
Artest Reverse Layup Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Fisher (3 AST) 06:21
[LAL 68-71]
06:08
[PHX 73-68] Stoudemire Driving Layup Shot: Made (20 PTS)
Odom 3pt Shot: Missed 05:50
05:48 Hill Rebound (Off:0 Def:5)
05:37 Hill Layup Shot: Missed Block: Bryant (1 BLK)
Fisher Rebound (Off:1 Def:4) 05:35
05:20 Lopez Foul : Shooting (2 PF)
05:20 Team Timeout : Regular
Artest Free Throw 1 of 2 (8 PTS) 05:20
[LAL 69-73]
Artest Free Throw 2 of 2 (9 PTS) 05:20
[LAL 70-73]
05:02
[PHX 75-70] Lopez Hook Shot: Made (16 PTS) Assist: Nash (10 AST)
Gasol Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Hill (3 ST) 04:42
04:33 Nash Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Bryant (1 ST)
Fisher 3pt Shot: Made (18 PTS) Assist: Odom (2 AST) 04:26
[LAL 73-75]
Odom Foul : Shooting (4 PF) 04:04
04:04
[PHX 76-73] Stoudemire Free Throw 1 of 2 (21 PTS)
Odom Substitution replaced by Brown 04:04
04:04 Hill Substitution replaced by Dudley
04:04
[PHX 77-73] Stoudemire Free Throw 2 of 2 (22 PTS)
Brown 3pt Shot: Missed 03:51
03:50 Nash Rebound (Off:0 Def:2)
03:40 Lopez Jump Shot: Missed Block: Brown (2 BLK)
Artest Rebound (Off:1 Def:5) 03:38
Gasol Turnaround Jump Shot: Made (18 PTS) 03:29
[LAL 75-77]
03:17 Richardson Jump Shot: Missed Block: Gasol (1 BLK)
Brown Rebound (Off:1 Def:2) 03:16
03:16 Richardson Foul : Personal (2 PF)
Team Timeout : Regular 03:16
03:16 Lopez Substitution replaced by Frye
Fisher Jump Shot: Missed 03:03
03:00 Stoudemire Rebound (Off:3 Def:6)
02:43
[PHX 79-75] Stoudemire Jump Shot: Made (24 PTS)
Bryant 3pt Shot: Made (22 PTS) Assist: Gasol (1 AST) 02:14
[LAL 78-79]
Artest Foul : Shooting (2 PF) 02:04
02:04
[PHX 80-78] Stoudemire Free Throw 1 of 2 (25 PTS)
02:04
[PHX 81-78] Stoudemire Free Throw 2 of 2 (26 PTS)
Gasol Jump Shot: Made (20 PTS) Assist: Bryant (10 AST) 01:40
[LAL 80-81]
01:15 Richardson 3pt Shot: Missed
Bryant Rebound (Off:2 Def:4) 01:13
Artest Layup Shot: Missed 00:56.9
00:55.6 Stoudemire Rebound (Off:3 Def:7)
Fisher Foul : Shooting (3 PF) 00:39.0
00:39.0 Richardson Substitution replaced by Barbosa
00:39.0 Nash Substitution replaced by Dragic
00:39.0 Stoudemire Free Throw 1 of 2 Missed
00:39.0 Team Rebound
00:39.0
[PHX 82-80] Stoudemire Free Throw 2 of 2 (27 PTS)
00:26.5 Barbosa Foul : Shooting (1 PF)
Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (23 PTS) 00:26.5
[LAL 81-82]
Fisher Substitution replaced by Farmar 00:26.5
Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (24 PTS) 00:26.5
[LAL 82-82]
00:08.3
[PHX 84-82] Stoudemire Running Bank shot: Made (29 PTS)
00:03.0 Barbosa Foul : Personal (2 PF)
Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (25 PTS) 00:03.0
[LAL 83-84]
Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (26 PTS) 00:03.0
[LAL 84-84]
Brown Foul : Personal (1 PF) 00:01.5
00:01.5
[PHX 85-84] Barbosa Free Throw 1 of 2 (1 PTS)
00:01.5
[PHX 86-84] Barbosa Free Throw 2 of 2 (2 PTS)
Brown 3pt Shot: Missed 00:00.1
Team Rebound 00:00.0

[ma_falaa_50]

Nicely put, but I think the Lakers will figure something out. So we'll have to run a combination of zone defense, man to man defense, and get some full court pressure from our bench to wear out their starters because they play heavy minutes. I want to see the hustle and heart that the Houston Rockets put on the Lakers last year in the playoffs.

didnt the lakers adjust? I mean they got back. I agree with ur point about diff defensive schemes. hustle and heart is the reason they swept the spurs and also won game 3

[lilfishi22]

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/05/24/why-the-suns-zone-worked-then-didnt-then-did-again/

This is a nice analysis of our zone in Gm 3 and why I don't think it'll work to the same positive effect in Gm 4.

[Qwigglez]

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/05/24/why-the-suns-zone-worked-then-didnt-then-did-again/

This is a nice analysis of our zone in Gm 3 and why I don't think it'll work to the same positive effect in Gm 4.

Pretty good. Suns are gonna have to run a modified version of the zone. Know which guys to cheat on and follow.
I think it'd be best if we ran full court press every time we score a bucket. So it would keep the defensive intensity up.

[NapoleonII]

Y'all are fools if you think the zone can stop ANY NBA team in a 7 game series. At most, it throws them off for a quarter or two.

[DEEP3CL]

With all due respect to the OP, but you're wrong about the Triangle. Seeing as it was created by Sam Barry a college coach at USC in the 1940's and later perfected by Tex Winter who played for Barry at SC.

The offense was made to counter the exact thing you guys are boasting about..........a zone, seeing as that's all that was mostly played in college at that time. Winter later used the offense at Kansas State. The offense has come across zones for many years. Alex Hannum who played with Winter at SC introduced the offense to the NBA in the early 60's while coaching the Philadelphia Warriors.

Last time I remembered they still ran zone in the NBA at that time too. Bottom line I'm not going to get into a tit for tat convo on what the Triangle can do against a zone. But to say that the offense can't be productive against a zone is something I find unthinkable.

This isn't going to be something that's detrimental to the Lakers, nor will it give them doubts about their offense. I still see guys posting...." the Lakers can't figure it out", what's not to figure out ?
In the Triangle there's a counter for every defense, the OP said the Lakers will iso Kobe....wrong.

The offense is meant to space not isolate, the Triangle has many phases to it. Just because you think you see Kobe in an iso situation he's really not.

A zone isn't rocket science, we got 37 points in the 3rd on that same zone. The game was lost for us on a failure to execute in critical moments.

Everybody knows how to attack a zone........dump the ball inside and kick out to shooters. Problem is yesterday the Lakers couldn't hit shots, it helps to have that happen.

Bottom line is the Lakers will still run the Triangle regardless.

[KJ7]

I'm happy to see Lakers take 3 pointers rather then having the ball in Kobe/Pau's hands 10-15 feet from the basket.

Yes, we will def rely on Lakers missing their shots but it's all about the type of shots they take, how wide open we leave them and who we leave open. Kobe and Pau's shooting has been incredible up until now. If we can get the ball out of their hands the better off we'll be. I'll even take Kobe shooting 3s. I know he can burn us from there but he's generally pretty streaky from that range.

[chrice]

I would say if there's one weakness the Lakers have of going big, it's shooting with Odom/Artest. I'd be perfectly happy giving them open shots and letting them try to do so. Kobe is also a streaky 3 point shooter. Aside from Fisher to spread the floor, the tall lineup shrinks the amount of court that needs to be defended. Hence, it being ideal against the laker lineup, or any team with weak shooting. What a lot of people don't realize is that the Pistons shifted between man and a loose zone 1-3-1 against them in the year they won the finals.

I also disagree with Napolean that it can't work in a 7 game series. It's not perfect, but when executed correctly, the zone is a thing of beauty. Ultimately it's up to the players on the floor to make it successful.

[WTFsunsFTW]

Can we not call a defense that yields 109 points, "Genius?" Please?

[MrVince]

As much as I like it, I'm sure the Lakers are eventually going to find ways to break the zone.

[lilfishi22]

I also disagree with Napolean that it can't work in a 7 game series. It's not perfect, but when executed correctly, the zone is a thing of beauty. Ultimately it's up to the players on the floor to make it successful.

Actually he was right. The zone caught the Lakers by surprise in the 2nd quarter and that's why they only scored 15points. The Lakers made adjustments coming out of half time and beat our zone handily with quicker passing and that opened holes in our zone which they used to get into the paint. They scored 37 points in the 3rd. The 4th quarter they could've beaten us but they inexplicably went away from the offense that was working so well in the 3rd and started passing slower and taking too many 3's. If the zone can be beaten after one half-time adjustment, there's no way it can work in the 7 game series.

Can we not call a defense that yields 109 points, "Genius?" Please?

I must agree.