danny granger

[Worm Guts]

Just being all-stars isn't what significant. We don't have anyone else who's close to being ready to help carry us deep in the playoffs. Maybe Love, but that's such an awkard fit with Jefferson that I don't think that trio could get it done. Neither Jefferson or Granger is a legitimate MVP caliber player, they'd need a legitimate 3rd cog to make noise in the playoffs.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Neither Jefferson or Granger is a legitimate MVP caliber player, they'd need a legitimate 3rd cog to make noise in the playoffs.

Maybe not, but the Wolves' place in the lottery this year precludes them drafting a legit first option (just like all the other times we've failed to get lucky in the lotto. Not that I'm bitter at all.)

What this discussion really boils down to is this - do you think that Cousins could develop into a legitimate first option on a championship team? He has the talent to, but will he have the maturity? It's a gamble either way - what I'm saying is that I'd take Granger now over Cousins' potential.

[Worm Guts]

what I'm saying is that I'd take Granger now over Cousins' potential.

I wouldn't, the team isn't ready. If you want to play for now, you've got to get at least one other player. If we're not going to win now, I'd rather stay young and have financial flexibility.

[Devilzsidewalk]

when does Granger's BYC expire?

I think we could put together a reasonable package w/ some combination of AL/#16/Flynn/Sessions for Granger/TJ Ford

[AQuintus]

It's a gamble either way - what I'm saying is that I'd take Granger now over Cousins' potential.

I don't see this at all. Drafting Cousins is a gamble, sure, but trading 4 for Granger is more like taking your losses and going home. We already know what kind of impact Granger brings and it isn't near enough to turn a 15 win team into a championship contender, which is why I wouldn't take Granger now over Cousins' potential.

Cousins probably isn't going to turn our 15 win team into a contender, either, but with his rookie salary and young age, he at least gives us time to build one.

[younggunsmn]

If Granger was a couple years younger, and didn't have the injury history, I would consider dealing him for 4. But with his injury history at age 27, he may only have 3 years left as a 25 ppg player. 4 straight up for Granger is very questionable, adding 16 and flynn in is just dumb.

The top 4 this year all have the potential to be as good or better, in my opinion, than granger.
Cousins has the size and skills to be a dominant center on both ends of the court, probably the rarest commodity in the league. Guys that big with that much skill just don't come around very often.

We can find wing scorers in this draft, there are a bunch of them that will be available in the teens and early 20's. None are as good as Granger, but the value over replacement is much better trying to replace Granger with another wing, than replace what Cousins could become with another center.

I would trade Flynn+Al or Love for Granger. Trouble is that isn't probably going to be enough for the pacers.

Rubio and the #4 are the only assets we have that should be off the table in trying to improve the team.

[TrentTuckerForever]

The Wolves are a 15 win team whose best two players (Jefferson and Love) not only play the same position, but also don't fit with the best prospects at our draft position (Favors or Cousins.) There are two guys who you'd wait to develop into franchise guys in this draft - Wall and Turner. I could stomach waiting for them to develop. You're saying that Cousins is worth waiting for? Is the savior?

The best scenario would have been for the Wolves to be in position to draft a franchise changer. They aren't, but they can still improve the roster by moving an asset or assets for more talent. I understand not wanting to be stuck as a 45-50 win team, out in the 2nd round every year. But at some point you have to start changing assets into players who can help you win. For all their assets, the Woofies don't look set up to win right now.

[younggunsmn]

when does Granger's BYC expire?

I think we could put together a reasonable package w/ some combination of AL/#16/Flynn/Sessions for Granger/TJ Ford

Granger's BYC doesn't expire until after the trade moratorium (7/8 I believe).
So don't look for a Granger trade involving 2010 draft picks.

[AQuintus]

The Wolves are a 15 win team whose best two players (Jefferson and Love) not only play the same position, but also don't fit with the best prospects at our draft position (Favors or Cousins.)

Yes, and because they don't fit together, one of Jefferson or Love is going to be traded anyway. We might as well take the most valuable player in our draft position to replace the one we trade.

There are two guys who you'd wait to develop into franchise guys in this draft - Wall and Turner. I could stomach waiting for them to develop. You're saying that Cousins is worth waiting for? Is the savior?

I don't agree with your basic premise. Wall and Turner are more likely to develop into franchise players, but Favors and Cousins can both do so as well. In fact, I'd say that both Favors and Cousins have higher ceilings than Turner, and if he didn't have the attitude questions, Cousins would be neck and neck with Wall for the 1st pick.

The best scenario would have been for the Wolves to be in position to draft a franchise changer. They aren't, but they can still improve the roster by moving an asset or assets for more talent.

That's assuming that Granger is more talented than either Favors or Cousins, but both project (best case scenerio-wise) to be better players than Granger.

I understand not wanting to be stuck as a 45-50 win team, out in the 2nd round every year.

A 45-50 win team might not even make it into the playoffs in the Western Conference, and that's assuming that Granger can turn our 15 win team into a 45-50 win team. He hasn't been able to get even 40 wins in the Eastern Conference since he was a rookie.

But at some point you have to start changing assets into players who can help you win. For all their assets, the Woofies don't look set up to win right now.

Yes, and I'd say that that point is after you're already a playoff team without making moves. At that point, you should start consolidating role players to get the extra star player that will put you over the top into contending status. Portland and OKC are in that position, we aren't.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Much as klomp would rather we start a flame war (you're stupid! no, u are! stupid!!) I suppose we could just agree to disagree. You prefer to trade an established player (Jefferson or Love) instead of trading a draft pick. I would prefer to use the pick to add established value in Granger. We could both cite instances where one approach has worked and the other has failed, it's just preference.

In this case I believe adding Granger to Jefferson makes sense because Jefferson is a proven low post scorer who will be better another year removed from his achilles' surgery. They'd make life easier on each other, and the team would be better next year. In 2011, if Rubio comes over and is as good as advertised, they could be elite.

Using the #4 pick on a guy who COULD be as good or better than Jefferson presents a greater risk, in my opinon. We shall see...