Which GM was worse? Layden vs. Thomas

[boogeydown]

Me and my buddy were debating who ruined the Knicks more, Scott Layden who brought us such gems like Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson and Clarence Weatherspoon or Isiah Thomas who got us Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry and traded away most of our draft picks.

My vote goes to Scott Layden, atleast Thomas tried, I was stoked when we got Marbury who at the time was on of the best PG's in the league and the NY native. I believe Layden gave Allen Houston that monster contract too.

[knicks82385]

That's like asking what's worse: AIDS or cancer? They're both awful and end up killing you.

[KnicksScholar24]

Both were HORRENDOUS GMs!

Scott Layden with the Houston contract, and trading Camby and the 7th overall pick for Antonio McKnee, and building a team with overpaid role-players (Travis Knight, Othella Harrington, Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Clarence Weatherspoon, Mike Sweetney). Isiah Thomas with his Jerome James, Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries (too much money) contracts, his theory that shot-blocking is overrated, the dysfunction in the organization, and NY is still feeling the effects of his first round pick giveaways. Isiah did have the ability to draft, though, which Layden didn't.

I think Isiah Thomas tried and failed with his signings and trades, but his drafts were very good (Ariza, Lee, Chandler, Frye, Robinson, Balkman, and even Collins). I can't think of any young talent Scott Layden brought it.

[sPALL]

Scott Layden was the worst GM in the history of the NBA.

[Paeds]

Isiah's drafting saves him easily

[Pharmcat]

sweetney was a good pick

[towelie]

I dunno, it's a close call. I think the Curry trade was more crippling to the franchise than anything Layden had done.

But at the same time, Layden had no redeeming quality. Made dumb trades, brought in old, unathletic role players from Utah, sucked at drafting...

Isiah at least gave us Lee and Chandler, and made our team more athletic and arguably more fun to watch at the time. As bad as we were, I was more excited about Knick basketball during Isiah's tenure than Layden's by far.

[CharlieTuna]

Scott Layden was the worst GM in the history of the NBA.

yep, he put the wheels in motion...several times i've seen him in the elevator at 2 penn plaza..while he was there i worked two floors above...what a geek, and some nervous condition too...sweating, scratching...where'd they find this guy...i know his pops was a big shot in Utah, but if his father was so smart he should of locked this guy in a room somewhere and left him there....complete moron...

[BklyntoTNeck]

That's like asking what's worse: AIDS or cancer? They're both awful and end up killing you.

+1

Neither was better than the other. They were both absolutely horrible and unqualified for a GM job in the NBA. Isiah had a better draft record, thus making him more qualified to be a scout.

[moocow007]

I'll have to go with Layden.

Layden was really the one that started this entire mess that the Knicks have just finally dug themselves out form under.

Not a single one of his moves made sense. Not one.

Some of his dandy moves:

1. Trading Knicks legend Patrick Ewing's big expiring for a gaggle of long contracted overpaid role players (Luc Longley, Chris Dudley & Travis Knight), has beens (Glen "Cream Chees Knees" Rice) and no names (Lazoro Borrel anyone?).

2. Trading Erick Strickland AND a 1st AND 2nd round pick for Othella Harrington.

3. Trading Glen Rice's shorter contract for two WAY OVERPAID role players in Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley (who combined for ate up more than $80 million in salaries).

4. Trading an in his prime Marcus Camby, Mark Jackson's big expiring contract AND a lottery pick (Amare Stoudemire was still on the board when the Knicks pick was made) for Antonio McDyess (who was coming off of major knee injuries to both knees).

PS: Howard Eisley, in his infinite ineptitude actually proved to be even worse of a pickup than his contract when he undercut his own teammate (McDyess) in preseason effectively killing whatever chances McDyess had of returning to his pre-bad knees 20/10 days.

5. Outbidding no one apparenlty but himself to resign Alan Houston to that crazy, crazy, CRAZY, contract (6 years $120 million).

6. Throwing 3 years and $24 million at Clarence "3 neck chins" Weatherspoon (when they already have a gazzillion PF's) when a comparable PF at the time (Gary Trent) was signed to a $1.5 million one year contract.

7. And finally culminating his illustrious GM career by trading a guy who proved he can perform in NY (Latrell Sprewell) for a guy that had already shown he can't perform in NY(NJ) in Keith Van Horn.

Don't get me wrong, Thomas also made plenty of mistakes but at the time his two biggest deals (Marbury and Curry) at least didn't immediately leave you scratching your head. Very similar deals to the one that Thomas actually did to get Marbury was proposed on RGM and laughed at by fans of other teams. And the Curry deal (especially with Larry Brown coming on board) seemed like a sound investment at the time.

[magnumt]

^Moo, can you do me a favor and Update the Selection Thread...I'm a little swamped today?

Lemme know.

Thanks mate.

--Mags

[method]

sweetney was a good pick

Slako Vranes was a good pick 7'6" and a great shotblocker,as soon as IT came in he cut him right of the bat.I wonder where he is now,probably bagging grocerys somewhere.

[NyKnicks1714]

They were both absolutely terrible.

Isiah's drafting is the most overrated thing on this board. He made 3 good picks; Ariza, Nate, and Chandler (Lee was Suhr's pick, not his). Frye was a bad pick, Balkman was a terrible pick (People make so much of Walsh passing on Jennings, but Renaldo Balkman over Rajon Rondo, much much worse), and Collins was a bad pick. He made 3 good picks, 3 bad picks. No spectacular picks.

What makes Isiah's tenure even worse is that he saw the mistakes Layden made, and didn't change anything. He continued to add salary with no long-term plan to improve the team. What I find funny is that he traded away picks, put the team in salary-cap hell, all to "win now", and he wasn't even able to do that. It's like taking your kid's college funds and betting all the money on a horse that's been scratched from the race, having already seen your father do the same thing years earlier.


Once again, both were absolutely terrible. But seeing as how Isiah had Layden's horrible tenure to learn from and chose not to, and seeing as how he transformed the Knicks from the joke of the NBA to the joke of the sports world, I have to give a slight crappiness edge to Isiah W. Thomas.

It really doesn't matter though, it's just good we have someone with a brain in charge now.

[NyKnicks1714]

I dunno, it's a close call. I think the Curry trade was more crippling to the franchise than anything Layden had done.

Once again I say this: $90 million combined to Eddy Curry and Jerome James in the same offseason. It's something I still can't wrap my head around.

[KnicksScholar24]

I was about to say Balkman over Rondo was a dumb move, but I think if Mady Collins was in the same situation as Rondo and giving the playing time, I feel he could have turned out much better than he did. Maybe not as good as Rondo, but he would be considered a good starter caliber players.

Also picking Lee, Chandler, and Ariza weren't Thomas' only good picks. Those were great picks considering how low in the draft he got them. Frye, Robinson, Balkman, and Collins are all solid players, but never had much opportunities after leaving New York. The same would probably happen to Gallinari, Chandler, and Douglas if they were traded. I'd take back any Isiah's drafted players in a second, especially Balkman and Collins (cheap defensive minded players).

[NyKnicks1714]

Balkman and Collins are complete scrubs, let's just get that out of the way. There's a reason they don't play.

Channing Frye is a soft big man who can't rebound, can't defend, can't do anything except hit jumpers. If he's missing his shots, he becomes 100% useless.

Those were bad bad picks by Isiah, period. I will say that he can get a pass for Collins, since it was the 29th pick and the only better players after him were taken in the mid-2nd round.

[Knicks D]

This one move put Layden over the top, Fredick Weiss (and that was no typo)

[NyKnicks1714]

This one move put Layden over the top, Fredick Weiss.

That was Ernie Grunfeld.

[Knicks D]

really? I could have sworn that was Layden. I guess Ernie got the ball rolling for Scotty boy.

[Paeds]

I'd take back any Isiah's drafted players in a second, especially Balkman and Collins (cheap defensive minded players).

the fact that all of Isiahs picks are still in the league is telling

In fact I believe every one of iisiahs picks ever are still in the league sans Stoudamire who retired