Retro Player of the Year Project

JordansBulls · Post #601 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon May 31, 2010 5:26 pm

Anyone has Bill Simmons book? He actually outlines some seasons in particular regarding who was the best certain years.

Some were in 2008, 2006, 1993, 1990, 1973 for a few.

lorak · Post #602 » by **lorak** » Mon May 31, 2010 5:52 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Anyone has Bill Simmons book? He actually outlines some seasons in particular regarding who was the best certain years.

He talks about who in his opinion was the real MVP in certain years:
1997 – Jordan
1970 - West
2006 - Kobe
1993 - Jordan
1973 - KAJ
1990 - Jordan
2005 - Shaq
2008 - Chris Paul

He also mentions several other seasons but in different group.

JordansBulls · Post #603 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon May 31, 2010 5:54 pm

DavidStern wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Anyone has Bill Simmons book? He actually outlines some seasons in particular regarding who was the best certain years.

He talks about who in his opinion was the real MVP in certain years:
1997 – Jordan
1970 - West
2006 - Kobe
1993 - Jordan
1973 - KAJ
1990 - Jordan
2005 - Shaq
2008 - Chris Paul

He also mentions several other seasons but in different group.

Don't see how he could defend Kareem in 1973. The Bucks won 60+ games and loss to a 47 win team in the 1st series.

Gongxi · Post #604 » by **Gongxi** » Mon May 31, 2010 11:15 pm

Perhaps because he doesn't confuse player success and team success, like you do?

sp6r=underrated · Post #605 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 12:23 am

Perhaps because he doesn't confuse player success and team success, like you do?

He has Sam Jones over Dirk Nowitzki

Gongxi · Post #606 » by **Gongxi** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 12:53 am

He's not known for being a Celtic homer for nothing.

Silver Bullet · Post #607 » by **Silver Bullet** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 4:08 am

JordansBulls wrote:
DavidStern wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Anyone has Bill Simmons book? He actually outlines some seasons in particular regarding who was the best certain years.

He talks about who in his opinion was the real MVP in certain years:
1997 – Jordan
1970 - West
2006 - Kobe
1993 - Jordan
1973 - KAJ
1990 - Jordan
2005 - Shaq
2008 - Chris Paul

He also mentions several other seasons but in different group.

Don't see how he could defend Kareem in 1973. The Bucks won 60+ games and loss to a 47 win team in the 1st series.

MVP = regular season

JordansBulls · Post #608 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 11:59 am

Yes but to justify some cases he uses postseason as well.

Post #609 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 9:34 pm

fyi, I've added kaima on to the project participant list, I'm also planning to prune the list shortly as there are clearly some people who haven't participated in a good while.

Post #610 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 1:17 am

An Unbiased Fan wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:So if you switch Kobe and KG, the Wolves beat Kg/Shaq, right?

The Wolves were built around KG, so there would be an imbalance if you add Kobe. However, with comparable talent that fits around a SG, I would say the Wolves would beat LA. It's not like Kobe hasn't already show this post Shaq. Even before they got Gasol they were a #1 seed.

That's why I can't take this guy or his doppelganger seriously.

Baller 24 · Post #611 » by **Baller 24** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 1:23 am

I'm tired of hearing this number 1 seed crap too, if you look at '06 and '07, they started out hot in a similar way, with almost identical records until they cooled down in the middle to late stretches of the season. Their record was on pretty much similar paces the '06 and '07 seasons, but in '08, other teams had injury problems, coaching changes, and trade issues in the Western Conference (except for The Hornets), other than that, all evidence from the previous two seasons prior to '08 points that they would be nothing more than a bottom half playoff seed without that trade.

sp6r=underrated · Post #612 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 1:35 am

Baller24

Respectfully disagree with your claim that they were a bottom half team pre-Gasol trade. I don't think they would have held on to the number 1 seed but they had clearly improved from 06 and 07. Bynum made a big leap that year.

Remember were the West stood that year.

In 2007, the big three in the West were SA, Phoenix, and Dallas

In 08, Dallas suffered a big drop off, and weren't playing anything like the year.
In 08, Phoenix committed suicide by trading for Shaq.
In 08, SA was clearly showing their age. Duncan's defense had declined dramatically and the team suffered a big drop in point differential from were they were 04-07, when they had monster PD totals.

The West was a bit wide open that year. It had a lot of good teams, but no great teams. That is why Pre-Gasol lakers were more than a bottom half WC team.

Now if that trade didn't happen, I think the Hornets would have ended up with the number 1 seed and probably make the finals.

Baller 24 · Post #613 » by **Baller 24** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 1:40 am

Well maybe using bottom half was a little too much, but the reason I say bottom half is because of the Bynum injury, if he hadn't gotten injured I could see anywhere from 4th at most (but remember the 4th place Rockets won 55 games that season), that's a decently high number of wins, but without the Gasol trade and no Bynum I don't think they crack the top 5, but I'm just basing it off the number of wins and the importance of the production of Bynum.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #614 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 2:34 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:
An Unbiased Fan wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:So if you switch Kobe and KG, the Wolves beat Kg/Shaq, right?

The Wolves were built around KG, so there would be an imbalance if you add Kobe. However, with comparable talent that fits around a SG, I would say the Wolves would beat LA. It's not like Kobe hasn't already show this post Shaq. Even before they got Gasol they were a #1 seed.

That's why I can't take this guy or his doppelganger seriously.

At this point the feeling is mutual. So instead of locking an obvious troll thread, you instead participate in it with the OP's intentions, and when I dare counter the notion that Prime KG > Prime Kobe, you call me a "troll acount" yet again, and run to a totally unrelated thread to bring that debate into it??? I mean really, what's your deal?

I've tried to be civil with you. I've brushed off your many attacks since last year, but this is just sad. The funny thing is I don't even hate KG like most seem to. I voted for him as #3 in the 05' POY thread when he didn't even make the PS. Yet for some reason you feel compelled to bait me again and again.

Why would you even post that in here? The only outcome would be the derailing of a very good project.

Post #615 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 2:37 am

It's not about KG, you're just so stuck to Kobe you'll do things like Vote Karl Malone ahead of Mike, like we couldn't see that one coming :lol:

It's cool JohnGalt, your vote really can't do all that much damage, you just really have 0 credibility.

Silver Bullet · Post #616 » by **Silver Bullet** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 2:51 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:It's not about KG, you're just so stuck to Kobe you'll do things like Vote Karl Malone ahead of Mike, like we couldn't see that one coming

It's cool JohnGalt, your vote really can't do all that much damage, you just really have 0 credibility.

He is not doing that. Neither am I. Our votes are right there for everyone to see.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #617 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 2:51 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:It's not about KG, you're just so stuck to Kobe you'll do things like Vote Karl Malone ahead of Mike, like we couldn't see that one coming

It's cool JohnGalt, your vote really can't do all that much damage, you just really have 0 credibility.

So when I vote for Malone in a year he wins MVP, and loses in 6 close games in the FInals(and explain my reasoning), that's crazy. But multiple people voting for Malone in 98' where MJ was MVP/Finals MVP is perfectly fine? I have never said Kobe > MJ, nor even like the debate. I freely say MJ is the GOAT, so why would I need to knock MJ down??? It's not like Kobe is ahead of TD or Shaq in this project anyway, so what would "knocking" him down prove? I WAS a HUGE MJ fan as kid. I had the Come Fly with Me VHS tape. :lol:

If I was "so stuck to Kobe", then why didn't I raise Hell when he only got 3 first place votes in 2009, or 6 in 08. I respect everyone's opinions, even if I disagree. Do I think those years look vastly different voting wise as compared to others, sure, but everyone is entitled to their views.

But anyway, I'll just put you on ignore out of respect to Dr. MJ, and the others in this project. This is ridiculous.

Silver Bullet · Post #618 » by **Silver Bullet** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 2:55 am

chill out guys.

JordansBulls · Post #619 » by **JordansBulls** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 3:07 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:It's not about KG, you're just so stuck to Kobe you'll do things like Vote Karl Malone ahead of Mike, like we couldn't see that one coming

It's cool JohnGalt, your vote really can't do all that much damage, you just really have 0 credibility.

Wait so An Unbiased Fan is JohnGalt?

An Unbiased Fan · Post #620 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Wed Jun 2, 2010 4:54 am

JordansBulls wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:It's not about KG, you're just so stuck to Kobe you'll do things like Vote Karl Malone ahead of Mike, like we couldn't see that one coming

It's cool JohnGalt, your vote really can't do all that much damage, you just really have 0 credibility.

Wait so An Unbiased Fan is JohnGalt?

No. This is my first & only account.

But let's just drop this. This crap is taking the thread off topic.