Hawks blog on Joe Johnson

[RyGuy24]

We've resisted the rumors that Sam Smith put out a week ago (H/T Blog-A-Bull) that theorized a Joe Johnson deal to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich, Taj Gibson, and draft picks. The notion was total speculation and not based in sources in the Bulls front office.

Yesterday we heard Ric Bucher once again tell the ESPN Radio world that he thought Johnson was a best bet to go to....the Bulls in a SNT (sign and trade) scenario. Bucher made no mention of potential players from Chicago in yesterday's discussion, but his confidence in his opinion gives rise to the 2 questions:

Do Hawks fans want to trade Joe Johnson?

What would the Hawks want from Chicago in a SNT for Joe?

As Smith indicated, they could indeed part with Hinrich, who qualifies as an expendable asset with Rose on-hand and Johnson starting at the shooting guard position. Hinrich has two years and 17 million left on his deal and Gibson would be cheap labor locked up for a long period of time plus whatever draft pick(s) may be in the mix add to the sweetness of the deal. Assuming the two teams would work through cap issues (if any) this could be the type of deal the Hawks could be facing in a SNT deal for Joe.

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2010/5/31 ... n-trade-is

I think we all know the overwhelming opinion on JJ is "no" (mine included), but does including Hinrich and Taj in a S&T mean that a riot wouldn't be thrown? Off my quick calculations, we'd have about 15 million leftover assuming Joe Johnson gets the max (which he very well might not). Dumping James Johnson would then get us into max territory to still go after Bosh or LeBron, or we could still have max money leftover if Joe Johnson got a 1-2 million under his max. This could obviously be used for the aforementioned Bosh or LeBron, or you could give someone like Lee 12 million and still grab another shooter for the bench at the 4.5 million range.

-If you wanted to get crazy, if you did this trade with Atlanta, sign and traded Deng+James Johnson+ picks for Bosh, you could have Joe Johnson, Bosh, and around 13-14 million left to use.

-Or another dream idea: Kirk+Taj for Joe Johnson, sign LeBron James, trade Deng for Jefferson (who I know has his cons, but still).

Rose
Joe Johnson
LeBron James
Al Jefferson
Noah

Many people rightfully say that a Joe Johnson only offseason is disaster, but combining him with another player could be alright. I've never truly considered it until now for some reason since i've never really believed Atlanta would want anything back in a S&T for whatever reason. Not that this opinionated article changes anything, but judging from the mixed opinions (without counting...more positive than negative I would guess) in the comment section, it's certainly plausible.

[xpmar9x]

I still like Joe Johnson, even though he had a crappy postseason. I don't want him at a max contract.

Don't really want to give up Hinrich and Gibson, maybe Hinrich and James Johnson...

[Deepness5134]

I wouldn't have a problem with JJ @ a nonmax price if it still allowed us to get LBJ/Bosh/Boozer/Amare

[dougthonus]

You have to use your cap space first, then do the S&T for Joe Johnson second, then when you use the space we can allocate via free space + the 25% salary matching you can maximize your cap space.

I'd rather dump Deng for Johnson than Hinrich, but certainly losing Hinrich and bringing Bosh, Amare, boozer, or Lee with Johnson takes the sting out of signing him and improves the team tremendously.

[MC dhaos]

Obviously LeBron is the big prize this offseason. And even though I would say Chicago's chances to land him have greatly increased over these past couple months, he's still a long shot. So any situation where we land Joe Johnson AND an elite level low post presence (Bosh, Boozer, Amare) we should all rejoice. That will be a huge score and greatly improve our team. And depending on Rose's and Noah's development we could be legitimate contenders.

So in short, if Joe Johnson for the max or near max is our only offseason acquisition, I'm going to be pissed. But if we can add Joe Johnson and say Bosh, then you can't ask for anything more. That's about the perfect offseason and it's time to get excited.

[Ralphb07]

It still comes down to value of contract but if Joe was at 15mil or under, I'd do this trade. That would mean we're only using 5mil of our cap space at the most, so we'd be able to make other moves.

I see Joe and Atlanta parting ways and I think Gibson and Hinrich get a S&T done.

[red222]

would any1 do deng+fillers 4 joe?

[logical_art]

Obviously LeBron is the big prize this offseason. And even though I would say Chicago's chances to land him have greatly increased over these past couple months, he's still a long shot. So any situation where we land Joe Johnson AND an elite level low post presence (Bosh, Boozer, Amare) we should all rejoice. That will be a huge score and greatly improve our team. And depending on Rose's and Noah's development we could be legitimate contenders.

So in short, if Joe Johnson for the max or near max is our only offseason acquisition, I'm going to be pissed. But if we can add Joe Johnson and say Bosh, then you can't ask for anything more. That's about the perfect offseason and it's time to get excited.

I agree. He'll be overpayed, but having another creator who is also a shooter to go along with Rose and a post player would be huge.

I know Jalen Rose fell off, but Paul Pierce, who is more similar body type wise continues to produce at 33.

[theanimal23]

I seriously wonder who will have more value in June of 2011: Joe Johnson with probably 5 years and $75-85 million left, or Kirk's soon-to-be expiring contract.

I only want Joe Johnson here if that's enough incentive for another elite FA to join us. Otherwise, I pass. And I like Joe Johnson a lot. Just not enough.

[theanimal23]

Obviously LeBron is the big prize this offseason. And even though I would say Chicago's chances to land him have greatly increased over these past couple months, he's still a long shot. So any situation where we land Joe Johnson AND an elite level low post presence (Bosh, Boozer, Amare) we should all rejoice. That will be a huge score and greatly improve our team. And depending on Rose's and Noah's development we could be legitimate contenders.

So in short, if Joe Johnson for the max or near max is our only offseason acquisition, I'm going to be pissed. But if we can add Joe Johnson and say Bosh, then you can't ask for anything more. That's about the perfect offseason and it's time to get excited.

I agree. He'll be overpayed, but having another creator who is also a shooter to go along with Rose and a post player would be huge.

I know Jalen Rose fell off, but Paul Pierce, who is more similar body type wise continues to produce at 33.

Pierce > JJ. Pierce is still legit.

I would not trade Luol for JJ. And I am always open to the possibility of trading him.

[Ralphb07]

You have to use your cap space first, then do the S&T for Joe Johnson second, then when you use the space we can allocate via free space + the 25% salary matching you can maximize your cap space.

I'd rather dump Deng for Johnson than Hinrich, but certainly losing Hinrich and bringing Bosh, Amare, boozer, or Lee with Johnson takes the sting out of signing him and improves the team tremendously.

Yeah, but can't we kind of do it simultaneously though. We have to July 8th before actual contracts are signed. Just need to make the FA signing first

[coldfish]

Obviously LeBron is the big prize this offseason. And even though I would say Chicago's chances to land him have greatly increased over these past couple months, he's still a long shot. So any situation where we land Joe Johnson AND an elite level low post presence (Bosh, Boozer, Amare) we should all rejoice. That will be a huge score and greatly improve our team. And depending on Rose's and Noah's development we could be legitimate contenders.

So in short, if Joe Johnson for the max or near max is our only offseason acquisition, I'm going to be pissed. But if we can add Joe Johnson and say Bosh, then you can't ask for anything more. That's about the perfect offseason and it's time to get excited.

I agree. He'll be overpayed, but having another creator who is also a shooter to go along with Rose and a post player would be huge.

I know Jalen Rose fell off, but Paul Pierce, who is more similar body type wise continues to produce at 33.

Age PER
Pierce
28 23.6
29 21.7
30 19.6
31 17.7
32 18.2

Pierce still produces, but he was a great player at his peak. Joe isn't a great player.
JJ
24 17.9
25 19.5
26 17.3
27 18.2
28 19.3

If JJ slows down as much as Pierce did, he will be an MLE type player within 2 years.

Jalen for the fun of it
28 17.8
29 16.8
30 14.9
31 12.4

[theanimal23]

Obviously LeBron is the big prize this offseason. And even though I would say Chicago's chances to land him have greatly increased over these past couple months, he's still a long shot. So any situation where we land Joe Johnson AND an elite level low post presence (Bosh, Boozer, Amare) we should all rejoice. That will be a huge score and greatly improve our team. And depending on Rose's and Noah's development we could be legitimate contenders.

So in short, if Joe Johnson for the max or near max is our only offseason acquisition, I'm going to be pissed. But if we can add Joe Johnson and say Bosh, then you can't ask for anything more. That's about the perfect offseason and it's time to get excited.

I agree. He'll be overpayed, but having another creator who is also a shooter to go along with Rose and a post player would be huge.

I know Jalen Rose fell off, but Paul Pierce, who is more similar body type wise continues to produce at 33.

Age PER
Pierce
28 23.6
29 21.7
30 19.6
31 17.7
32 18.2

Pierce still produces, but he was a great player at his peak. Joe isn't a great player.
JJ
24 17.9
25 19.5
26 17.3
27 18.2
28 19.3

If JJ slows down as much as Pierce did, he will be an MLE type player within 2 years.

Jalen for the fun of it
28 17.8
29 16.8
30 14.9
31 12.4

Hence why I believe Kirk Hinrich will have higher value than Joe Johnson come the draft of 2011. Kirk will be an expiring, and IMO, Joe Johnson will go from being overrated going into this post-season, to next season just being vastly overpaid and downhill. He will remain a productive player. Many players are productive while being overpaid. Just not productive enough to justify the ramifications financially.

The only way I sign Joe Johnson this summer is if signing him assures us that we land one of the big 3. Otherwise, I am passing on him. Long-time posters on this board know how I feel regarding Deng and Kirk. And I wouldn't trade either for him. I believe Deng is better for this team (not necessarily talent wise), and Kirk will have more value next summer.

[Ralphb07]

Coldfish for every Jalen Rose PER you put up, people can put up a old guy like Manu's. Every player is different and we can't just compare Joe to Jalen every time. I don't want Joe but if we did indeed do a Joe for Kirk and Gibson via sign and trade, that means we'll have enough money to land one of these guys, Boozer, Bosh, Amare or Lee. I'd take Joe at 15mil if we landed one of those PF to pair up with him, Rose, Noah and Deng. That's a finals team IMO.

Rose
Johnson
Deng
Bosh/Boozer/Amare/Lee
Noah

How could anyone complain at getting Joe if it's via sign and trade

[logical_art]

Obviously LeBron is the big prize this offseason. And even though I would say Chicago's chances to land him have greatly increased over these past couple months, he's still a long shot. So any situation where we land Joe Johnson AND an elite level low post presence (Bosh, Boozer, Amare) we should all rejoice. That will be a huge score and greatly improve our team. And depending on Rose's and Noah's development we could be legitimate contenders.

So in short, if Joe Johnson for the max or near max is our only offseason acquisition, I'm going to be pissed. But if we can add Joe Johnson and say Bosh, then you can't ask for anything more. That's about the perfect offseason and it's time to get excited.

I agree. He'll be overpayed, but having another creator who is also a shooter to go along with Rose and a post player would be huge.

I know Jalen Rose fell off, but Paul Pierce, who is more similar body type wise continues to produce at 33.

Age PER
Pierce
28 23.6
29 21.7
30 19.6
31 17.7
32 18.2

Pierce still produces, but he was a great player at his peak. Joe isn't a great player.
JJ
24 17.9
25 19.5
26 17.3
27 18.2
28 19.3

If JJ slows down as much as Pierce did, he will be an MLE type player within 2 years.

Jalen for the fun of it
28 17.8
29 16.8
30 14.9
31 12.4

I agree there is some risk, although Pierce's decrease in production coincided with two great players being added and therefore reduced opportunities for him. Look at his TS% in the last few years, it's higher than his career average. Another thing working in Johnson's favor is that he was a better shooter than Rose. Combine that with his bulk that will allow him to work the post up game as he slows down and I think he should age more like Pierce than Rose.

In any case, if it is essentially a Deng for JJ swap, I think the risk is worthwhile.

Edit: Or Hinrich and Taj.

[Ralphb07]

The only way I sign Joe Johnson this summer is if signing him assures us that we land one of the big 3. Otherwise, I am passing on him. Long-time posters on this board know how I feel regarding Deng and Kirk. And I wouldn't trade either for him. I believe Deng is better for this team (not necessarily talent wise), and Kirk will have more value next summer.

If we're doing a S&T for Joe Johnson and with Kirk and Gibson, that would give us 15 million in cap space, what PF wouldn't want to come to Chicago for 15 or max to team up with Rose, Joe, Deng and Noah?

Edit: The reason I say max is because of what Doug said earlier.

[theanimal23]

The only way I sign Joe Johnson this summer is if signing him assures us that we land one of the big 3. Otherwise, I am passing on him. Long-time posters on this board know how I feel regarding Deng and Kirk. And I wouldn't trade either for him. I believe Deng is better for this team (not necessarily talent wise), and Kirk will have more value next summer.

If we're doing a S&T for Joe Johnson and with Kirk and Gibson, that would give us 15 million in cap space, what PF wouldn't want to come to Chicago for 15 or max to team up with Rose, Joe, Deng and Noah?

I agree. May just be me. I just have a very bad feeling about a JJ signing/S&T. Really bad.

And JJ IMO isn't the prototypical SG we'd want next to Rose or that offense. Won't be enough touches, solid 3pt shooting, etc. That said, the scenario you pointed out, yes I'll take that each and every time if it's presented. But I wonder if this is a route that is feasible, because we must ask ourselves this:

Will the Bulls be ready to pay in 2-3 years:
Rose 15 mil
JJ 15 mil
Deng 14 mil
Bosh 18 mil
Noah 11 mil

That starting lineup is over $70 million dollars.

[red222]

The only way I sign Joe Johnson this summer is if signing him assures us that we land one of the big 3. Otherwise, I am passing on him. Long-time posters on this board know how I feel regarding Deng and Kirk. And I wouldn't trade either for him. I believe Deng is better for this team (not necessarily talent wise), and Kirk will have more value next summer.

If we're doing a S&T for Joe Johnson and with Kirk and Gibson, that would give us 15 million in cap space, what PF wouldn't want to come to Chicago for 15 or max to team up with Rose, Joe, Deng and Noah?

I agree. May just be me. I just have a very bad feeling about a JJ signing/S&T. Really bad.

And JJ IMO isn't the prototypical SG we'd want next to Rose or that offense. Won't be enough touches, solid 3pt shooting, etc. That said, the scenario you pointed out, yes I'll take that each and every time if it's presented. But I wonder if this is a route that is feasible, because we must ask ourselves this:

Will the Bulls be ready to pay in 2-3 years:
Rose 15 mil
JJ 15 mil
Deng 14 mil
Bosh 18 mil
Noah 11 mil

That starting lineup is over $70 million dollars.

jerry wont pay for that unless he thought they would get to the finals imo

[randpaul420]

The YaoPau breakdown, the comparisons to Jalen and the fact that he has disappeared in the playoffs the last 2 years has me wanting no part of him at any cost. Well, I'd do a 3 year deal.

RS 08-09: 21.4 PPG
RS 09-10: 21.3

PO 08-09: 16.4
PO 09-10: 17.9

[Ralphb07]

And JJ IMO isn't the prototypical SG we'd want next to Rose or that offense. Won't be enough touches, solid 3pt shooting, etc. That said, the scenario you pointed out, yes I'll take that each and every time if it's presented. But I wonder if this is a route that is feasible, because we must ask ourselves this:

His only year with Nash, he was awesome and had career high in FG and 3pt % I believe. Atlanta's offense is iso and many NBA people have made fun of Atlanta's offense, so the whole Joe needs the ball isn't true when you factor in him with Suns and the team he was currently on. I'm not saying go for Joe Johnson, just feel if you can do that sign and trade and have money for the bigs, you do it

Will the Bulls be ready to pay in 2-3 years:
Rose 15 mil
JJ 15 mil
Deng 14 mil
Bosh 18 mil
Noah 11 mil

That starting lineup is over $70 million dollars.

That's something I wasn't factoring in but IMO with that five, we can win with vet minimums guys. Maybe Deng goes to Toronto or Utah via sign and trade this year as well.

Edit: The question is who do we want as the 4th guy Deng or Joe? Me it's Deng so retract everything I said, I'd rather Deng