Johnson or Cousins? Vote!

[mefromthefuture]

I voted for Wes and I'm brave enough to post and say why. I prefer Darko+Al to any combo with Cousins first of all. Secondly, I'm ready to win some games and as far as getting better, there is no way that we will win more games with Cousins than we would if we added Johnson. Thirdly, I want athletes and Cousins is the furthest thing from an NBA athlete (not saying he can't succeed).

We won 15 games I think anybody in the top 5 in the draft should be able to help us get better because I don't see how it could get worse.

[Breakdown777]

Cuz, easily. I'm a firm believer of BPA until we have something to build around.

[horaceworthy]

He is an athlete, because he is good offensively. However, he's going to be slow getting down the floor, is already considered lazy on D and doesn't have the motor or athleticism to make up for that. At least with Al and Love we know they have bought into our system and understand where they need to improve. Cousins has a hard head and may not realize his weak defense for a couple years.

Cousins was fine getting up and down the floor at Kentucky.

He didn't really look lazy while on the floor at Kentucky. He actually looked a little too aggressive. Al and Love have certainly looked lazy on D this past year.

We most certainly do not know that Al and love have bought into the system, and even if they work at it, it still could very well be a couple years before they manage to improve it. Love and Al have both come off a bit hard headed at times as well. I think you're applying a bit of a double standard here.

[Quentin]

He is an athlete, because he is good offensively. However, he's going to be slow getting down the floor, is already considered lazy on D and doesn't have the motor or athleticism to make up for that. At least with Al and Love we know they have bought into our system and understand where they need to improve. Cousins has a hard head and may not realize his weak defense for a couple years.

Cousins was fine getting up and down the floor at Kentucky.

He didn't really look lazy while on the floor at Kentucky. He actually looked a little too aggressive. Al and Love have certainly looked lazy on D this past year.

We most certainly do not know that Al and love have bought into the system, and even if they work at it, it still could very well be a couple years before they manage to improve it. Love and Al have both come off a bit hard headed at times as well. I think you're applying a bit of a double standard here.

Having money changes people. When Cousins is a millionaire, will he still have a passion for the game and keeping his body in shape? Maybe he gets lazy because he's thinking about his new kitchen with all that food in it.

[Foye]

He is an athlete, because he is good offensively. However, he's going to be slow getting down the floor, is already considered lazy on D and doesn't have the motor or athleticism to make up for that. At least with Al and Love we know they have bought into our system and understand where they need to improve. Cousins has a hard head and may not realize his weak defense for a couple years.

Cousins was fine getting up and down the floor at Kentucky.

He didn't really look lazy while on the floor at Kentucky. He actually looked a little too aggressive. Al and Love have certainly looked lazy on D this past year.

We most certainly do not know that Al and love have bought into the system, and even if they work at it, it still could very well be a couple years before they manage to improve it. Love and Al have both come off a bit hard headed at times as well. I think you're applying a bit of a double standard here.

Having money changes people. When Cousins is a millionaire, will he still have a passion for the game and keeping his body in shape? Maybe he gets lazy because he's thinking about his new kitchen with all that food in it.

Couldn't you say that about every player then?

[Darko Miliminutes]

Keep in mind folks that Cousins faced shrimps all year. The couple times that he went against a decent front-court, he was mediocre at best. He was a man among boys all year (that's because he was bigger, not because he was so superior). Huge potential to flop! Putting so much stock into a big that has had absolutely no competition to gauge him on. I think people might be viewing him a bit too highly.

But i can certainly understand the appeal, and see why so many people are forecasting him to be so good. Just a lot of wishful thinking i fear. I hope i'm wrong, but i betcha he busts.

[C.lupus]

Having money changes people. When Cousins is a millionaire, will he still have a passion for the game and keeping his body in shape? Maybe he gets lazy because he's thinking about his new kitchen with all that food in it.

Maybe the sense of security, lack of idiots yelling racial taunts, professional trainers, good big-men coaches, and playing against Howard will motivate him to get in better shape and hit the weight room. Who knows?

[AQuintus]

Keep in mind folks that Cousins faced shrimps all year. The couple times that he went against a decent front-court, he was mediocre at best.

He had bad games against Morehead St. (11/13), UNC (12/5), Tennessee (2/13), Georgia (3/3), Florida (3/7), Alabama (3/12), and East Tennessee St. (3/18)

The only one of those teams that has a good front court is UNC.

[[RCG]]

Keep in mind folks that Cousins faced shrimps all year. The couple times that he went against a decent front-court, he was mediocre at best.

He had bad games against Morehead St. (11/13), UNC (12/5), Tennessee (2/13), Georgia (3/3), Florida (3/7), Alabama (3/12), and East Tennessee St. (3/18)

The only one of those teams that has a good front court is UNC.

So is that a good thing or a bad thing, I might be worried that he struggled going up against a weak front-court. Anyway I just hope DeMarcus doesn't end up being the NBA version of JaMarcus.

[AQuintus]

So is that a good thing or a bad thing, I might be worried that he struggled going up against a weak front-court. Anyway I just hope DeMarcus doesn't end up being the NBA version of JaMarcus.

I'm not really sure. For the most part, he dominated all season, but for one reason or another he had those off nights. I don't think that the opposing teams front courts were the problem, though. I'd say that the 2 best front courts he played against were UNC (where he struggled) and Vanderbilt (where he dominated both games, and killed Ogilvy's draft stock).

[Worm Guts]

The only way Cousins flops is if he just doesn't care or he's too stubborn to take coaching. He's too talented not be good otherwise.

[shrink]

I was surprised when I looked at the consensus Mock Draft.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/18/cons ... index.html

At #4, six have us taking Cousins, and six have us taking Wes Johnson. Now, this may be because of fit, and I think that many mocks focus too much on "win now" when I think that MIN's biggest need isn't a position, but a shot at a star. Still, I have to admit I've believed there is a huge drop off between #4 and #5, and maybe - for us - that its far closer.

[Darko Miliminutes]

Keep in mind folks that Cousins faced shrimps all year. The couple times that he went against a decent front-court, he was mediocre at best.

He had bad games against Morehead St. (11/13), UNC (12/5), Tennessee (2/13), Georgia (3/3), Florida (3/7), Alabama (3/12), and East Tennessee St. (3/18)

The only one of those teams that has a good front court is UNC.

So is that a good thing or a bad thing, I might be worried that he struggled going up against a weak front-court. Anyway I just hope DeMarcus doesn't end up being the NBA version of JaMarcus.

Often times things get overlooked when pre-draft hype rolls into town. So many people spend so much time projecting best case scenarios, and ignore what usually happens to potential bigs. They either, flat out don't work, or turn into longer term projects. I believe he has upside, but he's a long ways to go and a lot of things to change. Lots of them can't handle that change/development.

[Esohny]

I'm sure everyone here is well aware of that. We do have Darko on the team, after all.

[Krapinsky]

The Wages of WIns guys make a case for Cousins as the best player in the draft.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/ ... e-wizards/

[Esohny]

The Wages of WIns guys make a case for Cousins as the best player in the draft.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/ ... e-wizards/

Meh. He supports his claim with the example of Derrick Rose scoring relatively low on his measure and then not playing well in the NBA...

[AQuintus]

The Wages of WIns guys make a case for Cousins as the best player in the draft.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/ ... e-wizards/

This brings all the same problems that Hollinger's made up statistics bring. You can't judge players solely based on box score stats while ignoring intangibles, upside, athleticism, and defense. The whole thing is especially pointless when you realize that anyone could take those players season stats per 36 (or 40 or 48 or whatever) and come to the exact same conclusions that Berri's calculations lead to.

Edit:

I feel kind of dumb saying that now because he says pretty much the same things in his article. The D Rose example pretty much says it all, though.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think the worst case scenario for Cousins is that he sucks....in 5 years. But he shouldn't be able to eat and lazify himself of the league before then, ample time to get on court production and trade value for him.

[C.lupus]

I'm leary of any stat named 'Position Adjusted Win Score per 40 minutes'. So it's some kind of abstract stat that they had adjust by position and again by minutes played, I guess? Why not do a log transformation and then do an ordination on it while you're at it?

I'm going to make up my own stat and start a blog. Tranformed height-adjusted positional performance stat (THAPPS). Wall has a THAPPS score of log18, Turner's THAPPS is log16.7893356, and Cousins is log15.789224858605. See how good it is?

[horaceworthy]

Having money changes people. When Cousins is a millionaire, will he still have a passion for the game and keeping his body in shape? Maybe he gets lazy because he's thinking about his new kitchen with all that food in it.

Maybe he ends up hiring a personal chef and nutritionist because now he'll have to be in better shape in order to be mentioned as one of the best big men/players in the league/class that he's in. This could go both ways, I have no idea what approach Cousins will take to basketball once he gets paid.

My objection was to dunkonu21 applying such a blatant double standard to Cousins in comparison to Love and Jefferson, as well as his observations on Cousins while he was at Kentucky.