Operation Beast: Prospect Thread II

[horaceworthy]

As for Cousins, I always thought Cousins looked weird in his jersey; it was super tight, but then John Wall's looked too tight too, so I figured it was just part of their bizarre style. But nonetheless, he never looked very sculpted. The 16% thing was direct confirmation of a suspicion lot of people probably had that Cousins doesn't take fitness seriously. His comments about it have only made it worse. And everytime you have a player that has these problems - Shaq, Sheed, Coleman - its always the same story, very talented, but underachieved because they didn't want to go the extra mile. Shaq and Sheed got some good miles and didn't really let go until late, but Cousins is starting from behind right from the start. Orlando Shaq and Cousins are night and day from a physical dominance standpoint.

I agree it was confirmation that Cousins is chunky, I disagree when people act like it's news. It's been evident throughout the year.

I'm with you on the Shaq/Sheed/Coleman comps, in that they got in the way of their own success (I'd throw Barkley in there as well). All were able to achieve some degree of success in the NBA, but not as much as they could have. The question with Cousins is if he's talented enough to carry a team despite their issues. Shaq, Sheed and Barkley were, and actually managed to play a huge role on contenders when they did so. Cousins very well could have that type of talent, I can't remember seeing a similar combination of length, bulk, good feet and skill in recent years. Too bad it comes in a package with so many warning labels on it.

[Esohny]

Well, you gotta risk it to get the biscuit...




And, I'm disappointed that I didn't make this "Fired Up" reference as my 4000th post, but I still stand behind it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

As for Cousins, I always thought Cousins looked weird in his jersey; it was super tight, but then John Wall's looked too tight too, so I figured it was just part of their bizarre style. But nonetheless, he never looked very sculpted. The 16% thing was direct confirmation of a suspicion lot of people probably had that Cousins doesn't take fitness seriously. His comments about it have only made it worse. And everytime you have a player that has these problems - Shaq, Sheed, Coleman - its always the same story, very talented, but underachieved because they didn't want to go the extra mile. Shaq and Sheed got some good miles and didn't really let go until late, but Cousins is starting from behind right from the start. Orlando Shaq and Cousins are night and day from a physical dominance standpoint.

I agree it was confirmation that Cousins is chunky, I disagree when people act like it's news. It's been evident throughout the year.

I'm with you on the Shaq/Sheed/Coleman comps, in that they got in the way of their own success (I'd throw Barkley in there as well). All were able to achieve some degree of success in the NBA, but not as much as they could have. The question with Cousins is if he's talented enough to carry a team despite their issues. Shaq, Sheed and Barkley were, and actually managed to play a huge role on contenders when they did so. Cousins very well could have that type of talent, I can't remember seeing a similar combination of length, bulk, good feet and skill in recent years. Too bad it comes in a package with so many warning labels on it.

thats what I"m saying, that it was not news, you could clearly see he wasn't in shape and the fat testing was confirmation of exactly how bad it was. And Jon G made a great point - Cousins was bragging about how he'd been on this salad and seafood diet - so does that mean he was worse than 16% during the season?

And the Shaq/SHeed/Barkley comparisons; the scary difference for me is that they started out in pretty good shape and as explosive players. Nobody could contain Shaq and Barkley around the basket, and Blazers Sheed through 1st year Pistons Sheed were in decent enough condition. So all these guys started off acceptable, and later let themselves go. Cousins is starting off worse than all those guys from a conditioning standpoint.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I'd like to officially announce that I'm doing a 180 on Favors and am withdrawing my bet w/ Rev in cowardly fashion. I got too caught up in evaluating how he looks now, but failed to realize how far he is from peak physical development and how much potential he has from a strength standpoint.

[C.lupus]

Barkley was heavier in college and lost weight when he went to the NBA. He wasn't known as the round mound of rebound for nothing. You guys are comparing Cousins to Shaq and Barkley like that is a bad thing.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Barkley and Shaq have shown explosive power that Cousins hasn't. Cousins is nimble for a giant guy, but he's not explosive.

[Worm Guts]

I knew Cousins wasn't in great condition, but I was suprised by 16.6 percent fat. I wouldn't have expected to have significantly more body fat than guys like Kevin Love or DeJuan Blair.

[Klomp]

Sounds like we are bringing in former Gopher Damian Johnson in for a workout June 21 for a possible summer league spot. Personally, I would LOVE to give him a shot to make this team. He'd instantly be one of our best defenders.

Heres the only decent video I could find on Youtube of just him. Warning: not the greatest video quality, but you get an idea of his athleticism

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1hPSxoX7E[/youtube]

He is an energy guy. Not a great offensive threat, but very active on defense. I think he's similar to a Luc Richard Mbah a Moute.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think he's similar to poop

[mnWI]

Yeah, Johnson isn't close to good enough to play in the NBA right now.

[Vindicater]

How I would like our picks to play out as of today (3rd of June)

4th pick - Wesley Johnson

Turner is who I really want, but barring that I take Johnson and watch as Cousins eats himself out of the league in 5 seasons. Johnson is not a star player but h is perfect for what we want to do and will help us improve.

16th pick - Hassan Whiteside

If I am going to take a big man in this draft it is this guy with our later pick, he is extremely raw and has some maturity issues but his size, athleticism and length are freakish and would provide a great defensive force in years to come.

23rd pick - James Anderson

Another strong wing player who can hit the outside shot, likely a small forward but we would try and adapt his game to a shooting guard.

45th pick - Charles Garcia

A big body to throw around in training camp who might make the list in the end.

56th pick - Nemanja Bjelica

Stash him overseas and hope that he can become the next Toni Kukoc, if not its only the 56th pick in a draft with five picks, very low risk for very high reward pick here.

[Krapinsky]

Figures that I would hate all of those picks, haha.

EDIT: except Bjelica at 56

[Esohny]

Figures that I would hate all of those picks, haha.

Me too, for the 4 and 16 at least. I wouldn't hate Anderson at 23 even if it wouldn't be my top choice, and I'm more indifferent to the 2nd rounders.

I think Whiteside at 16 would actually be worse than Johnson at 4 (which would be pretty bad). At least Johnson should be a solid player; Whiteside is just going to bust.

[mnWI]

Everybody is way too down on Whiteside over character concerns that exist in the media.

[Krapinsky]

Everybody is way too down on Whiteside over character concerns that exist in the media.

My main worry is that his BBIQ is so low that he won't see much court time in the next 3-4 years. He had like 10 assists all year. All year!

[Casperkid23]

Everybody is way too down on Whiteside over character concerns that exist in the media.

My main worry is that his BBIQ is so low that he won't see much court time in the next 3-4 years. He had like 10 assists all year. All year!

Used B-R.com's nifty search engine to compile a list of players who played more than 40 games in a season with more than 25mpg but less than .7 assists per 36 minutes (Whiteside had .4asts per 36 mins).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _by=player

Not exactly a list of superstars. Then again, someone's got to be first. Dude is raw, hopefully it's a part of his game that he'll eventually fix.

[mnWI]

Everybody is way too down on Whiteside over character concerns that exist in the media.

My main worry is that his BBIQ is so low that he won't see much court time in the next 3-4 years. He had like 10 assists all year. All year!

His defensive IQ is quite impressive. From a defensive perspective he'll have to become a better one on one post defender in the NBA, but his help defense, recovery, positioning and instincts are very impressive. He also needs more lower body strength but has added good strength in his upper body.

Offensively he'll be a pick and pop 5. He has almost no back to the bakset game, and won't be double teamed in the post ever. The lack of assists is worrisome sure, but as a coach I wouldn't put him in a position to get many anyway. For a guy like that to have a high basketball IQ I would teach him when to flash high and when to get flat when he's working opposite of a post big, and show him how to read pick and roll situations (pop, dive, slip).

[horaceworthy]

thats what I"m saying, that it was not news, you could clearly see he wasn't in shape and the fat testing was confirmation of exactly how bad it was. And Jon G made a great point - Cousins was bragging about how he'd been on this salad and seafood diet - so does that mean he was worse than 16% during the season?

Given how Jon G and a couple others that saw him there were talking about him looking slimmer, I kinda assumed it was worse during the season. The only quote I caught about the seafood diet was when he was joking around about going fishing for the first time.

And the Shaq/SHeed/Barkley comparisons; the scary difference for me is that they started out in pretty good shape and as explosive players. Nobody could contain Shaq and Barkley around the basket, and Blazers Sheed through 1st year Pistons Sheed were in decent enough condition. So all these guys started off acceptable, and later let themselves go. Cousins is starting off worse than all those guys from a conditioning standpoint.

Barkley didn't start out in pretty good shape. If Big Baby has a big game this series, you'll probably hear Barkley credit Moses Malone for getting him in shape. He was certainly a more explosive leaper. Barkley then later let himself go, but he reeled himself in first. Shaq also alternated back and forth between reeled in and let go.

Cousins looks like he could be pretty tough to contain around the basket as well. He's not an explosive leaper, but he gets off his feet fairly quickly, and has a good second jump. Plus he's got that insane reach, same standing reach as Shaq, although Shaq's got him by an inch in wingspan.

I have no idea if Cousins will be able to control his weight, but I think that if he does he might be good enough to help carry a team. Like you seem to be, I'm also worried that he'll end up being his own worst enemy.

[Krapinsky]

Everybody is way too down on Whiteside over character concerns that exist in the media.

My main worry is that his BBIQ is so low that he won't see much court time in the next 3-4 years. He had like 10 assists all year. All year!

His defensive IQ is quite impressive. From a defensive perspective he'll have to become a better one on one post defender in the NBA, but his help defense, recovery, positioning and instincts are very impressive. He also needs more lower body strength but has added good strength in his upper body.

Offensively he'll be a pick and pop 5. He has almost no back to the bakset game, and won't be double teamed in the post ever. The lack of assists is worrisome sure, but as a coach I wouldn't put him in a position to get many anyway. For a guy like that to have a high basketball IQ I would teach him when to flash high and when to get flat when he's working opposite of a post big, and show him how to read pick and roll situations (pop, dive, slip).

If you have a moment, I'm wondering if you can compare/contrast how his learning curve will be different than Thabeet's, who still looks a long way from being able to make an impact, if ever. Is Whiteside much further along at this point? Thabeet was able to put up 25-20-5 games in college and the development of his 15 footer was touted during the workout process. Granted, Whiteside's jump shot is much, much better.

[dunkonu21]

Lance Stevenson lost 17 LBS since the season ended. Pretty impressive, he could be our guy at 23?