O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::.

[gavran]

It's unfortunte that they made things up to prove their point (since the video is against the people who manipulate us), because I do belive that their main point (christianaty is just a child of the Egyptian religion) is right, and the Bible is connected to astronomy. The book, Hamlet's mill by Giorgio de Satillana is about this subjet, it deals with precession, astronomy, and how did the ancient cultures code this knowledge in their myths and religion.-

[j4remi]

Pretty awesome documentary for people interested in m-theory, string theory, quantum mechanics, blah blah blah...things we've only just begun to understand but that change your views on reality.

Illusion of Reality - http://documentaryheaven.com/the-illusion-of-reality/

Documentary Heaven is sick!

[JuwannaJeffries]

Good thread, I enjoy reading this stuff when I get a break in work but cant watch the videos. One thing, I am very close to a Grand Master Mason and there is no way Jay Z is a real free mason.

What does everyone think about the large hadron collider in Europe? Dangerous or not? What kind of advancements can it help with?

[j4remi]

Good thread, I enjoy reading this stuff when I get a break in work but cant watch the videos. One thing, I am very close to a Grand Master Mason and there is no way Jay Z is a real free mason.

What does everyone think about the large hadron collider in Europe? Dangerous or not? What kind of advancements can it help with?

It sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie, but the possibilities are absolutely endless. It could unlock a whole new realm of possibilities.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Good thread, I enjoy reading this stuff when I get a break in work but cant watch the videos. One thing, I am very close to a Grand Master Mason and there is no way Jay Z is a real free mason.

What does everyone think about the large hadron collider in Europe? Dangerous or not? What kind of advancements can it help with?

A big fan of the collider. Don't think its dangerous at all.

[magnumt]

What does everyone think about the large hadron collider in Europe? Dangerous or not? What kind of advancements can it help with?

I'm pro it.

While it can create micro-black holes, there's no real danger of anything. It will offer a TON of possibilities in Scientific Advancement for the next 50 Years or so as new boundaries on experiments can be tested. Some Theories that were long thought non-testable, can now be either proven false, re-worked with the new Data, or proven true.

We'll see a lot of sudden advancements I think over the next 50 Years (think of it like the breakout advancements we experienced during the Industrial Revolution up until the 50's/60's).

Exciting times indeed IMO.

--Mags

[richardhutnik]

I don't care about the whole thing...but I am interested in the entire opening about Jesus. It doesn't call Jesus a fraud btw, it just points out all of the stories and how they fit in with many other religious figures and gives a pretty clear definition of solar worship. Like I said, I lean toward Buddhism as a religion, so I don't take this as an insult or freak out about it...but I do take interest in how others choose to look at it.

The movie is a mishmash where the creator of the film is trying to create a piece that takes together multiple conspiracies and tries to link them into one greater piece. The motivation usually behind such work, is a longing by the creator to be recognized as a genius and secure a place in history as the person who explained it all, and is dead on. They want to have what they are railing against, a religious structure and power. If not this, then there is the case of the person who goes mad connecting the dots and thinks they found the grand source of evil, and feel a need to expose it. They would the, if they were a sports fan, also attach their team losing a key championship series, to some other secret cabal.

An issue with conspiracy theories is they very likely come from the same part of the brain people use to create large works of fiction. There is the same causing consistencies in texts that drives a person to connect the dots and fill in the blanks, as they would with any work of fiction. Hey, maybe the drive to come up with conspiracies is the individual railing against the collective creative process found in governments, marketplaces and religious tradition, that makes them feel threatened by it as an artist, so it is their way of fighting back. The artist longs to be the person who inspires. They want their work to matter. They want to be a god, and shape reality. The artist can be the writer, the poet, the comic, or painter. Throw in film makers also, and other people who write non-fiction philosophy pieces. Even the person who claims to not do this and stands behind science and reason (as opposed to the other artist), wants to be able to know what their tool set is (and the rules) so they can make their own world as they choose. It is all about power.

Several works out now use these as plot devices. Alan Wake is one of them. It goes into the artist as a shaper of the world (there is a tiny spoiler in there but it is early on). You can also see "The Unwritten", the graphic novel, that addresses it to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unwritten

The artist wants to be a creator whose shaping of form is honored and worshiped. They want to be a god. Anyone who hinders this happening is seen as the enemy, and if it happens repeatedly, then there HAS to be a common enemy out to get them. And this is the conspiracy, and they apply their own ability to create to this.

- Rich

[j4remi]

I don't care about the whole thing...but I am interested in the entire opening about Jesus. It doesn't call Jesus a fraud btw, it just points out all of the stories and how they fit in with many other religious figures and gives a pretty clear definition of solar worship. Like I said, I lean toward Buddhism as a religion, so I don't take this as an insult or freak out about it...but I do take interest in how others choose to look at it.

The movie is a mishmash where the creator of the film is trying to create a piece that takes together multiple conspiracies and tries to link them into one greater piece. The motivation usually behind such work, is a longing by the creator to be recognized as a genius and secure a place in history as the person who explained it all, and is dead on. They want to have what they are railing against, a religious structure and power. If not this, then there is the case of the person who goes mad connecting the dots and thinks they found the grand source of evil, and feel a need to expose it. They would the, if they were a sports fan, also attach their team losing a key championship series, to some other secret cabal.

An issue with conspiracy theories is they very likely come from the same part of the brain people use to create large works of fiction. There is the same causing consistencies in texts that drives a person to connect the dots and fill in the blanks, as they would with any work of fiction. Hey, maybe the drive to come up with conspiracies is the individual railing against the collective creative process found in governments, marketplaces and religious tradition, that makes them feel threatened by it as an artist, so it is their way of fighting back. The artist longs to be the person who inspires. They want their work to matter. They want to be a god, and shape reality. The artist can be the writer, the poet, the comic, or painter. Throw in film makers also, and other people who write non-fiction philosophy pieces. Even the person who claims to not do this and stands behind science and reason (as opposed to the other artist), wants to be able to know what their tool set is (and the rules) so they can make their own world as they choose. It is all about power.

Several works out now use these as plot devices. Alan Wake is one of them. It goes into the artist as a shaper of the world (there is a tiny spoiler in there but it is early on). You can also see "The Unwritten", the graphic novel, that addresses it to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unwritten

The artist wants to be a creator whose shaping of form is honored and worshiped. They want to be a god. Anyone who hinders this happening is seen as the enemy, and if it happens repeatedly, then there HAS to be a common enemy out to get them. And this is the conspiracy, and they apply their own ability to create to this.

- Rich

Nice post, well said, I agree that 90% of conspiracy theories are either due to lack of quality information or pure paranoia...but I like the Christ portion because I really don't buy the Bible as literal any more. Duetta's got a couple of nice posts that articulate my feelings in ways that I could never hope to. Simply put, I threw the link in to stimulate discussion. I'm not with the whole illuminati movement (as I stated earlier) but I do think religion has been used as a tool by many in power or to gain power.

[richardhutnik]

I watched it and it's interesting it shed light on what I stated. 2 Holidays in particular derive from Sun Worship Christmas and Easter....

What I found interesting is that it used scriptural references and paralleled them with astrology. Whoever did this piece must have ignored numerous passages in the biblical text that denounces the practice of astrology. Matter of fact Astrology played a major role in the Bible and Jesus birth and let's just say the role it played wasn't a good one.

Christmas got picked up to "keep up with the Joneses". When Christianity stop being a sect of the Jewish religion, by bringing in non-Jews (Paul is attributed to being a part of this) and also by the Jewish people not accepting Jesus as the Messiah, it began to accommodate itself to the culture around it. Treating birthdays were special, so the birth of Christ became elevated, as a book end to his death, which was celebrated from the beginning. Whether this is good or not, depends on whether people of a religions should shun (Amish do this for the most part) or use it.

As for Easter (Pagan name), which goes by Pascha based on the church I am affiliated with now (and based around a Lunar, as opposed to Solar calendar), is akin to Passover in how the calendar works (Ramadan is similar). The Roman Empire under Constantine became accommodating for Christians, and the decision was to base a calendar around the sun, rather than the moon. And this then maps with spring, and also enables mapping to pagan culture better.

All this is what went on. People can try to read more into it than that, but that isn't the case. All this myth talk ends up going WAY back also (gnostics were an early example of this), and why you had people of the Christian faith repeatedly defending the faith, by saying who they knew, and tracing so and so knew so and so all the way back to the disciples, who then trace to Jesus. If people don't know this, then they easily will get caught up in this or that latest work of fiction that is just as strange as the Christian faith, but is more reasonable to their sensibilities, and doesn't demand anything of them.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

We aren't really talking about the belief in this stuff. At least, I'm not. I'm just talking about the possibility. It's mind-blowingly interesting.

Possibilities can be mind-blowing, particularly when you consider they are real. Of course, what one considers possible leads to how mind-blowing it is.

Anyhow, want mind-blowing? Get ahold of Alan Wake, or at least read the spoilers on it. What that goes into is an interesting spin on the creation process. For a videogame, it is a good story-telling process.

- Rich

[j4remi]

We aren't really talking about the belief in this stuff. At least, I'm not. I'm just talking about the possibility. It's mind-blowingly interesting.

Possibilities can be mind-blowing, particularly when you consider they are real. Of course, what one considers possible leads to how mind-blowing it is.

Anyhow, want mind-blowing? Get ahold of Alan Wake, or at least read the spoilers on it. What that goes into is an interesting spin on the creation process. For a videogame, it is a good story-telling process.

- Rich

If you don't take risks and explore theories than you eliminate the opportunity to advance. Point in case, string theory being laughed at but slowly becoming more and more accepted and explored through new discoveries.

I'm buying Alan Wake for my nephew's b-day this week and I'm gonna have him bring his Xbox to my crib for quality family time. If I'm disappointed, I will totally virus bomb you . I want Heavy Rain too but funds aren't cooperating.

[richardhutnik]

wow dude, excellent find! I'll definitely be reading this. Loved this part in particular
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

My own mind is my church, is excellent. I've studied catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism and a handful of others ranging from Eastern philosophies to the religions of our ancestors...collected the principles I felt were most abundant or important...and came up with my own beliefs by adding in modern science and knowledge.Like I said before, Buddhism is easily my favorite, but I don't subscribe to any single institution or any rigid guidelines to finding "God."

Individuals like the Unabomber, and individuals who spawn terrorism in this modern era think they are their own "Church" (and they think it is suitable). These individuals feel a need to end up going against social norms, not fit in, and lead rebellions that cause blood in the streets. They are another form of destruction that ends up driving people who work for a living to require more power for the normal social structure.

I will say, OF COURSE each person is going to think their own mind is excellent. They will think they got it figured out, because it feels nice and tidy. It fits their world in a box. What really ends up leading to growth is the unanswered questions, the wonders of life like quantum physics, and the things like Buddhist koans that strip away your own understanding and force you to start over from the beginning. In the few koans of Buddhism I have run into (I would be up for getting more), I see principles in metaphysics that become revealed. However, all those neat and tidy thoughts only go so far. Doing and results is what counts. And, on that note, I will close with this bit of wisdom from Bruce Campbell:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1OxkFOK18[/youtube]

- Rich

[Deeeez Knicks]

The mystery’s of the cosmo’s is amazing to me. Just looking up at the sky and trying to comprehend the vasness of it all. The universe as infinite and everexpanding. So many questions that may never be answered. What shape is the universe? What is beyond the universe? Or is there even any shape or anything beyond? Black holes, dark matter, antigravity suits, hot tub time machines, the big bang, the moons of Jupiter. So many questions.

I wonder if we will ever go to Mars in our lifetime? Or other planets? But we really need to go to the moon again first. The moon is the key to space travel. As a launch pad to interstellar exploration. If we could set up stations on the moon, create fuel on the moon (there’s plenty of water), space exploration would be much easier. Less gravity and atmosphere to launch from.

But hey, everything is about money. If there’s no profit involved, no reason to do it. That’s why solar and wind power are not advancing quickly. The source is free. Much more profitable to make a smaller ipod or better tv’s and stick with oil. Who cares if its destroying the planet and taking money from our pockets and putting it into some fat cat oil tycoon. Yeah, maybe it’s a giant conspiracy. A group of people bent on world domination. Mostly, its just about $$.

Aliens, spaceships, and UFO’s. I really do not believe aliens have ever been to this planet or started life here or helped build the pyramids. Just good old fashioned ingenuity and hard work/slaves. Some really really smart people back then who could build things. They probably even had some technology that we can not even dream of. Ideas we can’t even begin to think of. And maybe they even drew helicopters or planes and submarines. It’s very possible they thought of these things without the help of aliens. It makes much more sense. Hey, DaVinci thought of helicopters, tanks, solar power. Aliens didn’t help him do it. Or did they??

But all the alien theorys remind me of how people used to explain God for everything. Why is the sun there? Why is the sky blue? Why do we look like we do? Aliens, similar thing. Whats that in the sky? How did they build the pyramids? How was rubber created? Why don’t I remember the past 10 hours and my ass hurts? Just my opinion and I am probably wrong, but I always try to look at a scientific explanation.

But I do love this thread and outside the box thinking. It is truly great and I encourage it all. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in an incoherent rant.

[richardhutnik]

We aren't really talking about the belief in this stuff. At least, I'm not. I'm just talking about the possibility. It's mind-blowingly interesting.

Possibilities can be mind-blowing, particularly when you consider they are real. Of course, what one considers possible leads to how mind-blowing it is.

Anyhow, want mind-blowing? Get ahold of Alan Wake, or at least read the spoilers on it. What that goes into is an interesting spin on the creation process. For a videogame, it is a good story-telling process.

- Rich

If you don't take risks and explore theories than you eliminate the opportunity to advance. Point in case, string theory being laughed at but slowly becoming more and more accepted and explored through new discoveries.

I'm buying Alan Wake for my nephew's b-day this week and I'm gonna have him bring his Xbox to my crib for quality family time. If I'm disappointed, I will totally virus bomb you . I want Heavy Rain too but funds aren't cooperating.

There is a bunch of WTF at the end that needs to be understood. I spoke about the game in regards to what it is saying, not the game as a game. I haven't played it, just saw the ending and a LOT of discussion, then it clicked with me, and I had to say WOW to that. It did give a different spin on the nature of evil also, along with the creation process.

I don't want to play this up too much. I am type of person that also finds wisdom in a box of corn flakes.

- Rich

[method]

If by the institution you mean the ARE (Association of Research and Enlightment) it was founded by Cayce's elder son to keep the myth of Edgar alive, and to make cash.
He also predicted that the Chamber would be found by 1997, and nothing happened since. True, there are anomalies near the Sphynx, but those don't prove anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd3S3ZZB ... re=related

I know this isnt going to change your mind but this is what Im talking about.

[JuwannaJeffries]

im not saying I believe aliens started this planet. But with the size of the universe (unknown), it's hard to believe we are the only living things. Look up Steven Hawking's thoughts on extra terrestrial life.

[richardhutnik]

Money, in the end, is just dirt, we use to facilitate the exchange of goods and services, by delaying the need for a good or service the time they get it. Currency is given to people so they can get it later... from someone else who has it. This delay is helpful to get things moving, and getting someone else to demand something from something else, and thus get them busy, adding value.

There is a paradox to money in that, which makes the best money is likely the thing that has as little intrinsic value as possible... outside of maybe being durable (as in coinage, or records of how much money people have). So, you need to have a system that causes people to want to use something with little to no value, that everyone wants, so it does its job.

Now, if money is like this, it is kind of absurd to focus all your attention on getting it. By focusing on what people want and need, and how to do it in a superior manner, that is what matters more. And this is of greater value than just the money side of things. So, I will say, no it isn't all about money. And a society that only focuses on the immediate is not good. It makes society of sick. A person will end up giving up all they are for these things with no intrinsic value, and thus because nothing in the process. And, as it is written, a love of these things of little to no intrinsic value is a cause of all evil. And I will again I go to YouTube for more on this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ8PfXOV1fU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxR2p88_btw[/youtube]

By the way, sometimes the answer isn't to look for a scientific explanation. It may be better to just get some folk solution that works, even if it isn't fully known. In other cases, the problem lies with in you and if you stop focusing on the problem, the problem will go away. Or, if you have a problem of attitude, then you need to change your focus. No amount of science will help that. No amount of science is going to give someone good motivation either. When something is also in the area of arts, you are not going to get it through the application of science. Science tells what is, not what can be... outside of forecasting models, which then dwell in the area of determinism.

- Rich

[j4remi]

wow dude, excellent find! I'll definitely be reading this. Loved this part in particular
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

My own mind is my church, is excellent. I've studied catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism and a handful of others ranging from Eastern philosophies to the religions of our ancestors...collected the principles I felt were most abundant or important...and came up with my own beliefs by adding in modern science and knowledge.Like I said before, Buddhism is easily my favorite, but I don't subscribe to any single institution or any rigid guidelines to finding "God."

Individuals like the Unabomber, and individuals who spawn terrorism in this modern era think they are their own "Church" (and they think it is suitable). These individuals feel a need to end up going against social norms, not fit in, and lead rebellions that cause blood in the streets. They are another form of destruction that ends up driving people who work for a living to require more power for the normal social structure.

I will say, OF COURSE each person is going to think their own mind is excellent. They will think they got it figured out, because it feels nice and tidy. It fits their world in a box. What really ends up leading to growth is the unanswered questions, the wonders of life like quantum physics, and the things like Buddhist koans that strip away your own understanding and force you to start over from the beginning. In the few koans of Buddhism I have run into (I would be up for getting more), I see principles in metaphysics that become revealed. However, all those neat and tidy thoughts only go so far. Doing and results is what counts. And, on that note, I will close with this bit of wisdom from Bruce Campbell:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1OxkFOK18[/youtube]

- Rich

Those guys are crazies...Individuality wasn't the issue...Crazy was. The quote "my mind is my church" is from the writer of Common Sense...I guess you can say that was rebellious and caused blood in a roundabout way too huh? I know plenty of normal, working hard for a living people who venture to explore their own spirituality. They can discover answers within themselves through research and experience...and they're not planning bombings or revolts. They're creating computer programs, helping you with your stocks or at the desk in a pharmacy...There's NOTHING wrong with individuality. Of course, if it is misguided individuality it can become an issue..but don't take a random couple of crazies and make them the norm. The key here is that you can't just guess or ignorantly come up with your own things. You have to seek answers and explore the truth yourself. You mentioned quantum physics and Buddhist koans...hell yes, those should be explored and then you should add your own personal experience and create wisdom. I love seeking the connections in everything...and I also love having my own ideals that aren't dictated to me simply by a book but an integration of research, experience and emotion.

[gavran]

If by the institution you mean the ARE (Association of Research and Enlightment) it was founded by Cayce's elder son to keep the myth of Edgar alive, and to make cash.
He also predicted that the Chamber would be found by 1997, and nothing happened since. True, there are anomalies near the Sphynx, but those don't prove anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd3S3ZZB ... re=related

I know this isnt going to change your mind but this is what Im talking about.

Yeah, I know these, I read The secret chamber from Robert Bauval, it's about this subject (in fact the things I wrote about Cayce were from this book). But this doesn't support Cayce at all, since we don't know what's under the Sphynx. It can be a the Secret Chamber of Atlantis, some tunnels, or something natural. For all we know, there are anomalies, but that's everything, we don't know anything else. Unfortunetally the Egyptian government (and mainly Zahi Hawass) doesn't let anybody explore the anomalies. I suggest you read the book, it's facinating, and is giving you a much better understanding of the subject.

[TheBluest]

The world I believe consist of 70% Christianity. You break down the word Christian it means to be Christlike or in essence follow as closely as possible the teachings of the Christ.

Problem is no one wants to conform to how he lived because quite honestly it's extremely difficult to do, it limits your predominant physical freedoms, one is required to exercise a form of worship as in demonstrate your belief in Christ and his Father, you can't see who you're trying to put faith in, and fearful of the punishment if not done which creates this distance between self and a higher power, we rather govern ourselves and set our own standards(which is comical because we're so limited in so many ways and imperfect), not sure of what the real reward is and definitely too impatient to wait for it, last but not least the Bible is considered just another book no more relevant than reading Dr. Suess Green Eggs and Ham and probably less cherished than say the document U.S. Constitution

What I think would make sense is for society to drop the designation of Christianity to their form of worship whatever it may be and adopt or hey EVOLVE some other designation. Maybe Alternativenanity..... New Age Thinking Milleniumanity, because to continue to use Christ(root word) with your form of worship but want the right to practice whatever your heart desires is a Mockery.