O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::.

[Curryy]

You Knick fans are so smart!

That video is serious. btw. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.

[j4remi]

Why the heck do the same people who go off and think that Jesus is a myth on here, and not real, and tied to Sun worship, are going off thinking that 2012 is going to happen, is real and "bad things man" are coming down? Is it the normal version of metaphysics and spirituality are borning, and there is a need to find other expressions?

This looks like a desire to be contrarian for its own sake.

- Rich

You seem to have a problem with a differing of perspective. Just because people don't hold the same beliefs or thoughts that you do doesn't make them a contrarian.

I have issue with people who are inconsistent because it is convenient to them, or amuses them to be so, in areas that are important. I can understand that people not believe certain things, but then to go out even further on a limb, is what I have an issue with. When you do that, you are merely grasping and what you personally like, rather than be concerned for truth.

Here, watch some Penn and Teller on 2012:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN5sNXxe498[/youtube]

- Rich

Love that show!

http://www.cracked.com/article_17445_6- ... ****.html

[richardhutnik]

Love that show!

http://www.cracked.com/article_17445_6- ... -bull.html

I almost posted that, because I ran into it. I thought Penn and Teller would be better so I went with that. Wow, it is Cracked magazine's website. I didn't realize it at the time.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

I would want nothing more then them all to be wrong believe that.

The interesting question is why people tend to seize on prophecies of doom, and especially far out stuff like the 2012 madness - which as Rich pointed out, really is the successor to the 2000 madness. My background and orientation is that of the human potential movement, so my initial focus tends to be internal rather than external (as in, what leads me or someone else to become fascinated by certain concepts or beliefs, especially once one realizes that people have been fearing the 'end-times' at least as far back as the era of the New Testament!)

I'm not at all opposed to an examination of natural cycles. It's one of the things I do in my own work. My twenty-five years in/around the human potential movements demonstrate to me that these remain extremely relevant indicators of broad potentialities in human civilizations. What I don't get is why the nuttiest, most-extreme, most-fear-base interpretations are the ones that certain people tend to cling to or become obsessed with.

Why do people cling to the most extreme interpretations? Well, the more extreme it is, the more special you feel for believing something that far out of the mainstream is true. You end up going into fantasy mode, and end up wanting to believe the rest. It is an esteem issue. And fear is useful to unite people with diverse views who don't get along. We have had no world war, since nukes have appeared. The nukes act as a bully that demands that nations don't escalate too far. As far as mindset goes, once you lock into that fear angle, your brain gets fixated on it. Also, being abnormal happens to have it stand out more.

Also, that which is fixated upon will grow in the mind.

- Rich

[richardhutnik]

The interesting question is why people tend to seize on prophecies of doom, and especially far out stuff like the 2012 madness - which as Rich pointed out, really is the successor to the 2000 madness.

Ahh, I forgot to comment on this. That interpretation does work, and does fit. It is a secondary meaning I wasn't thinking of. My comment on the calendar was from a technical standpoint. The Mayan calendar hits an end point where it needs to reset, the way the Y2K issue was with the dates. It is an issue with numbers, but doesn't really translate into reality in any way. The Y2K scare was based on certain things that could happen, the way the 2012 might be though. But the Y2K one stood to be more real at the time.

- Rich

[j4remi]

Love that show!

http://www.cracked.com/article_17445_6- ... -bull.html

I almost posted that, because I ran into it. I thought Penn and Teller would be better so I went with that. Wow, it is Cracked magazine's website. I didn't realize it at the time.

- Rich

Cracked's website is actually GREAT...I know it makes zero sense but they've got some great articles on damn near every topic. I check out their history articles and science stuff all the time. A lot of great psychology pieces and historic figure descriptions...they have their biases like most everyone who writes, but they at least use references a lot of the time...and they're hilarious.

[j4remi]

The interesting question is why people tend to seize on prophecies of doom, and especially far out stuff like the 2012 madness - which as Rich pointed out, really is the successor to the 2000 madness.

Ahh, I forgot to comment on this. That interpretation does work, and does fit. It is a secondary meaning I wasn't thinking of. My comment on the calendar was from a technical standpoint. The Mayan calendar hits an end point where it needs to reset, the way the Y2K issue was with the dates. It is an issue with numbers, but doesn't really translate into reality in any way. The Y2K scare was based on certain things that could happen, the way the 2012 might be though. But the Y2K one stood to be more real at the time.

- Rich

Yeah, the Y2K thing was a concrete problem...one specific issue to fear. This 2012 thing has multiple theories being peddled around because in reality, no one knows what's expected...which is pretty dumb when you just toss out mind-numbing theories with no real base evidence behind it. The Mayan Calender is the only "proof" people have.

I think the 2012 movement is less about being special and believing in the extreme though...it's profitable for those writing books and selling the concepts, and they make convincing little stories by taking "evidence" out of context. They package that to a generally fearful people, and I'm not just talking about conspiracy theorists...people in general are just incredibly cynical/worriesome/gullible...and the people run around wrapped up in a make believe that's being sold to them as reality. People would panic over a color scale of threats for years after 9/11...OMG it's orange today! Basically, there's a market for 2012 and it grows with every psuedo-scientist that writes a book, we even have a movie now...lord help us.

[richardhutnik]

I think the 2012 movement is less about being special and believing in the extreme though...it's profitable for those writing books and selling the concepts, and they make convincing little stories by taking "evidence" out of context. They package that to a generally fearful people, and I'm not just talking about conspiracy theorists...people in general are just incredibly cynical/worriesome/gullible...and the people run around wrapped up in a make believe that's being sold to them as reality. People would panic over a color scale of threats for years after 9/11...OMG it's orange today! Basically, there's a market for 2012 and it grows with every psuedo-scientist that writes a book, we even have a movie now...lord help us.

Looking back, it would of been interesting if the terror alert one day was "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs". I swore I remember one day that it was plaid.

- Rich

[duetta]

Gay? Whatever, Dude
By CHARLES M. BLOW

Last week, while many of us were distracted by the oil belching forth from the gulf floor and the president’s ham-handed attempts to demonstrate that he was sufficiently engaged and enraged, Gallup released a stunning, and little noticed, report on Americans’ evolving views of homosexuality. Allow me to enlighten:

1. For the first time, the percentage of Americans who perceive “gay and lesbian relations” as morally acceptable has crossed the 50 percent mark. (You have to love the fact that they still use the word “relations.” So quaint.)

2. Also for the first time, the percentage of men who hold that view is greater than the percentage of women who do.

3. This new alignment is being led by a dramatic change in attitudes among younger men, but older men’s perceptions also have eclipsed older women’s. While women’s views have stayed about the same over the past four years, the percentage of men ages 18 to 49 who perceived these “relations” as morally acceptable rose by 48 percent, and among men over 50, it rose by 26 percent.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/opinion/05blow.html

[Deeeez Knicks]

I posted an article below that I thought was interesting. There is almost certainly life on other planets even if it's just bacteria or microorganisms. The evidence is on our own planet as life survives in deep sea, miles below the artic ice, and now even places without any oxygen. Places where it was previously thought life could not survive. Life just finds a way to adopt to situations.

I believe its almost certain that there's some type of life forms on the moons of Saturn and Jupiter.... Enceladus and Europa

And when you think about it, with the billions and billions of planets and moons, the variety of life forms that may exist there, it would be a stretch to say we are the smartest and most advanced. Especially since there are much older planets then Earth. If they could travel billions of light years to get here is a different story though....

I always liked the movie Contact and a lot of Carl Sagan's work.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1875 ... index.html

Expert Says Life Could Survive On Mars
Posted on: Saturday, 5 June 2010, 06:48 CDT

McGill microbiologist looks at Martian-like environment on Earth and finds evidence of bacteria

Researchers at McGill's department of natural resources, the National Research Council of Canada, the University of Toronto and the SETI Institute have discovered that methane-eating bacteria survive in a highly unique spring located on Axel Heiberg Island in Canada's extreme North. Dr. Lyle Whyte, McGill University microbiologist explains that the Lost Hammer spring supports microbial life, that the spring is similar to possible past or present springs on Mars, and that therefore they too could support life.

The subzero water is so salty that it doesn't freeze despite the cold, and it has no consumable oxygen in it. There are, however, big bubbles of methane that come to the surface, which had provoked the researchers' curiosity as to whether the gas was being produced geologically or biologically and whether anything could survive in this extreme hypersaline subzero environment. "We were surprised that we did not find methanogenic bacteria that produce methane at Lost Hammer," Whyte said, "but we did find other very unique anaerobic organisms – organisms that survive by essentially eating methane and probably breathing sulfate instead of oxygen."

It has been very recently discovered that there is methane and frozen water on Mars. Photos taken by the Mars Orbiter show the formation of new gullies, but no one knows what is forming them. One answer is that there could be that there are springs like Lost Hammer on Mars. "The point of the research is that it doesn't matter where the methane is coming from," Whyte explained. "If you have a situation where you have very cold salty water, it could potentially support a microbial community, even in that extreme harsh environment." While Axel Heiberg is already an inhospitable place, the Lost Hammer spring is even more so. "There are places on Mars where the temperature reaches relatively warm -10 to 0 degrees and perhaps even above 0ºC," Whyte said, "and on Axel Heiberg it gets down to -50, easy. The Lost Hammer spring is the most extreme subzero and salty environment we've found. This site also provides a model of how a methane seep could form in a frozen world like Mars, providing a potential mechanism for the recently discovered Martian methane plumes."

The research was published in the International Society for Microbial Ecology Journal and received logistical support from McGill University's Arctic Research Station and the Canadian Polar Continental Shelf Project. Funding was received from NASA, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, and the Canadian Space Agency. Additional funding for student research was provided by the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, and the Fonds Québécois de la Recherche sur la Nature et les Technologies.

[method]

McGill microbiologist looks at Martian-like environment on Earth and finds evidence of bacteria

Researchers at McGill's department of natural resources, the National Research Council of Canada, the University of Toronto and the SETI Institute have discovered that methane-eating bacteria survive in a highly unique spring located on Axel Heiberg Island in Canada's extreme North. Dr. Lyle Whyte, McGill University microbiologist explains that the Lost Hammer spring supports microbial life, that the spring is similar to possible past or present springs on Mars, and that therefore they too could support life.

There is proof that there was life on Mars.http://www.google.com/images?q=pyramids ... CCQQsAQwAA

Also a meteorite was found frozen in Alaske with microrganism's on it and it was from Mars.http://www.marsnews.com/focus/life/

[Deeeez Knicks]

McGill microbiologist looks at Martian-like environment on Earth and finds evidence of bacteria

Researchers at McGill's department of natural resources, the National Research Council of Canada, the University of Toronto and the SETI Institute have discovered that methane-eating bacteria survive in a highly unique spring located on Axel Heiberg Island in Canada's extreme North. Dr. Lyle Whyte, McGill University microbiologist explains that the Lost Hammer spring supports microbial life, that the spring is similar to possible past or present springs on Mars, and that therefore they too could support life.

There is proof that there was life on Mars.http://www.google.com/images?q=pyramids ... CCQQsAQwAA

Also a meteorite was found frozen in Alaske with microrganism's on it and it was from Mars.

Eh, I don't really believe that those are pyramids or the face. Updated images don't really show any evidence. That one guy Richard Hoglan seems like a fraud just making a living.

I remember that meteorite. Can't remember for sure, but I dont think it was conclusive about the microorganisms or if it was even from mars. And if so was from millions of years ago. Of course it was just evidence of mircorganisms. Not the microorganisms themselves. So its almost impossible to know for sure....

found an article about the meteorite:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SUA12/mars798.php

[method]

found an article about the meteorite:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SUA12/mars798.php

Did you take a peek at the pics?They look like like pyrimids to me.Them objects(pyramids) on Mars are in the same formation as the pyramids are here in Egypt on Earth.

Since that discover in Alaska of microrganisms on the meteorite,its now being accepted by mainstream scientists.

[gavran]

There is proof that there was life on Mars.http://www.google.com/images?q=pyramids ... CCQQsAQwAA

They look like pyramids and the face, but they aren't. That's how our brain is coded, we like to see patterns where there aren't, and associate shapeless things for something we're familiar with. For example here's an Indian with his IPod:


(BTW I hate to sound like a broken record with Bauval and Hancock, but they have a book about the Mars "pyramids" and the face, if you're interested)

[Deeeez Knicks]

found an article about the meteorite:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SUA12/mars798.php

Did you take a peek at the pics?They look like like pyrimids to me.Them objects(pyramids) on Mars are in the same formation as the pyramids are here in Egypt on Earth.

Since that discover in Alaska of microrganisms on the meteorite,its now being accepted by mainstream scientists.

Yeah, I used to listen to Art Bell and he used to have Richard Hoagland on all the time. Was pretty interesting at the time, but am skeptical of it all now. A lot of articles and video's and updated photo's debunk it.

There is no conclusive proof that there is life on mars. I do believe there is/was some type of life, but nothing out there proves it.

[method]

There is proof that there was life on Mars.http://www.google.com/images?q=pyramids ... CCQQsAQwAA

They look like pyramids and the face, but they aren't. That's how our brain is coded, we like to see patterns where there aren't, and associate shapeless things for something we're familiar with. For example here's an Indian with his IPod:


(BTW I hate to sound like a broken record with Bauval and Hancock, but they have a book about the Mars "pyramids" and the face, if you're interested)

Yeah I heard that before and that could explain the face.But I have never seen a mountain in the shape of a triangle.Even so and say there was one by chance but to have another 5 around it.All on Mars in the same spot as the pyramids are on earth.To many coincidences for me.

And yeah thats where I got the info above was from Bauval,but yeah thanks for the heads up.

[Subway Token]

Why are they pyramids and not mountains...?

[method]

Yeah, I used to listen to Art Bell and he used to have Richard Hoagland on all the time. Was pretty interesting at the time, but am skeptical of it all now. A lot of articles and video's and updated photo's debunk it.

There is no conclusive proof that there is life on mars. I do believe there is/was some type of life, but nothing out there proves it.

Yeah there old pics.And NASA where going to update the pictures but they never released them,they made up some lame excuse.Have you seen the updated photos?Is there a link?

[method]

Why are they pyramids and not mountains...?

They look like pyramids to me.Ive never seen a mountain in the shape of perfect triangle.

[Subway Token]

http://www.theedgeofmadness.com/images/ ... untain.jpg

Something like this can look like a pyramid from above.