2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[enetric]

The value is sick, but what exactly are you getting?

Rubio is a huge question mark and could become the next Shaun Livingston.
What does the 4th pick get you?
Either Cousins or Wes Johnson.
We all have enormous concerns with Cousins and Wes Johnson has all the makings of a solid role player.
Now Turner is certainly no given either, but he is the one with the true star potential, the franchise player potential and has the lowest bust potential.
It turns a gift into a bigger risk and it's somewhat quantity for quality, unless Cousins turned into the monster he could be.

I don't love it, I don't hate it...

On what basis is Rubio a Shaun Livingston level prospect and Turner is a cant miss star???? To me this is flavor of the moment thinking. The type of stuff I have said repeatedly...happens at draft time. Suddenly Blake Griffin isnt this potential superstud anymore because no one got to see him play in the NBA. He at least had an injury so OK...lets blame that as a reason to lower his stock in the mind of fans. But Rubio? I found him to be a smug punk ass when I heard him interviewed...but more than enough people think this kid is on that elite prosect level Wall is.

Staying overseas did NOT magically destroy that.

[enetric]

You guys are joking right?

Of course you do this deal, its a steal whether its Rubio + #4 or Rubio + Love. You get 2 players worthy top 5 picks for 1, its a no brainier. Whoever is picked is just as much a questionmark as Rubio.

And why is Philly taking Favors all of the sudden. There is just as much chance (very little) they take Cousins and we still get Favors at #4.

The reason it isnt a no brainer is the same reason we didnt do Beasley for Dooling. You continue to ignore the aspect of cap room and recruiting elite free agents in decision making. That will continue to be priority 1 regadless of whether or not you think it will get us anywhere.

Its a low cost high reward strategy at this point and is exactly what is guiding this rebuilding effort.

I cant see us making any moves that give away cap room. f we can add cap room, AND add talent..sure that is possible. Or, convert into one surperstar and still have the cap space left for one other? Absolutely. Beyond that...adding OK talent just because its MORE than we had yesterday, isnt big picture thinking. Its NY Knicks thinking of the last decade.

[demens]

I'm ignoring it because i consider it a complete joke of a Knick like strategy. You pass on top notch quality talent with so much value for an outside chance at Lebron, that just silly to me.

[enetric]

I'm ignoring it because i consider it a complete joke of a Knick like strategy. You pass on top notch quality talent with so much value for an outside chance at Lebron, that just silly to me.

Because you have it BACKWARDS. Your thinking is Knicks strategy under Zeke. Its get something. You call it top notch...but it isnt. Its just better...but not good enough. Zach, Francis, Marbury, Harrington, Hughes, Curry, and on and on and on.


Knicks current thining was...clear out the cap mess at all costs. Then when they were close enough to smell it...they mortgaged even MORE future just for a SHOT at it. His price for high reward. We didnt follwo them into a free agent strategy. They followed us. But we did it right. They did NOT.


Our strategy unlike theirs...is LOW RISK...high reward. We had to rebuild. Lebron or not. We cleared cap room while getting good young prospects, lost games which as a result got us in the lottery for 3 years. So far we have drafted great with both those picks....and we will have another shot with the third overall pick in this draft.


Since the rebuild began we have...

Finalized a set date for the first major market move by a US sports franchise in decades.
Broke ground on a new arena to support that move.
Sold the team to the richest owner in the sport, who seems to be willing to spend to get better.
Signed a short term deal to play in a better arena than we have been playing in while we wait for everything to come together.
Enter the best free agent class EVER with the second most cap space in the league.

And you cant understand why in a cap driven league with salary matching for trades where elite all time superstars are what wins championships on every team of the last 25 years other than the Detroit Pistons...WHY so many people are against simply wasting the cap space on a Beasley or a Kevin Love?

Your way...is Isiah Thomas. Just add a piece and ignore the cap hits. Ignore how you will get better pieces later. Ignore your draft picks or how it will affect your draft opportunities.

Bascially after all we have done the last 3 years to set this table to give oursevles a chance...your goal is to give it away and create a 37-45 win team that wont beat anyone in the playoffs.

And then what? So you have a 13-20 pick in the draft and get marginally better with no cap room.

It seems to me that is a real lack of cap understanding. Of realizing that this is a superstars league like no other in US sports. Why do that???


The table is set. Go after the center piece. Worst case scenario...you dont get him you dont waste the cap room on less deserving pieces you stay lousy a bit longer...you FIND the next big thing in a future draft with your high pick.

See the only thing we can actually do wrong here...is use up cap space on the WRONG guys. That is how the NBA works in this era. You have to go shopping and relize that everything is a % of your cap and that you need stars to win. Taking oursevles out of the running for trully great players to add mediocrity? I just cannot understand how after reading this that still seems logical to you.

[demens]

What cap hits? Kevin Love and Beasley are on rookie deals for Gods sake, we're talking pennies for talent here. And this strategy is not LOW risk at all, if we strike out with big free agents and the odds are clearly not in our favor and risk is that we already LOST that talent we could have added.

If i was talking about doing things like Isiah i'd be talking about getting someone like Arenas or Brand. What we are doing is exactly what the Knicks are doing. They gave up assets for cap, to hope for something big to happen. We are turning down assets so we can maintain our cap and hope for something big to happen. How is 1 different from the other. Turning down talent is the same thing as giving it away like the Knicks.

[Jersey Generals]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the cap hit if it gets talent, because its all going to be through a sign and trade anyway. If we have to package a player to outbid for Lebron and Bosh, then we could easily include Love/Beasley in the deal and still have the cap room we had before.

[SpeedyG]

Both Enetric and Demens have good points, but the thing is, there's a difference in how each of you perceive value. Personally, I am in the same school of thought as Enetric. You rebuild and rebuild until you find that one star, and when you find that star, THEN you do everything in your power to build around that star. At this point, the Nets don't have that star. And here's where the value comes in...

To Demens, Michael Beasley is "value", so is Kevin Love. To Enetric, Blake Griffin is "value". But many will disagree with both. Frankly, I like that Beasley competes on the court. Problem is, I just don't see the BBIQ there, and I don't see him maturing to that player. So forget about the guy that was drafted #2. Forget about the "former college star". People say it all the time, be it football or basketball: the draft is not an exact science. If it was, Bowie would not have been drafted ahead of Jordan. Michael Olowakandi wouldn't have gone #1, same with Kwame Brown. Glen Robinson would not have gone ahead of Kidd AND Grant Hill. What am I getting at?

The draft is for projecting how a talent will translate in the NBA. Free-Agency (and in most cases, player trades) is about seeing how their talent already TRANSLATED into the NBA. For the most part, when you sign someone or trade for someone, you have enough game film, information from other coaches and GM, scouts on what kind of player that player is.

In other words, you should already have a good idea of what his TRUE value is.

And this ties in back to what Enetric is saying...giving up cap space for Beasley...only looks good on the surface. One, because Beasley's stock is at an all-time low...and for good reason. Number two, it takes us off the largest Free-Agent bonanza since Shaquille O'Neal (though I guess you can count the McGrady/Hill/Duncan free-agency class also).

Btw as for the comment of failing to acquire talent is the same as giving away talent? Not true at all. You are always giving away something, be it real money or cap space.

Do you think Orlando would have rather not made the deal for Vince Carter? They acquired talent, right? And all they gave up was Lee. Or was it? Because now they are tied to VC's contract for more money and for far longer than they would have if they kept Lee.

Do you think Cleveland would have rather not made the deal for Antawn Jamison? They acquired talent, right? And they basically got it for free! The guy they traded, a key guy off the bench for them, they basically got back. Or did they? Because now they are tied to Jamison's contract, to Mo Williams' contract, to Varejao's contract....and oh by the way, their star franchise player, now knowing what little asset his team has after tying those money to guys who aren't adequate help for him to win a championship, with no clear young guys, prospects, or picks to provide reinforcement...is now looking to leave.

True, hindsight is 20/20. But see, even though Cleveland and Orlando failed in those acquisitions, in the end, no one is really going to fault them. Because they had to try. They have that star player. And when you have that star player...you have to try, anything and everything in your power to surround him with a championship caliber roster.

But when you're winning 12 games, you don't have that franchise player, and your best player is still a young center, your second best player is a scoring PG that is often injured because of his style of play, and your third best player is a talented and versatile SF who at the age of 24 (or 23, can't remember how old he is) was still immature that he pissed away 75% of his rookie year due to being benched...then well, you don't have to take unnecessary risks.

You just continue to build your team, pick up assets, and hope that one of those turn out to be the franchise star that you can build around. And then, THEN you do everything in your power to acquire talent to win the championship. And if it fails, you hope the star player comes back to you, and you scrap the rest of that roster and start re-tooling around that star player again.

[demens]

So a few things.

How many of those "stars" are really in the NBA? Most teams dont have one yet life goes on, they manage to exist somehow. Now out of the teams that do have them, how were these guys acquired? Well, mostly thought the draft, were they not. A small minority was acquired through trades and the least likely method to get a superstar like that is via Free Agency. Cap Space is the most overrated value in the NBA. There have been plenty of teams with plenty of cap that go NOTHING.

I can't even begin to explain the silliness of this 2 max idea. No offense to anyone that ha bought into it, but i think it is the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) idea i have heard in off season. The summits, back door deals about teaming up, give me a break, it'll never happen. never! The team that can possible to 2 max is the Heat, but its only technically 2 max because the 1st max, Wade is already there.

So the whole strategy for the summer that you all seem to like, is lunacy imo. And what makes it even worst is that its totally interfering with us improving the team the right way.

[SpeedyG]

So a few things.

How many of those "stars" are really in the NBA?

Let's see...Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dwight, Duncan (though he's getting old, in his prime he was absolutely that), Dirk, Paul, and there's certainly a few others that I'm not going to list them all.

Most teams dont have one yet life goes on, they manage to exist somehow.

How has life been for the Nets after they traded Dr. J? How was life for the Magic after prime O'Neal? You're not in Orlando, but I tell you had it not been for the luck of getting Dwight, Orlando would not have a franchise right now. That city was THIS close to losing its franchise. If Lebron James leaves Cleveland, ask them a few years later how "life goes on" without that true star.

Now out of the teams that do have them, how were these guys acquired? Well, mostly thought the draft, were they not. A small minority was acquired through trades and the least likely method to get a superstar like that is via Free Agency. Cap Space is the most overrated value in the NBA. There have been plenty of teams with plenty of cap that go NOTHING.

While it's true that most stars are acquired through the draft and few in Free-Agency (only noticeable ones being in recent memory were Shaq, Hill, McGrady, the problem isn't with the cap space. The problem is with the idiotic way teams who have the cap space look at it and spend their money so unwisely...which is EXACTLY what you want Thorn and the Nets to do.

Tell me, if you're a Pistons fan, are you glad they spent the money on Villanueva and Gordon? The acquired talent right? They got better right? But in doing so, they wasted precious cap space on two players that only made their team marginally better...just for the sake of getting better and using their cap space.

I can't even begin to explain the silliness of this 2 max idea. No offense to anyone that ha bought into it, but i think it is the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) idea i have heard in off season. The summits, back door deals about teaming up, give me a break, it'll never happen. never! The team that can possible to 2 max is the Heat, but its only technically 2 max because the 1st max, Wade is already there.

Wait, you seriously don't believe this do you? What's silly is to think that players, who in all likely hood will be making max or near max money, won't discuss all of their options in the same year they become free-agents.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Just look at how players flocked to LA during Shaq's prime years. Look at how players flocked to Boston with their trio there. It just has never happened that this many players, of this caliber, are in the market at the same time. Usually, you get one or two max players in the market, then a bunch of MLE type guys or lower. That's why this has never been talked about until now.

But to think that these guys don't see the possibility that is right in their hands, much less discuss those possibilities? Absolutely ridiculous!

So the whole strategy for the summer that you all seem to like, is lunacy imo. And what makes it even worst is that its totally interfering with us improving the team the right way.

So basically you could have pretty much skipped all that mess earlier and just went right straight to it. Because, faulty logic or not, that's all you care about: improvement right away. Never mind that that improvement will only take us to MAYBE one more round in the playoffs. Never mind that that improvement won't be good enough to accomplish what many of us, and what the new owner wants: a championship.

Look, this whole 2010 free-agency, it's a once-in-a-lifetime deal. It will probably be a long while before it happens again, especially with the uncertainty that a new CBA can/will bring. It would be foolish not to take a stab at it just so you can say that you signed Joe Johnson and David Lee and made it to the second round of the NBA playoffs.

[enetric]

What cap hits? Kevin Love and Beasley are on rookie deals for Gods sake, we're talking pennies for talent here. And this strategy is not LOW risk at all, if we strike out with big free agents and the odds are clearly not in our favor and risk is that we already LOST that talent we could have added.

If i was talking about doing things like Isiah i'd be talking about getting someone like Arenas or Brand. What we are doing is exactly what the Knicks are doing. They gave up assets for cap, to hope for something big to happen. We are turning down assets so we can maintain our cap and hope for something big to happen. How is 1 different from the other. Turning down talent is the same thing as giving it away like the Knicks.

The fact that they are on rook deals has absolutely no bearing. The cap hit it to CAP SPACE. You want to give up cap space BEFORE we know if we can land someone or not. That is impatient thinking. It is pointless. You want to use cap space to drive us to a middle of the pack team which is WORSE than being a bottom feeder in the NBA. Its a jail sentence of mediocrity.

The fact is, there will be other Love's or Beasley's should we miss out on the top tier guys. But first you go after the top tier guys and THEN you execute plan B. Why you feel this sense of urgency to just go plan B when its a recipe for medicority...a NO STAR team makes absolutely no sense if you know your NBA history. If you get that its a stars league.

Maybe the issue for you is that you have no interest in competing for championships. Perhaps you would prefer 40 wins and no shot at a championship than have to endure 12 wins and taking a shot at it?

if so...that is your right. But for me that is nonsense. I can be patient to get to the top level. And the top level is not through Beasley or Love! Its through Lebron. And if Lebron doesn't want to come? It will be through some HS kid I haven't heard of yet who will be a future top 3 pick in the next few drafts when you seem intent on taking us to a 15-20 pick. My downside is we stay lousy and draft build. Your downside is a jail sentence of being stuck in the middle. And best part is...you seem intent on that being a GOOD IDEA.

As for the Knicks... We added assets while creating cap room. Knicks gave up assets to get the cap room. You don't see the difference in that?

We will have something like 9 rook contract and Devin Harris after this draft with all our future picks in tact, along with GSW's future #1.

Knicks will have 3 rook contracts, plus Curry, no 1st rounder in this draft, none in 2012, and a low one in 2011. That is the same thing to you? They PAID someone to take Jeffries off their hand and paid a Joe Smith like tax to get it done. Our returning players are our TOP talents. Lee, Harrington, Nate, Jeffries, Hughes, Hill, GONE. Only Gallo and Chandler remain...two OTHER SF's from their top 8 talents in this cap purge. Tell me, who did we give away you felt like..wow how can we do that? Still seems like the same thing to you?

First you stock the pond with young talent, easy to develop easy to trade. Then you spend on the centerpiece then you tweak with the middle guys through trade and MLE signings.

You want to spend on anything better than what we have...compete at the highest level be damned. You literally want to get in the way of the opportunity to build a contender. I mean lets also realize that even if we DO NOT get Lebron...the cap we have with a bunch of PF's ALL better than Beasley and Love are out there. So no matter how you slice it...it makes no sense what you are annoyed about.

[enetric]

What cap hits? Kevin Love and Beasley are on rookie deals for Gods sake, we're talking pennies for talent here. And this strategy is not LOW risk at all, if we strike out with big free agents and the odds are clearly not in our favor and risk is that we already LOST that talent we could have added.

If i was talking about doing things like Isiah i'd be talking about getting someone like Arenas or Brand. What we are doing is exactly what the Knicks are doing. They gave up assets for cap, to hope for something big to happen. We are turning down assets so we can maintain our cap and hope for something big to happen. How is 1 different from the other. Turning down talent is the same thing as giving it away like the Knicks.

The fact that they are on rook deals has absolutely no bearing. The cap hit it to CAP SPACE. You want to give up cap space BEFORE we know if we can land someone or not. That is impatient thinking. It is pointless. You want to use cap space to drive us to a middle of the pack team which is WORSE than being a bottom feeder in the NBA. Its a jail sentence of mediocrity.

The fact is, there will be other Love's or Beasley's should we miss out on the top tier guys. But first you go after the top tier guys and THEN you execute plan B. Why you feel this sense of urgency to just go plan B when its a recipe for medicority...a NO STAR team makes absolutely no sense if you know your NBA history. If you get that its a stars league.

Maybe the issue for you is that you have no interest in competing for championships. Perhaps you would prefer 40 wins and no shot at a championship than have to endure 12 wins and taking a shot at it?

if so...that is your right. But for me that is nonsense. I can be patient to get to the top level. And the top level is not through Beasley or Love! Its through Lebron. And if Lebron doesn't want to come? It will be through some HS kid I haven't heard of yet who will be a future top 3 pick in the next few drafts when you seem intent on taking us to a 15-20 pick. My downside is we stay lousy and draft build. Your downside is a jail sentence of being stuck in the middle. And best part is...you seem intent on that being a GOOD IDEA.

As for the Knicks... We added assets while creating cap room. Knicks gave up assets to get the cap room. You don't see the difference in that?

We will have something like 9 rook contract and Devin Harris after this draft with all our future picks in tact, along with GSW's future #1.

Knicks will have 3 rook contracts, plus Curry, no 1st rounder in this draft, none in 2012, and a low one in 2011. That is the same thing to you? They PAID someone to take Jeffries off their hand and paid a Joe Smith like tax to get it done. Our returning players are our TOP talents. Lee, Harrington, Nate, Jeffries, Hughes, Hill, GONE. Only Gallo and Chandler remain...two OTHER SF's from their top 8 talents in this cap purge. Tell me, who did we give away you felt like..wow how can we do that? Still seems like the same thing to you?

First you stock the pond with young talent, easy to develop easy to trade. Then you spend on the centerpiece then you tweak with the middle guys through trade and MLE signings.

You want to spend on anything better than what we have...compete at the highest level be damned. You literally want to get in the way of the opportunity to build a contender. I mean lets also realize that even if we DO NOT get Lebron...the cap we have with a bunch of PF's ALL better than Beasley and Love are out there. So no matter how you slice it...it makes no sense what you are annoyed about.

[enetric]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the cap hit if it gets talent, because its all going to be through a sign and trade anyway. If we have to package a player to outbid for Lebron and Bosh, then we could easily include Love/Beasley in the deal and still have the cap room we had before.

Your first clue that this is wrong is the fact that half the league is lining up with cap room. The differnce between us and say the Knicks is...if they strike out they can't fix their team with the lottery picks of the next could of years since those belong to Houston. Or, by trading their prospects for better players on bigger contracts someone is looking to shed...because they have so few prospects left.

We have everything in order. Plan A we go after the top guys. Plan B if plan A fails, draft build the next couple of years...and we can always add talent by trade because we have ASSETS. Why give away cap space now?
Sure, I would S&T for ONE of the superstars....but no one is going to be able to do that for two in the entire league. So we need the cap room for one MAX...we have it...we need to be able to either create room for a second...or S&T to get it done. We are well situated to do either. Why make a move now that makes it harder for us to do plan A?

[demens]

The problem is with the idiotic way teams who have the cap space look at it and spend their money so unwisely...which is EXACTLY what you want Thorn and the Nets to do.

Tell me, if you're a Pistons fan, are you glad they spent the money on Villanueva and Gordon? The acquired talent right? They got better right?

Explain to me how that has anything to do with what i'm saying. Pistons overpaid for mediocre talent because they had the cap and it was going to be wasted. The equivalent to this would be us chasing after David Lee and Rudy Gay, although at the end of the day those 2 are probably way more talented that is not what i'm proposing at all. I'm proposing trading for talent, and you can call it mediocre if you wish that is either on rookie deals (like Love, Beasley, Randolph) or expires within a year (like Beasley, AK). That is the complete opposite of what the Pistons did, in fact 1 of the reasons i like this particular strategy is so when the pipe dream of Lebron dies, we wont be in desperation mode and give out bad deals to guys that dont deserve them just like the Pistons. Maybe i wasn't explaining right.

Not only that, none of my deals would actually prevent us from chasing Lebron. Only exception being AK who i am more then willing to call option B, C or whatever after we know what the deal is with Lebron. It does prevent us from living in this 2 max fantasy, a fantasy not only because it wont happen, but because at the moment, it actually CAN'T happen unless we make more moves.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Just look at how players flocked to LA during Shaq's prime years. Look at how players flocked to Boston with their trio there. It just has never happened that this many players, of this caliber, are in the market at the same time.

I think i have history on my side. Your excuse it that it never happened because there never was this many high caliber players, my reply is that is never happened period. So until it does, its a delusion created by the media. What players have flocked to LA, Payton and Malone? Max players? Who failed miserably btw. What about Boston? Rasheed? It just does not happen.

So basically you could have pretty much skipped all that mess earlier and just went right straight to it. Because, faulty logic or not, that's all you care about: improvement right away. Never mind that that improvement will only take us to MAYBE one more round in the playoffs. Never mind that that improvement won't be good enough to accomplish what many of us, and what the new owner wants: a championship.

Ok, so answer this for me. What moves do you see us making in the summer that make us a championship team and dont involve Lebron? I see NONE, absolutely no chance in hell, zero. There is 1 move and 1 move only, and it makes no difference whether there is a 2nd max or a 3rd max or no max. The deals that i'm proposing leave us open to the possibility of this one move happening. If it doesn't happen, we're left with a team stacked with talent and ready to complete for a play-off spot. It also leaves us with plenty of expiring deals and cap space for next season so we can spin this wheel again and try for Melo this time. Now if we're aiming for a 2nd max to be a reason to lure Lebron here in the 1st place, well then i think you all know how i feel about that. If it fails, it leaves us with 6 guys under contract and scrambling to fill the roster.

[demens]

The fact is, there will be other Love's or Beasley's should we miss out on the top tier guys. But first you go after the top tier guys and THEN you execute plan B. Why you feel this sense of urgency to just go plan B when its a recipe for medicority...a NO STAR team makes absolutely no sense if you know your NBA history. If you get that its a stars league.

I'm not so sure there will be other Loves and Beasleys. And you keep repeating that we go after top tier guys (or GUY really) 1st which i'm totally in agreement with. We are still more then capable of going after that top tier guy even if we make moves and hit our cap space. The disagreement we have is that you either think that we MUST get 2 Max or its no Max at all, or, i guess there is no or, thats gotta be it. And we are not even a position to afford that right now.

I can be patient to get to the top level. And the top level is not through Beasley or Love! Its through Lebron. And if Lebron doesn't want to come? It will be through some HS kid I haven't heard of yet who will be a future top 3 pick in the next few drafts when you seem intent on taking us to a 15-20 pick. My downside is we stay lousy and draft build. Your downside is a jail sentence of being stuck in the middle. And best part is...you seem intent on that being a GOOD IDEA.

I agree that your downside is to stay lousy and i want no part of it. But you are completely wrong about my downside. We have 3 years to build this team. Thats 3 years of a boatload of 1st round picks, 2 years of cap. If we dont make it happen now it wont happen ever (any time soon). We got this year to try our luck in FA and for the last time, NONE of my proposed moves hurt our chances in any way of doing so, and then we got another chance next summer. After that, Lopez and our other young peaces will need to be resigned and you can forget about your precious cap space for a LONG time. If we do strike out both years, hopefully we can acquire enough talent through the draft and through trades like Beasley/Love/Randolph/AK that would enable us to A) actually stay competitive and B) have the peaces to be a big player on the trade market. Maybe if a big free agent wont come here on his own free will....Like no big free agent EVER HAS (yes, like i said, history is on my side) then we can trade for one. How exactly did being lousy and getting Wall work out for us btw?

[enetric]

The fact is, there will be other Love's or Beasley's should we miss out on the top tier guys. But first you go after the top tier guys and THEN you execute plan B. Why you feel this sense of urgency to just go plan B when its a recipe for medicority...a NO STAR team makes absolutely no sense if you know your NBA history. If you get that its a stars league.

I'm not so sure there will be other Loves and Beasleys. And you keep repeating that we go after top tier guys (or GUY really) 1st which i'm totally in agreement with. We are still more then capable of going after that top tier guy even if we make moves and hit our cap space. The disagreement we have is that you either think that we MUST get 2 Max or its no Max at all, or, i guess there is no or, thats gotta be it. And we are not even a position to afford that right now.

I can be patient to get to the top level. And the top level is not through Beasley or Love! Its through Lebron. And if Lebron doesn't want to come? It will be through some HS kid I haven't heard of yet who will be a future top 3 pick in the next few drafts when you seem intent on taking us to a 15-20 pick. My downside is we stay lousy and draft build. Your downside is a jail sentence of being stuck in the middle. And best part is...you seem intent on that being a GOOD IDEA.

I agree that your downside is to stay lousy and i want no part of it. But you are completely wrong about my downside. We have 3 years to build this team. Thats 3 years of a boatload of 1st round picks, 2 years of cap. If we dont make it happen now it wont happen ever (any time soon). We got this year to try our luck in FA and for the last time, NONE of my proposed moves hurt our chances in any way of doing so, and then we got another chance next summer. After that, Lopez and our other young peaces will need to be resigned and you can forget about your precious cap space for a LONG time. If we do strike out both years, hopefully we can acquire enough talent through the draft and through trades like Beasley/Love/Randolph/AK that would enable us to A) actually stay competitive and B) have the peaces to be a big player on the trade market. Maybe if a big free agent wont come here on his own free will....Like no big free agent EVER HAS (yes, like i said, history is on my side) then we can trade for one. How exactly did being lousy and getting Wall work out for us btw?

Your goal in say the Beasly move...is to give away an extra 4 mil in cap space. That would leave us with cap space to sign one Max and one guy at around 5mil. Or create csome extra room to get another gu at around 8-9 mil moving out a Humphries or a Yi and keep Devin.

My way...we have better options. Why cant we move out one or both of those guys and get to 13 mil on top of the max contract offer and go after a Lee if a Bosh wont take a max offer? As in..he wont do it if its not S&T? Your way is to ensure we cant get to a cap level that gets anywhere close to this caliber of player. And are you talking about Kirilenko? A guy I used to love before he got to the horrid part of his contract and forgot how to play basketball? Is that the Ak you want????
And there are ALWAYS other guys availabel if you are willing to give up cap space, or cap friendly contracts. EVERY SINGLE season lopsided trades are made for that exact reason. Every year without fail.

I have your downside NAILED to a tee. You are deliberately building a medcore team with no shot at high draft pciks, no cap space to sing big time players, no flexibility to do anything but wait for reality to set in that we built a team poorly. That we went out and added pieces in the wrong order.

Its like this. You build a house first you lay the foundation, get some sturrdy beams in place and then you put up your roof. We laid the foundation and we are ready for the roof. We have X to spedn on it right now. But your goal is to say screw that! Lets go buy a couch...not even a great couch...just a couch...a 32" TV and lets ba happy with that. Isnt this great? Look at me on my decent couch and my small TV....isjnt it great? Sure. Then it rains. And you have CRAP. Good luck selling you stuff to get the roof. Not happening. Good luck saving until you can fford the roof next time. Not happeing because your poor spending just guaranteed you wont ever be able to get the roof.

My way? We get the roof I am looking for...and we cna move out of the 12 win shed we are in and move into a Mansion for a while. Once we have the roof...it will be incredible how many couches and Tv's will take our MLE to come here.

As for that no big free agent has ever come here thing. I am glad you said that. Because that is what I have been saying for 3 years in anticiaption of NY. Its the very reason we are viable now like we CANT be in NJ. New arena, new owner, new location. Mineapolis Lakers becoming the Los Angeles Lakers...think it mattered? its been along time since a team has made a move like this in professional sports.

As for landing Wall...how do you know its Favors who wont turn out to be the top guy? Here is what I know. Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Durant, Howard, Melo...and the majority of the top franchise talent in this league came from the top of the draft. Sure you can get lucky...but your odds are significantly higher in the top of the dfraft. Your goal is to deliberately drive us to a 15-20 pick behind a medicore team who has spent all its cap room.

Like Speedy said. You can always turn a Lee into a Vince Carter. Or a Z into a Jamison. But you do that when you have the studs in place. No one trades their studs for a package unless they are close to 30 or they are scandal ridden or damaged goods.

My goal is not to settle on a Villa if a I cant have a Lebron, Wade, Bosh or Amare. I would rathr get no one and stay lousy and get the high picks and take my chances that way.

Why dont you just admit that you haver no interest in building a contender. That you are not interested in it. That medicore is better than lousy and you are willing to sacrifice any shot at contending not to be lousy. That is what you want. You cant have both in the NBA. Its a stars league. This isnt baseball or football. Spend your money wisely or you are screwed for years to come. Excuse me...not screwed...medicore.

[demens]

My way...we have better options. Why cant we move out one or both of those guys and get to 13 mil on top of the max contract offer and go after a Lee if a Bosh wont take a max offer? As in..he wont do it if its not S&T? Your way is to ensure we cant get to a cap level that gets anywhere close to this caliber of player. And are you talking about Kirilenko? A guy I used to love before he got to the horrid part of his contract and forgot how to play basketball? Is that the Ak you want????
And there are ALWAYS other guys availabel if you are willing to give up cap space, or cap friendly contracts. EVERY SINGLE season lopsided trades are made for that exact reason. Every year without fail.

My way is to laugh off the idea of 2 max. But since you're talking hypothetical trades here then why is my idea ensuring that it'll be impossible? Currently, its impossible, if we added Beasley it still impossible. If we are moving Yi or Humphries then i dont see how we wouldn't be capable of moving Beasley or Love who are miles and miles more valuable then the other 2.

You're saying that guys will be available if we're willing to give up cap friendly deals...ehh, i'm talking about acquiring guy with cap friendly deals, not trading them away.

I have your downside NAILED to a tee. You are deliberately building a medcore team with no shot at high draft pciks, no cap space to sing big time players, no flexibility to do anything but wait for reality to set in that we built a team poorly.

OMG, How, how can you possibly come to that conclusions, i'm not even gonna bother replying in how many ways that just WRONG, WRONG and WRONG until you can explain how in the world you can think that.

As for landing Wall...how do you know its Favors who wont turn out to be the top guy?

I hope he does. But you'd rather we ending up top 3 until we strike gold. I say once is enough and we already used up our once, so we both better hope he does.

Why dont you just admit that you haver no interest in building a contender.

Why because i dont want to go after Lebron or Melo. Ohh wait, yeah i do. I dont want to live and die by the delusion of getting 2 max free agents this year or face being the worst team in the league again, you did say top 3 picks right.

[vincecarter4pres]

I have your downside NAILED to a tee. You are deliberately building a medcore team with no shot at high draft pciks, no cap space to sing big time players, no flexibility to do anything but wait for reality to set in that we built a team poorly.

OMG, How, how can you possibly come to that conclusions, i'm not even gonna bother replying in how many ways that just WRONG, WRONG and WRONG until you can explain how in the world you can think that.

How is E wrong, when you wrote the following?

If it doesn't happen, we're left with a team stacked with talent and ready to complete for a play-off spot.

A stacked team ready to compete for a playoff spot, yet that doesn't have the upside to ever be better then a 2nd round exit at absolute best if everyone pans out, yet isn't bad enough to get a top lotto pick, where as you correctly said early, is where most franchise talent comes from...

[and1GS]

Golden State outgoing:
6xth overall pick
Anthony Randolph

Golden State incoming:
4th overall pick
Yi Jianlian

OMG SIGN ME UP. What a steal!!!

[Jersey Generals]

Yes, we have the cap space for one max...and by taking on Love or Beasley, that won't tap into it. What it does do, however, is give the Nets a better chance to sign and trade for the other max player. I think we all have to do the math on this.

[vincecarter4pres]

Golden State outgoing:
6xth overall pick
Anthony Randolph

Golden State incoming:
4th overall pick
Yi Jianlian

OMG SIGN ME UP. What a steal!!!

Is this serious or sarcasm?