LeBron Free Agency 2010

[twix2500]

Rumors that Miami offered Beasley for essentially nothing (Dooling's contract with a team option for 2010-2011) makes me think the Heat know something or think they know something. It makes no sense for them to give Beasley away unless they think they have a real chance to resign Wade and land James + Bosh/Amare/Nowitzki. Moving Beasley's salary off the books would allow them to resign Wade and offer two max or near max contracts if they released everyone else not under contract. I would be concerned.

Dont be alarm, that was an extremely false rumor.

[twix2500]

The Cavs need to pick up the pace on the change of coach and management. I think Lebron has to question this unknown management and if they can get it done. So coaches/management needs to be in place so they can have time to convince Lebron that this staff will be able to get things done. And the best way to do so is to get a sign and trade done from day one for Amare or Bosh. I think the most dangerous team that the Cavs have to compete against in a sign and trade deal is Portland. Portland is the biggest player in the league to get a sign and trade deal done for one of the marquee free agents. The Cavs have a lot of work ahead of them, and kind of late in the game as Chicago and New Orleans have their coaches in place.

[gflem]

The management team is in place. Danny left and Chris Grant was promoted. All of the assistant coaches are still here as is Lance Blanks who apparently has a very good rapport with the players including Lebron. Chris Jent, Lebron's shooting coach is being considered for the coaching postiton as well. So, the only position in flux is the headcoach position.
With the uncertainty of whether or not Lebron re-signs here it will be difficult to hire a coach. Would you want to take this position without knowing what Lebron is going to do, if you were the most qualified person for the job?
The difference is coaching a rebuilding team if the Cavs go in that direction if Lebron leaves, or a middling team that finishes 6-8 if the Cavs keep most of the players they have now and Lebron leaves, or a title contender if Lebron stays. The difference is huge if you are an older established coach, which is what we should be looking for.

[heathmalc]

No, you are wrong.

No, you are wrong. A contract can only be extended to a max of 5 yrs, that "option year" is part of the contract. Because if he doesn't opt in, the contract is off and can't be extended anyway. So stop trying to claim you know anything about that.

You are wrong. Kobe Bryant and the Lakers just did the exact same thing. Kobe didn't accept his option year...it was terminated, and he signed an extension (3yrs) that begins next season.

You "think" you know what you're talking about, but like a lot of people, you base everything off of the NBA CBA FAQ site, as opposed to downloading the actual CBA and reading the specifics of the agreement.

However, even the FAQ states that an option season can be mutually terminated.

As for you saying that he "Must" take the option year... that is false. If it was an [E]arly [T]ermination [O]ption, then he would. However a team option or a player option is NOT part of the original contract until it is signed.

[heathmalc]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1016160

It was discussed here. .

By the way... read the dang link you provided, and quit acting like you actually understand what you are talking about!

The three years of Amare's extension would include this year and next, thus five in total, even though this one is basically already over. And extensions are limited to five seasons.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q51

Amare's situation is like Dirk's... he has an ETO, NOT a player option! ETO's are an option to terminate the contract early (obviously). However, if he is to sign an extension, then he obviously cannot terminate the contract early, because he is trying to extend the contract...thus the ETO year is no longer an option, as it is part of the contract that is extended.

LeBron has a player option; not an ETO! A player or team option is NOT part of the original contract unless/until it is invoked/signed by the party with the option. The PO/TO does NOT have to be part of an extension...as it is NOT part of the original contract!

Here is a link to your precious CBA FAQ, where it clearly states exactly what I am saying:

A contract with a player option can be extended when the option is not exercised. A contract with an ETO may not be extended if the ETO is exercised.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q1

The above quote is found on FAQ #50; under "The differences between an ETO and an Option."

[mysticbb]

You are wrong. Kobe Bryant and the Lakers just did the exact same thing. Kobe didn't accept his option year...it was terminated, and he signed an extension (3yrs) that begins next season.

Lol, you are comparing a player with a contract (Bryant actually HAS a contract with the Lakers) with a player who has NO contract. James doesn't have a contract to extend, if he isn't using his option until June the 30th. If he uses that option, it is OBVIOUSLY that he has a contract for next season and that year will count to the 5 years. The max extension James can sign is a 4 yr extension in case he uses his option. THERE ARE NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES FOR AN EXTENSION. A non-existing contract CAN'T be extended!

Really, you have no clue. That also makes your next post completely useless.

[twix2500]

The management team is in place. Danny left and Chris Grant was promoted. All of the assistant coaches are still here as is Lance Blanks who apparently has a very good rapport with the players including Lebron. Chris Jent, Lebron's shooting coach is being considered for the coaching postiton as well. So, the only position in flux is the headcoach position.
With the uncertainty of whether or not Lebron re-signs here it will be difficult to hire a coach. Would you want to take this position without knowing what Lebron is going to do, if you were the most qualified person for the job?
The difference is coaching a rebuilding team if the Cavs go in that direction if Lebron leaves, or a middling team that finishes 6-8 if the Cavs keep most of the players they have now and Lebron leaves, or a title contender if Lebron stays. The difference is huge if you are an older established coach, which is what we should be looking for.

Never said it will be easy, and if the GM wants to keep all the assistants than that also makes it difficult to find a coach. Most coaches want their own coaching staff.

[gflem]

Agreed. But, if keeping a few assistants means keeping Lebron thats a no brainer. My take on what you posted was that you thought the front office was in near shambles, and I think that at the least they are trying to make it look as seemless as possible. It may not be that way, but the way the story is being told here is that this is a natural progression for Chris Grant.
They are showing, publicly at least, that Ferry leaving was mutual, and that there are no rifts or hard feelings. I am not sure I buy that totally, but for now everyone involved is riding that train, making this rather big and surprising resignation look as if it isnt really a big deal.
As for hiring a new coach, I have no clue as to what they are thinking, and if they are going to make big moves regardless of the Lebron decision, then any coach not desperate for a position would be crazy to accept the position without knowing how the roster is going to look in a month.

[twix2500]

never said it was in shambles, but in terms of a players point of view, having faith in the coaching staff and management is vital in the decision of wanting to play there. Its seems to be very bad timing when your trying to get the best player in league to resign, and his biggest concern/question is if they can get it done. The cavs should be giving lebron little question about the organization as possible. Do you really think lebron will make his decision to return before the coaching is set? When you have Chicago, New York and Miami staff set and at work.

[gflem]

That's why I said they are trying to keep it low key, and it helps that Grant seems to be well respected around the league. In fact he turned down the ATL GM job last year to stay, so that part of the FO seems to be in good hands. A big change like that done with little turmoil should show that the organization is very solid.
And the coaching thing is a catch 22, in that what coach will come here not knowing what Lebron will do, and why does Lebron commit without knowing who the coach is? Btw, I didnt quote you saying the FO is in shambles, but rather I thought you might have been implying something along those lines. I was just pointing out that at this point its been very calm and smooth as far as the actual change of personnel.
The fact is around these parts many of us Cavs fans are a bit on edge in regards to opinions about our organization and how it will affect "The Decision" so to speak, when in reality Gilbert and the Cavs organization has done everything as well as could be expected in order to keep Lebron here.
Brown going had to happen, and there are some rumors that in fact Lebron through his people let the team know that he wasnt pleased with either Brown or Ferry. I dont know if it is true, and if so him leaving that sort of thing to his minions rather than speaking directly to Gilbert would in my opinion reflect badly on Lebron and his maturity and leadership qualities.

[heathmalc]

You are wrong. Kobe Bryant and the Lakers just did the exact same thing. Kobe didn't accept his option year...it was terminated, and he signed an extension (3yrs) that begins next season.

Lol, you are comparing a player with a contract (Bryant actually HAS a contract with the Lakers) with a player who has NO contract. James doesn't have a contract to extend, if he isn't using his option until June the 30th. If he uses that option, it is OBVIOUSLY that he has a contract for next season and that year will count to the 5 years. The max extension James can sign is a 4 yr extension in case he uses his option. THERE ARE NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES FOR AN EXTENSION. A non-existing contract CAN'T be extended!

Really, you have no clue. That also makes your next post completely useless.

Actually, that is why your post is useless - You continue to tap away at your keyboard, trying to convince the people who take the time to read what you say, that you know what you are talking about... despite the fact that you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

LeBron doesn't need to use his option... I thought I pointed that out to you. The point here was to have LeBron sign an extension BEFORE July 1st! This is why I think the Cavs are intent on making their big trade before that date... to do just what I was hypothesizing.

Now, go back to your cartoons.

[twix2500]

That's why I said they are trying to keep it low key, and it helps that Grant seems to be well respected around the league. In fact he turned down the ATL GM job last year to stay, so that part of the FO seems to be in good hands. A big change like that done with little turmoil should show that the organization is very solid.
And the coaching thing is a catch 22, in that what coach will come here not knowing what Lebron will do, and why does Lebron commit without knowing who the coach is? Btw, I didnt quote you saying the FO is in shambles, but rather I thought you might have been implying something along those lines. I was just pointing out that at this point its been very calm and smooth as far as the actual change of personnel.
The fact is around these parts many of us Cavs fans are a bit on edge in regards to opinions about our organization and how it will affect "The Decision" so to speak, when in reality Gilbert and the Cavs organization has done everything as well as could be expected in order to keep Lebron here.
Brown going had to happen, and there are some rumors that in fact Lebron through his people let the team know that he wasnt pleased with either Brown or Ferry. I dont know if it is true, and if so him leaving that sort of thing to his minions rather than speaking directly to Gilbert would in my opinion reflect badly on Lebron and his maturity and leadership qualities.

I agree that Ferry is trying to leave as classy as possible and big ups to him for that. It helps with the fan perspective but I dont it makes a difference to Lebron. I will not even listen to the rumors that Lebron wanted Brown to leave. Reporters always throw that out there when a coach is on the hot seat and they have a big name player. Reporters and talk show host use that as talking points. Its very interest non the less. Personally I dont think Brown should have gotten fired, the personal didn't fit his scheme or coaching philosophy. He was a defensive coach with bad defensive players, and nontraditional offensive players. Their personal just get exposed in the playoffs, and Brown hide there weakness extremely well to the point where observers didnt know they had these weaknesses.

[heathmalc]

...Personally I dont think Brown should have gotten fired, the personal didn't fit his scheme or coaching philosophy. He was a defensive coach with bad defensive players, and nontraditional offensive players. Their personal just get exposed in the playoffs, and Brown hid their weakness extremely well to the point where observers didn't know they had these weaknesses.

The personnel on the court was not why we lost in the playoffs. Brown also was not adept at hiding anyone's weaknesses. I personally liked Mike Brown, but the fact that he had a lot of flaws in his coaching ability, goes without saying.

Brown was horrible at in-game adjustments. He was most comfortable when playing a set offense and a set defense, that didn't require any true adjustments against the opponent. During the regular season, you don't usually have more than a day off in-between games, so teams play set systems, and the only real adjustments that are needed are for players who get in foul trouble, or are injured. Outside of that, no game-adjustments are really made.

During the playoffs, you face a team 7 straight times (maximum). Teams adjust to cover their weaknesses and exploit the other team's flaws. Brown was only good at this when he had two or more days in-between games. When he had the time, he'd use Malone & Jent along with himself, and break down the entire video, and then use the video segments to show the team what they were doing wrong, and how to fix it. When there wasn't more than a day off, he didn't have the time to do this breakdown of video, and he was poor at describing the problem(s) the team had w/o those segmented videos. Because of that, Brown's own flaws shined brightly during the series against Boston, and against Orlando last season.

Brown is a good coach, and after more seasoning, he may become a great coach. But right now, Brown has problems adjusting from his set offense and defense. He was interned under Popovich, who also uses very few adjustments, as the adjustments the Spurs use(d) were part of the regular sets. So, Brown never became adept at adjusting. When he was under Carlisle in Indiana, it was much of the same thing...as Carlisle was continuously criticized for his in-game adjustments.

The Cavaliers had the personnel to win a championship on the basketball court. The problem was that the personnel that sat on the bench wasn't up to the task.

[gflem]

While I (and many others here) agree that Brown's system did hide some of the players weaknesses on D, the team appeared to have tuned him out in the playoffs. Most people around the city that I have spoke with regard Brown as a good guy and good defensive coach, the consensus seems to be that his rotations and game strategy left something to be desired. That is where I stand, and maybe I steer the conversations in that direction with my opinion though.
The roster is somewhat mismatched, but in some instances like with Jamison, there never seemed to be an effort to find where he was comfortable with the ball, and how to best utilize his skills. Lebron imo played a part in that just by dominating the ball, and with Shaq coming back off injury it only compounded that. This team was outplayed by Boston, and while the elbow injury played a part, we will never know to what extent.
Of course the timing of Ferry and Brown leaving isnt good, but there seems to be a calm resolve in the way the team has handled this, at least from the outside. And yes, Lebron has the inside scoop, but with the team exploring trade options, and possibly trying to sign players (mid-level) that is obviously the best front, desperation on any level or even any hint of that could be devastating.

[twix2500]

I have to disagree with you on what you think the Cavs were capable of doing on the defensive side. I think most over rated Cleveland roster, their flaws were huge. I do not think you could hide Cleveland defensive flaws any better than what Brown did. Offensively yea thats where Brown had a weakness coaching wise. Their offense should of been better with the talent they had. But with the nontraditional point and PF offensively had to be manage by an offesive coach. The potential was there but needed someone with a creative mind. I think if the GM provided Brown that fits his philosphy, he could of taken full advantage of it.

[Three34]

Kobe didn't accept his option year...it was terminated, and he signed an extension (3yrs) that begins next season.

Kobe exercised his player option for the 2010/11 season concurrently with signing his three year extension, and that's why the extension begins in 2011/12.

[Three34]

James doesn't have a contract to extend, if he isn't using his option until June the 30th.

Seasons don't switch over until July 1st, and LeBron is under contract until then. As such, he can sign an extension until that time. Antawn Jamison did this last season, signing a four year extension on the last day before the moratorium.

[mysticbb]

Seasons don't switch over until July 1st, and LeBron is under contract until then.

Actually, I know that, but heathmalc wanted to sign James to a 5yr extension without the option and I understood he wanted to do that after Juli 1st. Anyway, I asked you that in the other thread, whether technically speaking the contract would be over after the last game? Not that this really matters in that case anyway., even though heathmalc changed the subject a little bit and now wants to sign James to a 5yr extension before July 1st without exercising his option. Maybe he realised that extending a non-existent contract is a tough thing.

[heathmalc]

Seasons don't switch over until July 1st, and LeBron is under contract until then.

Actually, I know that, but heathmalc wanted to sign James to a 5yr extension without the option and I understood he wanted to do that after Juli 1st. Anyway, I asked you that in the other thread, whether technically speaking the contract would be over after the last game? Not that this really matters in that case anyway., even though heathmalc changed the subject a little bit and now wants to sign James to a 5yr extension before July 1st without exercising his option. Maybe he realised that extending a non-existent contract is a tough thing.

No, what actually happened (after going back and reading my original post) was that I got the two ideas I had mixed-up & intertwined. My idea was that LeBron could sign a 5yr extension before July 1st, and the Cavs could try to sign & trade for a Bosh-type star in a S&T(sign extension & trade), also before July 1st... My other idea (if the 1st didn't work out) was to sign LeBron to a contract (officially after July 8th), and then S&T a bosh type star.

After reading the original post, I see where (and why) there was confusion. Sometimes this happens why writing long posts, as I don't re-read them to make sure my thoughts/ideas are always sequential in how they'd happen.

Anyway... Lets just get LeBron to re-sign (either way) and get him a robin...however they can get it done.

[InsideInfo]

Hey, Bulls fan here. I am JW if LBJ does leave the great city of cleveland, does it matter to you where he goes? Do you guys hate Chicago more then NY or Miami?

Also would you rather see the team do a S&T or just let him walk?