Why only 3 years max in an extension?

[Mr. Sun]

Some *insider* claims Amar'e wants a 6 year deal with the Suns. But Suns can't do that, right? I recall Gasol and Kobe could only be extended to an additional 3 years max. So I assume the same is true for Amar'e?

Now, I assume it might be different if he opts out and then re-signs? (incidentally, the *insider* claims Amar'e won't be opting out!)

[Three34]

Now, I assume it might be different if he opts out and then re-signs?

Yes it would.

The three years of Amare's extension would include this year and next, thus five in total, even though this one is basically already over. And extensions are limited to five seasons.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q51

[FGump]

The length of Kobe's deal was limited by over-36 rules.

[answerthink]

As Sham notes, extensions of non-rookie scale contracts are limited to five seasons, including the seasons remaining on the current contract.

Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant signed their three-year extensions in December 2009 and March 2010, respectively, each with two seasons remaining on his contract… equaling five total seasons (through 2013/14).

If Amare wants to secure a long-term contract with the Suns this offseason, he has three options. He can extend his current contract now, for up to an additional three seasons (through 2013/14). He can extend his current contract after the NBA Finals are over, for up to an additional four seasons (through 2014/15). Or he can terminate his existing contract and sign a new contract for up to six seasons (through 2015/16).

As FGump notes, had Kobe waited until after the playoffs were over to sign his extension, he would have been restricted by the Over-36 rules. Gasol had no such restriction.

My apologies to both Sham and FGump that much of this is repetitive but I felt it would be clearer altogether.

[Dunkenstein]

He can extend his current contract after the NBA Finals are over, for up to an additional four seasons (through 2014/15).

Why do you say he can extend for four years after the Finals are over? My understanding is that he would have to wait until after the commencement of the new salary cap year on July 1 to get a four-year extension.

[answerthink]

For the purposes of the calculation, a "season" ends immediately after the last game of the NBA Finals.

[Dunkenstein]

For the purposes of the calculation, a "season" ends immediately after the last game of the NBA Finals.

What are you basing that on? The definition of "season" at the beginning of the CBA?

[answerthink]

Yep. That in combination with Art IX, Sec 2.

[Dunkenstein]

From the definitions section of the CBA: “Season” or “NBA Season” means the period beginning on the first day of training camp and ending immediately after the last game of the NBA Finals.

Art IX, Sec 2: "if a Player Contract or Extension is signed after the beginning of a Season, the Season in which the Contract or Extension is signed shall be counted as one (1) full Season covered by the Contract or Extension."

So a literal reading of the CBA would seem to indicate that Amare could not sign a four year extension until after the beginning of training camp, defined above as the beginning of the season, not the day after the end of the previous season (the day after the last game of the Finals).

But as we've seen too often in the past, literal readings of the CBA are some times not how the League actually interprets the meaning of the language in real life.

As it happens, a few years ago a friend of mine was working in the front office of a team that was negotiating an extension with one of its players, and he asked the league office for clarification of just this issue. He was told that for purposes of contract extensions the term "season" meant the same as "salary cap year" (beginning July 1).

So one the one hand, a player doesn't have to wait until the beginning of training camp to sign a maximum-length extension. By the same token, he can't do it the day after the Finals, since the league still considers the period between the end of the Finals and July 1 as part of the previous season in this instance.

[answerthink]

I would suggest you're not reading the paragraph correctly.

The first part of Art IX, Sec 2 says "If a Player Contract or Extension is signed after the beginning of a Season..." If Amare signed his extension after the playoffs, he wouldn't be signing a contract after the beginning of a Season. He would be signing between Seasons. Extensions don't require a player to include past Seasons; they only require a player to include current and future Seasons.

I have not contacted the league about this issue. I am only offering an interpretation of the agreement, which appears to be quite clear. Of course, I can't speak to the issue with your friend because I don't know who you're speaking of.

[Dunkenstein]

Extensions don't require a player to include past Seasons; they only require a player to include current and future Seasons.

But as you point out between the end of the Finals and the beginning of training camp there is no "current season". That's why the league chose July 1 (the beginning of the salary cap year) as the beginning of the "current season" when dealing with contract extensions.

[answerthink]

I think you may be confusing things.

Whether Amare signs after the playoffs or after July 1 does not matter for the purposes of the calculation. Neither date is considered part of a "current" season. A "current" season starts on the first day of training camp and ends after the finals. In either case, Amare would be signing an extension that has zero current seasons and five future seasons.

If he waits until after training camp, he would be signing an extension that includes one current season and four future seasons.

In any of these scenarios, the contract could extend only through 2014/15.

[mysticbb]

Regarding contract extensions: I'm in a dispute with someone on the Cavaliers board. He claims that LeBron James can sign a 5yr extension this summer. He also claims that it is possible to extend his contract without exercising his option for the next year. I said he is wrong on that.
Well, someone cares to tell me why I'm wrong and James is able to sign a 5yr extension this summer without exercising his option for next season?

[Three34]

He can sign an extension between now and the 30th, but it can only be for a maximum of five season, including remaining years on his current contract. This'll be two years with the exercising of his option. Also note that raises in extensions are limited to 10.5% of the last year of the previous contract, and not 10.5% of the first year of the extension, so that will cost him a few quid.

[mysticbb]

Isn't the contract only running until the last game of the season? Thus technically speaking James doesn't have a contract right now?

But that is only a minor thing here, because if he signs an extension before the 30th, that extension will give him only a contract until 2013/14 with $16.6m next season, if he doesn't exercise his option or start with $17.1m, if he uses his option. If he signs a contract extension later, he could sign a 4yr extension until 2014/15, but there is no way that he can sign a 5yr extension until 2015/16, right?

And overall my point was: Signing a new 6yr max contract with Cleveland will give him the most money, more than signing an extension of any kind.

[Three34]

To answer your initial point, Antawn Jamison signed an extension on June 30th last year. And LeBron can exercise his PO as a part of the extension, just like Kobe did a few months back.

[Three34]

A "current" season starts on the first day of training camp and ends after the finals..

But a current "salary cap year" doesn't. And what Dunk is claiming is that, even though the CBA's wording says "Season" and not "Salary Cap Year", the league uses them as synonyms when dealing with extensions. Technically, they probably shouldn't, but it's only important as to whether they do. And apparently they do.

[mysticbb]

To answer your initial point, Antawn Jamison signed an extension on June 30th last year. And LeBron can exercise his PO as a part of the extension, just like Kobe did a few months back.

Ok, that makes sense. My original argument was that James can only sign an extension, if he is using his option, because I thought we were talking about signing a contract extension after July 1st, but whatever. Well, the guy changed the subject a little bit. Which raised a question for me: Has James a contract right now without using his option or not? I couldn't really figure that out.

As is always the case with all extensions other than rookie scale ones, it's five total years. So no, he can't sign an extension that runs through 2016.

Not that it seems to mean much to heathmalc, but that is exactly what I told him.

[Three34]

Not that it seems to mean much to heathmalc, but that is exactly what I told him.

In the light of the earlier part of this thread, I took that bit out. i believe that what Dunk has said is right, but there's no holes in answerthink's argument either. The question is whether the league does what its own drafted CBA says it does. They don't always do so, and Dunk's friend seems to confirm that this is one such time.

The Jamison example, by the way, would suggest that the 2008-09 season counted. If he could sign for a maximum of five years, why did he sign for four? Maybe the Wizards only wanted to sign him for four because he's old and a bit average......or maybe it's because the 2008-09 season still counted as a "Season", even after the final game was played, and thus four was the maximum he could get. I speculate the latter.

EDIT - but yeah, he can't sign an extension through 2016 either way. This thread questions whether he could sign one through 2014 or 2015, but either way, that's not 2016.

[answerthink]

James can extend his current contract now, for up to an additional three seasons (through 2013/14). James can extend his current contract after the NBA Finals are over, for up to an additional four seasons (through 2014/15).

James cannot extend his contract following the non-excerise of his option. A contract can only be extended following the non-exercise of an option if the player receives no less than he would have received in his option year had it been exercised. Given the max salary implications, that would not be possible for James.

Jamison signed his 4-year extension at age 32. Had he extended for 5 seasons, his contract would have been classified an Over-36 contract.