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Draft Talk- Prospect Watch

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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#541 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 7, 2010 10:41 pm

Paeds wrote:
ITGM wrote:If Jerome Randle was 6'3 with the exact same skill set, he'd be a top 5 lottery pick. Jerome Randle is just an inch shorter than future HOF'er Allen Iverson, we are lucky that such a talent will drop to us.



Jerome Randle = Steph Curry 2.0



If def reminds me of S. Curry


Curry is 6'3", strong, has an extremely high IQ and plays under control. Randle? Not so much. I would advise against falling in love with his shooting percentage in college. The guy I compared him to (Tyronn Lue) also shot great in college.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#542 » by mrpoetryNmotion » Mon Jun 7, 2010 10:42 pm

^ I agree. There are plenty of other taller guards that I'd rather come away with in this draft.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#543 » by Paeds » Tue Jun 8, 2010 1:43 am

Curry is 6'3", strong, has an extremely high IQ and plays under control. Randle? Not so much. I would advise against falling in love with his shooting percentage in college. The guy I compared him to (Tyronn Lue) also shot great in college.


you dont have to sing Curry's praises to me, I was one of the first people on this board to advocate getting him. there are alot of similaraties in their games

Lue never shot over 40% 3pt nor did he ever shoot over 90% ft like Randle did, In fact he has never come close to Randles 46% 3pt and 93% ft
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#544 » by BRIGGS » Tue Jun 8, 2010 2:36 am

Im going for my two official picks for the Knicks.

now this is based on players not falling and what the mock drafts combined have left to take

38 Ben Uzoh PG Tulsa 6-4 200
39 Craig Brackins F Iowa St 6-10 PF

Back up pick is Marques Blakely F 6-6 225
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#545 » by Paeds » Tue Jun 8, 2010 5:11 am

BRIGGS wrote:Im going for my two official picks for the Knicks.

now this is based on players not falling and what the mock drafts combined have left to take

38 Ben Uzoh PG Tulsa 6-4 200
39 Craig Brackins F Iowa St 6-10 PF

Back up pick is Marques Blakely F 6-6 225



Yeah I would be very happy with Brackins or Dominique Jones

I dont know Uzoh

didnt Blakely have some Crazy Ridculous wingspan or something?
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#546 » by stuporman » Tue Jun 8, 2010 7:10 am

I liked 'Big Baby' coming into the draft and so many said he wasn't gonna be crap in the NBA. He was just so skilled, good range on his shooting, worked hard and was much more agile than he looked with his size. He turned out to be a very good producer in the NBA. I think Gallon potentially could be like that but a bit better and more of a starter than Davis is.

Randle reminds me of slightly shorter Aaron Brooks who I thought wouldn't find a niche in the NBA and was dead wrong. Randle probably has more PG skills than Brooks but can shoot as well. He'll need to have a great mid range game with floaters and stuff with being able to finish around the basket amongst the trees to succeed in the NBA. Will always be a liability on D so it is imperative there's good shot blocking behind him on the front line.

I think there will be alot of interesting prospects around for the Knicks at their two second rounders.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#547 » by Paeds » Tue Jun 8, 2010 1:41 pm

stuporman wrote:I liked 'Big Baby' coming into the draft and so many said he wasn't gonna be crap in the NBA. He was just so skilled, good range on his shooting, worked hard and was much more agile than he looked with his size. He turned out to be a very good producer in the NBA. I think Gallon potentially could be like that but a bit better and more of a starter than Davis is.

Randle reminds me of slightly shorter Aaron Brooks who I thought wouldn't find a niche in the NBA and was dead wrong. Randle probably has more PG skills than Brooks but can shoot as well. He'll need to have a great mid range game with floaters and stuff with being able to finish around the basket amongst the trees to succeed in the NBA. Will always be a liability on D so it is imperative there's good shot blocking behind him on the front line.

I think there will be alot of interesting prospects around for the Knicks at their two second rounders.



Wow! Great comparison Stupor, I totally forgot about Brooks
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#548 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 8, 2010 1:43 pm

stuporman wrote:I liked 'Big Baby' coming into the draft and so many said he wasn't gonna be crap in the NBA. He was just so skilled, good range on his shooting, worked hard and was much more agile than he looked with his size. He turned out to be a very good producer in the NBA. I think Gallon potentially could be like that but a bit better and more of a starter than Davis is.

Randle reminds me of slightly shorter Aaron Brooks who I thought wouldn't find a niche in the NBA and was dead wrong. Randle probably has more PG skills than Brooks but can shoot as well. He'll need to have a great mid range game with floaters and stuff with being able to finish around the basket amongst the trees to succeed in the NBA. Will always be a liability on D so it is imperative there's good shot blocking behind him on the front line.

I think there will be alot of interesting prospects around for the Knicks at their two second rounders.


Brooks has one of the quickest first steps in the NBA. Randle? For a small guy like that, he doesn't. But we'll see I guess. I would be extremely surprised if the Knicks pick him. Douglas is their guy. And neither Randle nor Douglas can really play any other position but PG. Both are scoring points more so than passing points. Both have that "never back down" effort, which is nice but the reality of it is there are more pressing needs to fill up the roster than another guy to compete with Douglas as a less than ideal PG for SSOL.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#549 » by Johnny Hoops » Tue Jun 8, 2010 2:26 pm

Does the Randle kid play defense?

I only caught him one time and was very impressed with him offensively but don't recall how he played defense.

Mugsy Bogues was barely 5'6" if that and he was a dynamic defensive force that few teams ever took advantage of. The Knicks could barely get the ball over half court against Mugsy's pressure defense and Mugsy couldn't shoot a lick.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#550 » by stuporman » Tue Jun 8, 2010 3:49 pm

He has an excellent first step, which coupled with his quickness, agility, ability to change speeds and body control, allows him to get into the lane and create opportunities for himself around the rim.


Not so much the not so much even if it's not fastest of the fastest...

On the defensive end, his lack of size and strength did him few favors and will also be a problem at the next level. Outside of these concerns, he is has fairly good fundamentals and had a solid defensive performance at Portsmouth. He was active, always in his man’s face, utilizing his excellent lateral quickness and aggressiveness to his advantage. While he struggled getting through screens initially, and will likely struggle in this area in the NBA, he displayed solid anticipation and adjusted somewhat throughout. It was clear after Portsmouth that while Jerome Randle will not be a great NBA defender, he should not be as much of a liability as his size would suggest.


He won't shut anyone down but he's no Nate!

As a point guard, Randle displayed unparalleled vision and never lost sight of his teammates on the floor. He also knew how to deliver his teammates the ball in optimal scoring positions relative to their respective skill sets. Outside of a few wild passes, which were very much the norm in this setting, he played under control and with impressive maturity, dictating the tempo whenever he was on the floor. He had no trouble adjusting to traps, simply passing over or around bigger or more athletic defenders. He also ran the pick and roll successfully. His ball handling and passing skills are both top notch and he looks as though he can play a variety of roles as a back-up or third string point guard at the next level.


I doubt he'll ever be a starter but as a guy who comes off the bench for a change of pace backup, sweet shooting bucket getter and can still run on offense efficiently he could be worth a second rounder. I'm not usually a fan of midgies as they cause more hassle on the defense than they are worth but for a 10-15 mpg back-up he has all you are looking for to get a spark off the bench.

I still like Armon Johnson more but his shooting is a concern with he prospect of a ball handling star wing coming aboard the roster. Whereas a guy like Randle who can hit it from just inside half court would be a nice weapon to have as a spot minutes guy. I still like TD best with his skill mix and a bonus is he is already on the roster!

I think if the Knicks see him there late in the second round they should buy a pick and get him. Not use either of the earlier seconds on him, though.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#551 » by Paeds » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:21 pm

Brooks has one of the quickest first steps in the NBA. Randle? For a small guy like that, he doesn't. But we'll see I guess. I would be extremely surprised if the Knicks pick him. Douglas is their guy. And neither Randle nor Douglas can really play any other position but PG. Both are scoring points more so than passing points. Both have that "never back down" effort, which is nice but the reality of it is there are more pressing needs to fill up the roster than another guy to compete with Douglas as a less than ideal PG for SSOL.


I hear you keep saying that he isnt quick but that is not true according to everything I have read

He has an excellent first step, which coupled with his quickness, agility, ability to change speeds and body control, allows him to get into the lane and create opportunities for himself around the rim.


he has excellent instincts to, adjusting well to almost every defender he saw at Portsmouth, from Mikhail Torrance, a 6’5 athlete, to the fastest player in college basketball, Ish Smith. He is a very smart player and is able to exploit and anticipate his opponents’ weaknesses in order to compensate for his lack of ideal size, something that should help him tremendously at the NBA level.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#552 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:21 pm

Here's a link to an interesting "Team Needs" article by Jonathan Wasserman and guys he listed for the Knicks as likely targets.

http://www.nbadraft.net/team-needs-atlantic-division-1

Jarvis Varnardo - One of, if not the best shotblocker in the nation, Varnardo would be the first real shotblocker the Knicks had since Marcus Camby in 1999 when they represented the East in the NBA Finals... Not much of an offensive threat, but considering the Knicks defense the past decade, it could be worth the sacrifice

Jordan Crawford - Will get a serious look if still around by pick 38, as someone who can actually put the ball in the basket. He's a scorer in every sense of the word, and shot pretty well at the combine, a must in a Mike D'antoni system

Tiny Gallon - A bruiser down low with a midrange jumper, Gallon could actually give the Knicks some size and versatility in the paint, something they haven't had since.... Anthony Mason?

Mikhail Torrance - An actual playmaker who has shown he can run the point, he has size and handle- a rare combination - finds ways at getting inside the paint, and can play tough D on the other side of the ball

Jerome Jordan - Not the toughest kid on the block, but at 7'1 he's a true center who can hit the mid range jumper and score in the paint. Eddy Curry is currently the only center under contract, but he doesn't really count.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#553 » by Pharmcat » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:27 pm

^any combo of those guys, we should be happy
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#554 » by Paeds » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:35 pm

I dont see us taking a one dimensional player like Varnado
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#555 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:35 pm

Paeds wrote:
Brooks has one of the quickest first steps in the NBA. Randle? For a small guy like that, he doesn't. But we'll see I guess. I would be extremely surprised if the Knicks pick him. Douglas is their guy. And neither Randle nor Douglas can really play any other position but PG. Both are scoring points more so than passing points. Both have that "never back down" effort, which is nice but the reality of it is there are more pressing needs to fill up the roster than another guy to compete with Douglas as a less than ideal PG for SSOL.


I hear you keep saying that he isnt quick but that is not true according to everything I have read

He has an excellent first step, which coupled with his quickness, agility, ability to change speeds and body control, allows him to get into the lane and create opportunities for himself around the rim.


he has excellent instincts to, adjusting well to almost every defender he saw at Portsmouth, from Mikhail Torrance, a 6’5 athlete, to the fastest player in college basketball, Ish Smith. He is a very smart player and is able to exploit and anticipate his opponents’ weaknesses in order to compensate for his lack of ideal size, something that should help him tremendously at the NBA level.


His most significant weakness is obvious his lack of size. Measuring 5-9 ½ with a slight frame and without great length, Randle will have ample size and strength issues at the next level. He does have very good quickness and agility, however. Outside of the fact that he is just an average leaper for his size, he is a terrific overall athlete.


Lacks the prototypical PG size which hurts him significantly against bigger opponents ... His height makes it difficult for him to finish at the basket, especially against the helpside defense ... He is a hard working and tough defender, but with his size he will be undersized on a nightly basis … His light frame makes it difficult for him to keep more physical guards out of the lane (as they can body him all the way to the hoop) … For such a quick player, he surprisingly doesn’t have elite level open court speed (his short strides don’t allow him to cover a lot of ground when going full speed) ... Has a tendency to take shots early in the shot clock and out of the offense too often ... Can become to scoring oriented at times … Over penetrates and gets in trouble by attacking into traffic, forcing him to make tough plays which usually lead to turnovers ...


The "elite open court" speed is what guys like Aaron Brooks, Nate Robinson, Louis Williams, Monta Ellis, etc. have. Then you tack on his small stature and weak frame and he's not going to be able to do much at all near the basket IMHO. As a result, and back to why I said you'll basically end up with a 5'9" (in shoes) jump shooter. And it goes back to my Nate Robinson jump shooting comment...Robinson can get his shot off because he has phenomenal elevation on his jumps. Randle? He doesn't. He'll have problems getting his shot off except off of screens in pick and roll situations (which limits his jump shooting potency). I'm not so keen on his PG skills as his size and inability to finish around the rim will force defenders to pretty much face guard him to death on the perimeter (even further weakening his shot) and force him to try to drive to the basket into the trees.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#556 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:37 pm

Paeds wrote:I dont see us taking a one dimensional player like Varnado


You never know. Would be hard yes to see D'Antoni playing him.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#557 » by Pharmcat » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:44 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Paeds wrote:I dont see us taking a one dimensional player like Varnado


You never know. Would be hard yes to see D'Antoni playing him.


as long as he can do put backs and catch the ball of a pick and roll i think he can be fine

remember, these 2 second rounders will be our 2nd unit, not our first unit unless we strike out on FA with every1
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#558 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:50 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Paeds wrote:I dont see us taking a one dimensional player like Varnado


You never know. Would be hard yes to see D'Antoni playing him.


as long as he can do put backs and catch the ball of a pick and roll i think he can be fine

remember, these 2 second rounders will be our 2nd unit, not our first unit unless we strike out on FA with every1


Vornado's only offensive skill (that he'd be able to execute in the NBA regularly) is a dunk (likely off of an offensive rebound). He's pretty much a one trick poney but that one trick is absolutely terrific. His thin frame will make it hard for him to be a good man-to-man defender at the PF position and he's not anywhere near ball able to play SF, so I can see why people have their doubts about him.

But then again and that said, and I said this before, Dennis Rodman was also a one trick poney (heck, Rodman had a hard time even with dunks) and didn't have the ideal size for a PF (he was only 6'7" and about 220lbs) and he did more than fine for himself with the niche he found. That's what makes this (getting the draft right) so difficult.
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#559 » by Pharmcat » Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:55 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
You never know. Would be hard yes to see D'Antoni playing him.


as long as he can do put backs and catch the ball of a pick and roll i think he can be fine

remember, these 2 second rounders will be our 2nd unit, not our first unit unless we strike out on FA with every1


Vornado's only offensive skill (that he'd be able to execute in the NBA regularly) is a dunk (likely off of an offensive rebound). He's pretty much a one trick poney but that one trick is absolutely terrific. His thin frame will make it hard for him to be a good man-to-man defender at the PF position and he's not anywhere near ball able to play SF, so I can see why people have their doubts about him.

But then again and that said, and I said this before, Dennis Rodman was also a one trick poney (heck, Rodman had a hard time even with dunks) and didn't have the ideal size for a PF (he was only 6'7" and about 220lbs) and he did more than fine for himself with the niche he found. That's what makes this (getting the draft right) so difficult.


so take jordan over him?
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Re: Draft Talk- Prospect Watch 

Post#560 » by ManiaX » Tue Jun 8, 2010 5:03 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Paeds wrote:I dont see us taking a one dimensional player like Varnado


You never know. Would be hard yes to see D'Antoni playing him.


as long as he can do put backs and catch the ball of a pick and roll i think he can be fine

remember, these 2 second rounders will be our 2nd unit, not our first unit unless we strike out on FA with every1


Varnado reminds me a bit too much of guys like Stephen Lasme and Pops Mensha-Bonsu. All of these guys were super athletic great college shot blockers who also had freakish wingspans. Unfortunately similar to Varnado they were both undersized, not strong enough to play C, and had limited offensive skills so they could not play PF either.

Those were the only 2 guys that i could remember off the top of my head, but i am almost positive there is a great college shot blocker every draft that the Knicks board goes crazy over and his skill does not translate over to the NBA game.

Varnado does seem to be a legit 6-10 so he does at least have that on his side, so he may be a rare exception.

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