How do the Jazz improve their D?

[HolyToledo]

Watchin the Celtics and Lakers, it is clear their team D is 100 times superior to the Jazz D. How do you think the Jazz can improve their D next year?

1) Letting Boozer leave improves the D by his absence. He is the worst defensive starting PF in NBA history!!!!

2) Center position needs big improvement!!! A shot blocking center is needed!! I have suggested Boozer in sign and trade for Biedrens and maggette. You are not getting Biedrens without taking on Maggette. I also suggested getting Camby last year, but the Jazz played it too conservative. Is there a cheap shot blocking center out there? There is no one in draft at 9th position that helps us here.

3) Parameter D on the Jazz was also weak!!! DWILL is a bad man on man defender especially versus fast point guards. Matthews works as hard as anyone but lacks lenght. Is there a Brewer type player in the draft who can shoot a little and backup our wings?

4) Coaching is also an issue as AK-47 has not been used correctly and needs alot of time at PF. With Boozer leaving maybe start Milsap and bring AK-47 off the bench at both forward positions. At least, he gives us some shot blocking potential on the team.

It just seems that the Jazz with DWILL running the team will be able to score enough even without Boozer BUT their personnel simply needs a change if they are going to be good enough Defensively to ever make any noise in the playoffs!!! The Jazz roster is full of good offensive players who are terrible defenders.

[stevebozell]

I figured for sure that this was yet another Camby thread.

[babyjax13]

I can handle taking Biendrins and Maggette, it makes sense for Utah - but Golden State doesn't need Boozer, especially if they still have Nellie.

Deron struggles to defend very few point guards, it is only guys like Tony Parker that have speed and finishing abilities that he can't stop. As long as he keeps giving effort I can handle it. Besides, Price is quick enough to keep up with any of those players.

AK is naturally a power forward, and with Memo out and if Boozer returns expect to see those two teaming up quite often in the middle with a Millsap/Fesenko tandem off the bench.

I think that you are under-rating this team's defense. We do lack shot-blockers but what we don't lack is guys that can adequately defend their positions on most nights.

Great defenders -
Wes Mathews
Ronnie Price

Good/Great defenders -
Andrei Kirilenko
Paul Millsap

Good Defenders (Above average) -
Deron Williams
CJ Miles

Average Defenders -
Carlos Boozer
Kyrylo Fesenko

Below Average -
Kyle Korver
Mehmet Okur

Really the only thing that our defense is missing is a good shot-blocker in the middle. Having someone that can alter shots will help our interior D and it will also help AK to get more blocks because he isn't the only player teams have to worry about.

[Jazzfan12]

I don't think Fesenko is coming back. Some team like the Kings or Knicks is likely to offer him four years, sixteen million imo.

[babyjax13]

I can't see a team offering him much more than he makes, there are just so many players that are better.

[DelaneyRudd]

Fesenko will get 2 mil tops, worth matching.

[HolyToledo]

Fess is not a starting center in this league. Kosta has more upside and work ethic and his upside isnt that good!!! I really dont care if Fess stays or not as he is simply a back up center without the work ethic to become a solid starting center. I kinda hope the Jazz start Kosta next year if they stay status quo less Boozer who is gone for sure. Boozer has already commenced his chicago/Heat preferred destinations talk again.

Jazz starting lineup next year probably at start of year

PG Williams Price Gaines
SG Matthews Korver
C Kosta Fess (Memo??) Monroe
PF Millsap AK-47 Monroe
SF Miles AK-47 Korver

45-37 and no playoffs due to lack of rebounding and interior defense!!! The Jazz hopes for a true contender in the future rests in Kosta and this years #1 pick....Not good!!!!

[DelaneyRudd]

Memo will be back a month into the season at worst. It wasn't a catastrophic tear.

[S2Minem]

I can handle taking Biendrins and Maggette, it makes sense for Utah - but Golden State doesn't need Boozer, especially if they still have Nellie.

Deron struggles to defend very few point guards, it is only guys like Tony Parker that have speed and finishing abilities that he can't stop. As long as he keeps giving effort I can handle it. Besides, Price is quick enough to keep up with any of those players.

AK is naturally a power forward, and with Memo out and if Boozer returns expect to see those two teaming up quite often in the middle with a Millsap/Fesenko tandem off the bench.

I think that you are under-rating this team's defense. We do lack shot-blockers but what we don't lack is guys that can adequately defend their positions on most nights.

Great defenders -
Wes Mathews
Ronnie Price

Good/Great defenders -
Andrei Kirilenko
Paul Millsap

Good Defenders (Above average) -
Deron Williams
CJ Miles

Average Defenders -
Carlos Boozer
Kyrylo Fesenko

Below Average -
Kyle Korver
Mehmet Okur

Really the only thing that our defense is missing is a good shot-blocker in the middle. Having someone that can alter shots will help our interior D and it will also help AK to get more blocks because he isn't the only player teams have to worry about.

You were rolling along OK until you put Millsap as a good/great defender relative to Fesenko as an average defender, alongside Boozer. Fes is not a particularly prolific shot blocker, but he led the team in the regular season in blocking rate. So if the goal is a "shot-blocking center," then Fes is the closest to fitting that requirement. Even I would agree that he needs to continue to develop on both ends of the floor, but you are underestimating his contribution, especially in the playoffs, if you are calling him an average defender. He is definitely a better defender than Boozer (except possibly in the rare occasions when Booze tries).

We have been through a lengthy thread already about Fesenko. He led the team in on-court/off-court +/-, even though he's not a good scorer, so his presence (thanks in part to his natural height and passable athleticism), is sooo much better than playing Boozer and Millsap together.

Part of the process of winning a title is to equip the team to beat L.A., and Fesenko can be an affordable part of that process, just like Kendrick Perkins was a couple of years ago (but wasn't particularly so Thursday night in Finals Game 1).

And besides re-signing him, some of you JazzFanz already know what I believe to be the #1 step for Fes to develop from being just a net positive contribution to a convincing center on both ends--something that Utah hasn't really ever had. He needs more playing time. An average of 3 or 4 MPG (based on an estimated 70 games available) isn't gonna cut it. Utah went in the playoffs without HC advantage AND without developed centers, so any limitation of PT to the young bigs under the guise of winning games was a rather wasted strategy. My claim is that Fes could've gotten more minutes without compromising the team's W-L record anyway.

[dr0welf]

I don't agree with your assessment that "D-Will is a bad Man to Man defender". I actually think he is a really good man defender, he does have room for some improvement. He gets caught when he tries going over screens on faster players who can shoot. If he goes under the screen they pop the 3, if he goes over he has to depend on the bigs in middle to slow or stop the guy. Unfortunately we are marshmellow soft inside, especially when Sap or AK are not on the floor. And when they are on the floor they come over from the week side and you don't see a second switch to cover their guy, so their guy gets easy lay ups off a pass from the guard. That is not DWill's fault. Their were times in the LA series that Dwill got match up against Kobe and actually held his own pretty well, making Kobe make the tough shot.

I think you have to get atleast one Brute in the middle that won't give up space easily and moves their feet. Problem is their are not a lot out their to be had. And he must be able to have a soft touch on the ball when he shoots....

[S2Minem]

I don't agree with your assessment that "D-Will is a bad Man to Man defender". I actually think he is a really good man defender, he does have room for some improvement. He gets caught when he tries going over screens on faster players who can shoot. If he goes under the screen they pop the 3, if he goes over he has to depend on the bigs in middle to slow or stop the guy. Unfortunately we are marshmellow soft inside, especially when Sap or AK are not on the floor. And when they are on the floor they come over from the week side and you don't see a second switch to cover their guy, so their guy gets easy lay ups off a pass from the guard. That is not DWill's fault. Their were times in the LA series that Dwill got match up against Kobe and actually held his own pretty well, making Kobe make the tough shot.

I agree with you that Deron can be a good defender, but quick guards can beat him when he's on defense and focused guards (Fisher) can frustrate him when he's on offense. I was generally pleased with the Jazz backcourt in the playoffs. Matthews vastly outperformed expectations for a rookie. The frontcourt, though, is another story.

I think you have to get atleast one Brute in the middle that won't give up space easily and moves their feet. Problem is their are not a lot out their to be had. And he must be able to have a soft touch on the ball when he shoots....

Wow--you are reaching for the stars. How many big men would fit under your definition? Would Gasol? Dwight Howard?

The difficulty in obtaining big men is why Utah should have worked more to develop one or more of the big men that they had, warts and all. I'd imagine that KK2 was disciplined in practice and Fes was not, but what both needed was PT. In case you wondered. But even without further development, Fes + CB/PM was better than Okur + CB and sometimes Okur + PM against some teams. Such as--say--the Lakers.

[dr0welf]

I think you have to get atleast one Brute in the middle that won't give up space easily and moves their feet. Problem is their are not a lot out their to be had. And he must be able to have a soft touch on the ball when he shoots....

Wow--you are reaching for the stars. How many big men would fit under your definition? Would Gasol? Dwight Howard? [/quote]

LOL .. the last part about a soft touch is sarcasm, I was going to put ",have a huge S on his shirt, and wear a cape" but didn't and left it to your imagination with "...." But seriously we need some nastiness in the middle on D. I thought Fes did a pretty good job on Nene hitting him early and keeping him away from the basket at times. Unfortunately he really struggled with the quicker players of the Lakers, but then so did Boozer. You have a brute foul Gasol a few times I think he would cry like a little girl. Dude looks like he's about to cry all the time.

I agree with your assessment that our bigs should have been played more during the season. They definately need more PT to get comfortable. Hind sight is 20/20 though, who would have thought Okur gets knocked out with a blown achilles? He's been one of our more dependable players when it comes to injuries and playing.

I don't see anyone available that we could get with a trade, but I do think this draft has some possibilities and we should try to move up or get another pick somehow. That's why O'conner gets paid the big bucks, to figure out how to pull rabbits from the hat.

[idajazz]

Face it folks, Fes and Doufos are not the answer in the post.
This team needs A big time face lift in that department.

I Hope that the draft pick works out, other than that, it will take a miracle for anything to change.

[S2Minem]

Face it folks, Fes and Doufos are not the answer in the post.
This team needs A big time face lift in that department.

I Hope that the draft pick works out, other than that, it will take a miracle for anything to change.

Um, it has already been stated that Fesenko was the only player with a positive +/- in each of the four Laker games. And he was a starter, so it wasn't just garbage time. When you start having multiple data points, then it just isn't a fluke.

Speaking of data points, given that Fes has played only as much as Ostertag played in his rookie year (and less than half of what Bynum did in his first two years), and given that it's pretty reasonable to assess that Fes is still undeveloped, then the easiest face lift is to actually give these bigs some PT so that they go from being net positive contributors to legit cogs on this team.

If the quips and body language from the mostly-guard workouts over the past few days is any indication, maybe Utah is very open to not drafting a 4/5 anyway. Or maybe they don't like what is likely going to be available at the #9 pick, although I would think that there are a couple of bigs who can probably play defense and will likely still be available.

[carrottop12]

Draft Aldrich.

[idajazz]

Face it folks, Fes and Doufos are not the answer in the post.
This team needs A big time face lift in that department.

I Hope that the draft pick works out, other than that, it will take a miracle for anything to change.

Um, it has already been stated that Fesenko was the only player with a positive +/- in each of the four Laker games. And he was a starter, so it wasn't just garbage time. When you start having multiple data points, then it just isn't a fluke.

Speaking of data points, given that Fes has played only as much as Ostertag played in his rookie year (and less than half of what Bynum did in his first two years), and given that it's pretty reasonable to assess that Fes is still undeveloped, then the easiest face lift is to actually give these bigs some PT so that they go from being net positive contributors to legit cogs on this team.

If the quips and body language from the mostly-guard workouts over the past few days is any indication, maybe Utah is very open to not drafting a 4/5 anyway. Or maybe they don't like what is likely going to be available at the #9 pick, although I would think that there are a couple of bigs who can probably play defense and will likely still be available.

Did you watch the Laker bigs destroy the Jazz?
Fes is what he is, a big body. Not much in the skill department.
We need some size, and athleticism.
If he is still on the board draft Aldrich.

[S2Minem]

Um, it has already been stated that Fesenko was the only player with a positive +/- in each of the four Laker games. And he was a starter, so it wasn't just garbage time. When you start having multiple data points, then it just isn't a fluke.

Speaking of data points, given that Fes has played only as much as Ostertag played in his rookie year (and less than half of what Bynum did in his first two years), and given that it's pretty reasonable to assess that Fes is still undeveloped, then the easiest face lift is to actually give these bigs some PT so that they go from being net positive contributors to legit cogs on this team.

If the quips and body language from the mostly-guard workouts over the past few days is any indication, maybe Utah is very open to not drafting a 4/5 anyway. Or maybe they don't like what is likely going to be available at the #9 pick, although I would think that there are a couple of bigs who can probably play defense and will likely still be available.

Did you watch the Laker bigs destroy the Jazz?
Fes is what he is, a big body. Not much in the skill department.
We need some size, and athleticism.
If he is still on the board draft Aldrich.

Yeah, I saw the Laker bigs destroy the Jazz "bigs" (more like "smalls" in the case of Boozer and Millsap).

We've been through this. Fesenko was the only player to have a positive +/- in all four Laker games. And if you go through the play-by-play, you can see that there's a clear differentiation between when Fesenko was in the game and when Boozer & Millsap were in the game together. CB & PM built big deficits repeatedly. Not every time, but yes multiple times during the series.

In other words, Fes is still limited offensively, and he's not even a consistent defender yet (i.e., he has more room to improve than Man and Booze), but he wasn't the problem vs. the Fakers. It was our undersized 4's playing together, and it was Sloan stupidly and habitually and robotically playing those undersized 4's together. In the fourth game, Sloan finally gave major minutes to Fes, but Utah buried themselves a hole in the second quarter, when they were outscored by 12 and Fes didn't play until the last minute or so before halftime.

ROFLMBO @ your recommendation of Aldrich. Look at his highlight video (this is supposed to represent his "best of", BTW) and his weak arms: Aldrich is definitely not as strong as Fesenko, and I doubt he's any more athletic. Maybe he can dunk on college kids averaging 2 or 3 inches shorter, but I'd take Udoh or Whiteside or Orton or maybe Davis before Aldrich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4trsJcFNkw

[drivewayball]

Homerism is to be expected, even anticipated, on a team forum page such as this. However, when the name Deron Williams is tossed into the same sentence with good or even average defender, you have crossed the line. Williams is a productive offensive player and a non-existent defender.

[carrottop12]

We've been through this. Fesenko was the only player to have a positive +/- in all four Laker games. And if you go through the play-by-play, you can see that there's a clear differentiation between when Fesenko was in the game and when Boozer & Millsap were in the game together. CB & PM built big deficits repeatedly. Not every time, but yes multiple times during the series.

In other words, Fes is still limited offensively, and he's not even a consistent defender yet (i.e., he has more room to improve than Man and Booze), but he wasn't the problem vs. the Fakers. It was our undersized 4's playing together, and it was Sloan stupidly and habitually and robotically playing those undersized 4's together. In the fourth game, Sloan finally gave major minutes to Fes, but Utah buried themselves a hole in the second quarter, when they were outscored by 12 and Fes didn't play until the last minute or so before halftime.

ROFLMBO @ your recommendation of Aldrich. Look at his highlight video (this is supposed to represent his "best of", BTW) and his weak arms: Aldrich is definitely not as strong as Fesenko, and I doubt he's any more athletic. Maybe he can dunk on college kids averaging 2 or 3 inches shorter, but I'd take Udoh or Whiteside or Orton or maybe Davis before Aldrich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4trsJcFNkw

Alright, I am going to destroy your argument if you don't mind.

1. +/- is an extremely flawed system, and even over a four game stretch the room for error is massive. Case in point, over a 4 game stretch against the Lakers, Deron Williams had a +/- of -48. Average -12 per game, that is awful.

Ronnie Price had a +/- of +10, an average of +2.5 per game. So should Sloan have pulled Deron in favor of Ronnie Price, even though Deron was clearly the best player for the Jazz in the series?

2. It's obvious the only thing you've seen of Aldrich is this video. If you had seen him play in real game scenario's you would have seen that he is a far superior athlete to Fes in almost every way. While he isn't as tall as Fesenko (2 inches shorter in shoes) his wingspan is actually larger, and his standing reach is only a half inch shorter. His lane agility is very good for a player his size. He recorded faster times than Derrick Favors, Hassan Whiteside, Greg Monroe, Daniel Orton, and Larry Sanders, all guys who are supposedly better athletes than Aldrich. He's a very quick leaper, something you can't say about Fesenko, he has good hands unlike Fesenko, he's a good passer unlike Fesenko, he's a good rebounder unlike Fesenko, he's has good timing unlike Fesenko, he's got a midrange game unlike Fesenko, he uses footwork to get where he needs to unlike Fesenko, he's a quality shot blocker unlike Fesenko, and he's got an above average NBA motor unlike Fesenko.

Seriously, other than weight and height, there isn't one thing Fesenko is better at than Aldrich. While Fesenko does have an ability to clog the lane during short stretches of the game, his lack of NBA skills and his poor physical conditioning prevent him from being anything more than a low minute player.

[carrottop12]

Homerism is to be expected, even anticipated, on a team forum page such as this. However, when the name Deron Williams is tossed into the same sentence with good or even average defender, you have crossed the line. Williams is a productive offensive player and a non-existent defender.

I disagree with this statement, Deron is actually pretty solid defender in many fashions. He puts in a ton of effort on the defensive end, he's an excellent help defender and he's superb defending the pick and roll with his size. He can switch on most pick and roll's and legitimately guard the bigger player in the post. He's also a very good transitional defender, he knocks away more balls of players on the fast break than anyone I can think of in the league. He's also become a solid rebounder for a PG with 4 rebs per.