Biggest story in the finals is the refereeing MERGE

[FlatearthZorro]

Officiating has been ferocious.. Sometimes Lakers get some bad calls, but for the most part referees were probably told by Stern that LA needs to win this series no matter what. It's awful to get such ENORMOUS FT differential. All 3 games LA had at least 10-12 FT more then us. And some of our stars is always in foul trouble- KG, Paul, Ray u name it.

It was really hard for me to accept the officiating yesterday. I was mentally exhausted after watching this game.

[ryaningf]

last night we got off to a good start and the refs were letting everyone play. Phil calls a time out and from there on in it was foul after foul, mostly on us. Whatever flow we had completely was completely stopped by the calls. DO NBA really want to watch the refs call endless fouls or do they want action?

We got off to a good start because the Lakers were asleep and barely ready to play, it had very little to do with the refs "letting us play". Phil called a timeout and woke them up. Simple as that.

Nah--the game was called pretty loosely in those first 6 minutes. After the timeout, the Lakers got 4 straight questionable calls:

1. a Perk 'moving screen' where he was actually set.
2. a play where Pau basically slipped and they called a foul on Rondo and gave two shots to Pau even though he wasn't shooting
3. a questionable ticky-tack And-1 foul where Rondo may or may not have hit Kobe's elbow, giving Rondo his 2nd foul
4. and then Paul's bogus 2nd foul which set him to the bench early;

and turned a 7 point deficit into a 1 point lead in about 2 minutes, the first of a long string of timely questionable calls that seemed to sap almost every Celtic run from there on out. Celtics missed a LOT of shots, makeable and easy shots, but they also got stung with timely questionable calls every time there were about to put together a run. It was seemingly orchestrated, right down to the eminently predictable call early in the 4th where Paul gets into the game for about 30 seconds, gets caught upside his head with an Artest elbow, retaliates by grabbing Artest to regain position, and gets his 5th personal foul. All that while, Bill Kennedy was staring at the play and just happened to miss the first clear foul only to catch the 2nd.

This ish was happening all night and maybe I'm just looking for it and seeing what I'm looking for, but the subjective nature of officiating basketball makes it quite easy to subtly influence a game if you know what you're doing. And give credit to the officials--they sapped every one of our potential runs, got our best scorer in early foul trouble that ruined his rhythm, and did that all while keeping the FTAs even at the end of the game. That, my friend, is that the art of the influence in today's NBA and Game 3 was probably the best example yet of how you can influence a game without leaving tell-tale clues behind that it happened.

The most interesting part of it all was that Bennett Salvatore, one of the worst refs in the league, basically was invisible (as they all should be) for most of the night. It was Bill Kennedy and Danny Crawford doing most of the 'influencing' out there.

[CeltsfaninDC]

this finals series will be remembered as the series where the NBA decided not to let the players play and to have its refs call every ticky tacky foul imaginable. I think some of the tight refereeing is a result of the physical play in the Celtic Orlando series ( thanks Dwight) and I think some of it is the Celts getting screwed by their own reputation. Phil Jackson , as he usually does, started manipulating the refs and this series before it even started and Doc to his credit but perhaps harm as well, said we're going to play our style of ball. Perhps the league reacted to that. Regardless, the number of fouls that have been called clearly show that the finals are being called much differently than the regular season. I said this on Celtic Blog yesterday but if the NBA continues to call the games this tight we have no shot. Add in the star treatment that Kobe gets and the non-star treatment that our guys get and that makes for a very tough road to hoe. I don't want to make this sounds like the only reason we're losing is the refs; we played like crap last night in the first half and we played like crap in game one so we deserved to lose. But there's no question that the tightness of the calls has had a far bigger impact on our style of play than on the Lakers.

I agree and I don't. The officiating has been bad, so in a sense it has been the biggest story. However, it has been bad both ways and I'm not sure the bad calls haven't been relatively balanced both ways.

The notion that we are at more of disadvantage when the game is called tight is an admission that the Lakers are the better team (note: that's not MY admission). Why? Because they are playing under the same rules. So if the refs were calling everything loose instead, that now makes us the better team? I'm not buying it. Give the Lakers credit, this is almost as bad as people giving us no credit for demolishing the Lebron show instead choosing the excuse of his barely problematic elbow as the reason for them losing. I'm not saying the refs are good (they rarely are), but this is just what they do. The Lakers, dare I say, have been the tougher team so far in this series, and to me THAT has been the real story and the difference between who has the series lead.

I am going to disagree with you.
I think, not unlike the NFL, when rule changes are made they effect various aspects of the game. When they change the bump rules on DBs, it allows for the passing game to flourish. This causes teams to look for bigger wideouts who can "go get the ball" and OL who can pass block. These are changes which are known by all teams ahead of time and they can adjust the way they play to the rules and how they will be enforced.

In the NBA, it seems that rule changes can be made on the fly, from series to series and game to game. Teams that have played a certain style of ball all year now have to adjust mid-series to the way the game will be called. This impacts some teams in a positive manner and others in a negative one. This is the main problem everyone has with NBA referring, its completely inconsistent. You can't change the makeup or style of play of your team after an entire regular season a 3 rounds of playoffs. Its absurd.

[SichtingLives]

A couple of things...

- The refs ARE calling these games too tight....but they are calling them too tight both ways. Both teams are getting bad calls.....which in the end makes it even.

- I think the stigma of the lakers being soft and the celtics being the bully is just plain outdated. At one time it was definately true (2008) but now the lakers are bigger, have more length, and quite frankly have more toughness then the celtics due now why?

- You had key players on this team that are no longer with this team like posey.
- The Celtics are a little long in the tooth now (this does not make them a bad team...but lets face it they ARE older)
- Kevin Garnett last nights performance aside is not playing like the Kevin Garnet of old.....he is being affected by a young true center in Bynum and is being bother by the length of Gasol
- Artest makes this lakers team much tougher.....his defense is suffocating......
- The size of the lakers inside make the lakers a tougher team

Rhondo wins his matchup no doubt......but Fisher is scrappy.

This series has a long way to go.....but you have to take these teams for what they are in 2010 not 2008.

I don't think anyone watching this series or having watched the Lakers this year still think they are soft. If people are still referencing that, they haven't been paying attention.

I think Artest's impact on this series was being overstated before it started, and after three games I haven't really seen anything out of him to change my mind about that. He's a good player, tough, physical and makes some heady defensive plays but overall I just don't think he's had the impact on Paul or the games that guys are making it out to be.

The Lakers size is ultimately what puts them where they are, in a commanding position in the NBA finals. Despite having a player like Kobe, you give them slightly smaller and/or lesser skilled bigs and they aren't nearly as good of a team. Then again, if you take away any team's biggest strengths they will be a lesser team so I guess this goes without saying.

The only thing affecting KG to date is that devastating knee injury in Utah. He's never been the same since. And yes, he has alottttttt of tread on those tires as well. I was surprised to see him toy with Gasol in game 3, he went right at him and got whatever he wanted. This will be interesting to see if he keeps up the aggressiveness or if Pau steps up his defensive intensity. Personally I think a huge key to our potential success will be if KG can get Gasol into foul trouble and get him off the floor. No knock on Bynum or Odom but both are a big step down from Gasol and we will see that if Pau is off the court for any extended period of time.

[Red2]

look, everyone knows Doc and Kennedy don't like one another. Kennedy is another one of these refs who think it's about him as opposed to the players and the game and the fans. THe NBA is full of thes refs right now. they want to be celebrities and showmen just like the players. there were some unbelieveably bad calls last night- the offensive foul on Ray comes to mind- where it appears that Kennedy just made up a call for the sake of making a call. Again, my point isn't so much that the refs cost us the game last night ( although I think Doc and Pierce would say differently) as it is that the whole series has been about the refereeing and not the playing. And that's not good for the fans or the players. When someone analyzes this series 10 years from now they're going to see a series where more fouls were called than any other NBA Finals in history. Unless you're rooting for the Lakers or the celts no one wants to watch these games. Let 'em play!

[FlatearthZorro]

And one more thing in these series LA are averaging around 20-30 blocks per game. Cause in ref's eyes they never foul, only "blocks"

[UGA Hayes]

The other thing thats infuriating is the number of fighting for post position calls that are being made and the fact that they are only being called on us. And since when did Pau Gasol because this superstar defensive player who never has fouls called against him. Half of his and Bynums blocks are fouls. Bynum had a particulary egregiopus one against KG toward the end of the game last night.

[John from Hemet]

The other thing thats infuriating is the number of fighting for post position calls that are being made and the fact that they are only being called on us. And since when did Pau Gasol because this superstar defensive player who never has fouls called against him. Half of his and Bynums blocks are fouls. Bynum had a particulary egregiopus one against KG toward the end of the game last night.

You do realize that Gasol and Bynum are being fouled as well? Its the playoffs and they are bigs....they are SUPPOSED to allow some contact.....and they are allowing that contact on both ends.

Right now the Celtics are just getting outplayed by a more physical team in the paint. And Gasol's defensive intensity has actually picked up more this year then in the past. In truth it is not as good as it could be because Bynum's knee injury is keeping him from getting lift. He is doing that strictly off of his length.

[CeltsfaninDC]

Officiating aside you still have to hit shots to win games. The Celtics didn't hit enough last night. Pierce and Allen were just absolute no shows last night.

Completely agree the officiating has been brutal. Both ways.

I hate this kind of false logic....... of course you have to "hit shots" to win games, but when the other team is given more opportunities to "hit shots" through the use of fouls or other violations it changes and limit your opportunities. The make up call on RAllen is the perfect example. The Cs make a good play on one end, are going through their offensive set when Kennedy calls a ridiculous call on Allen coming around a screen. How could Ray "hit shots" to win the game when the ref literally takes the ball out of his hands?

[John from Hemet]

A couple of things...

- The refs ARE calling these games too tight....but they are calling them too tight both ways. Both teams are getting bad calls.....which in the end makes it even.

- I think the stigma of the lakers being soft and the celtics being the bully is just plain outdated. At one time it was definately true (2008) but now the lakers are bigger, have more length, and quite frankly have more toughness then the celtics due now why?

- You had key players on this team that are no longer with this team like posey.
- The Celtics are a little long in the tooth now (this does not make them a bad team...but lets face it they ARE older)
- Kevin Garnett last nights performance aside is not playing like the Kevin Garnet of old.....he is being affected by a young true center in Bynum and is being bother by the length of Gasol
- Artest makes this lakers team much tougher.....his defense is suffocating......
- The size of the lakers inside make the lakers a tougher team

Rhondo wins his matchup no doubt......but Fisher is scrappy.

This series has a long way to go.....but you have to take these teams for what they are in 2010 not 2008.

I don't think anyone watching this series or having watched the Lakers this year still think they are soft. If people are still referencing that, they haven't been paying attention.

I think Artest's impact on this series was being overstated before it started, and after three games I haven't really seen anything out of him to change my mind about that. He's a good player, tough, physical and makes some heady defensive plays but overall I just don't think he's had the impact on Paul or the games that guys are making it out to be.

The Lakers size is ultimately what puts them where they are, in a commanding position in the NBA finals. Despite having a player like Kobe, you give them slightly smaller and/or lesser skilled bigs and they aren't nearly as good of a team. Then again, if you take away any team's biggest strengths they will be a lesser team so I guess this goes without saying.

The only thing affecting KG to date is that devastating knee injury in Utah. He's never been the same since. And yes, he has alottttttt of tread on those tires as well. I was surprised to see him toy with Gasol in game 3, he went right at him and got whatever he wanted. This will be interesting to see if he keeps up the aggressiveness or if Pau steps up his defensive intensity. Personally I think a huge key to our potential success will be if KG can get Gasol into foul trouble and get him off the floor. No knock on Bynum or Odom but both are a big step down from Gasol and we will see that if Pau is off the court for any extended period of time.

When talking about Artest it isn't so much that he is dominating his man (he isn't) as much as he is making his man work a lot harder then a previous laker team would....I mean seriously? Luke Walton? Vladamir Radmonivich? THose guys would get ABUSED this celtics team.

Pao is having a huge impact on this series but dont discount Bynum's contribution here.......he is doing quite well even without the scoring that he has shown in the past. I am suprised we are getting that kind of contribution from him with his knee injury. He knows what is at stake.

[CeltsfaninDC]

You do realize that Gasol and Bynum are being fouled as well? Its the playoffs and they are bigs....they are SUPPOSED to allow some contact.....and they are allowing that contact on both ends.

Absolutely 100% WRONG. You didn't read what he said, did you?

How many times were the Lakers big men called for defensive fouls while trying to jockey for position with celtics players in the paint? (Let me save you some time and answer it for you - ZERO).

[John from Hemet]

Officiating aside you still have to hit shots to win games. The Celtics didn't hit enough last night. Pierce and Allen were just absolute no shows last night.

Completely agree the officiating has been brutal. Both ways.

I hate this kind of false logic....... of course you have to "hit shots" to win games, but when the other team is given more opportunities to "hit shots" through the use of fouls or other violations it changes and limit your opportunities. The make up call on RAllen is the perfect example. The Cs make a good play on one end, are going through their offensive set when Kennedy calls a ridiculous call on Allen coming around a screen. How could Ray "hit shots" to win the game when the ref literally takes the ball out of his hands?

That is because they are setting moving screens. I really dont understand the blame on the officiating it is going both ways. In Game 2 Kobe hardly played due to bad calls on him. That is the way the series is being officiated (and it is being done both ways) so the players have to adjust.

Dont want to get a foul off a pick.....stop moving when you set your screen

[John from Hemet]

You do realize that Gasol and Bynum are being fouled as well? Its the playoffs and they are bigs....they are SUPPOSED to allow some contact.....and they are allowing that contact on both ends.

Absolutely 100% WRONG. You didn't read what he said, did you?

How many times were the Lakers big men called for defensive fouls while trying to jockey for position with celtics players in the paint? (Let me save you some time and answer it for you - ZERO).

How many times have Boston bigs been called for shoves in the back to jocky for position? How many times have Boston Bigs been called for fouls on Bynum and Gasol?

Its all relative....the more physical team is getting the calls right now.

[SichtingLives]

last night we got off to a good start and the refs were letting everyone play. Phil calls a time out and from there on in it was foul after foul, mostly on us. Whatever flow we had completely was completely stopped by the calls. DO NBA really want to watch the refs call endless fouls or do they want action?

We got off to a good start because the Lakers were asleep and barely ready to play, it had very little to do with the refs "letting us play". Phil called a timeout and woke them up. Simple as that.

Nah--the game was called pretty loosely in those first 6 minutes. After the timeout, the Lakers got 4 straight questionable calls:

1. a Perk 'moving screen' where he was actually set.
2. a play where Pau basically slipped and they called a foul on Rondo and gave two shots to Pau even though he wasn't shooting
3. a questionable ticky-tack And-1 foul where Rondo may or may not have hit Kobe's elbow, giving Rondo his 2nd foul
4. and then Paul's bogus 2nd foul which set him to the bench early;

and turned a 7 point deficit into a 1 point lead in about 2 minutes, the first of a long string of timely questionable calls that seemed to sap almost every Celtic run from there on out. Celtics missed a LOT of shots, makeable and easy shots, but they also got stung with timely questionable calls every time there were about to put together a run. It was seemingly orchestrated, right down to the eminently predictable call early in the 4th where Paul gets into the game for about 30 seconds, gets caught upside his head with an Artest elbow, retaliates by grabbing Artest to regain position, and gets his 5th personal foul. All that while, Bill Kennedy was staring at the play and just happened to miss the first clear foul only to catch the 2nd.

This ish was happening all night and maybe I'm just looking for it and seeing what I'm looking for, but the subjective nature of officiating basketball makes it quite easy to subtly influence a game if you know what you're doing. And give credit to the officials--they sapped every one of our potential runs, got our best scorer in early foul trouble that ruined his rhythm, and did that all while keeping the FTAs even at the end of the game. That, my friend, is that the art of the influence in today's NBA and Game 3 was probably the best example yet of how you can influence a game without leaving tell-tale clues behind that it happened.

The most interesting part of it all was that Bennett Salvatore, one of the worst refs in the league, basically was invisible (as they all should be) for most of the night. It was Bill Kennedy and Danny Crawford doing most of the 'influencing' out there.

The thing for me Ryan, is you either think the refs are intentionally pulling strings or you don't. Me, well, I have yet to make my final decision on that and it's unlikely I ever will. I know all too well of the subtle influence they can have on a game and believe me I have lost my **** over just that on many occasions, I just didn't think that subtle influence was as pronounced in this one game as some are saying.

Of the 4 calls you referenced, my old man and I both agreed that the Perk screen was bogus. The Gasol call I honestly don't remember at the moment, but he does a ton of flopping so they may have just gotten fooled as they usually do. The Rondo call I have no problem with, whether he barely grazed the elbow or not that is just a tough call not to make, I'm not a JVG or Mark Jackson puppet but I agree when they said that any contact (or perceived contact) on the elbow of a shooter is an easy call to make. As for all of Paul's fouls I think all but one were justified calls, the problem with the line of thought that he was put in foul trouble by the refs is that you have to believe they are making egregious calls. Maybe they were, but I saw him making a couple foolish decisions and got caught doing it so you have to deal with it from there on out. But hey, you're right about the timing of these things. I dare say the timing of such events as Perk blowing layups, even it were only a few, have as much to do with killing our flow and momentum as the calls that were being made, and in any moment it could easily be one one or the other. There are a lot of factors that can change the tone of a game on cue, and unfortunately the refs are one of those factors. I think a lot of us want the refs to be a sterilized, robotic 3rd party entity but they are human in the end. I personally would love for them to just let the game be played with a lot of contact every game, but then you'd have people talking about how their guys are getting hammered with no calls. I know people want consistency. So do I, but to me as long as the game is called relatively the same for both teams (which I honestly believe it was) I can live with it.

Now I'm only getting on the first quarter. The refs were playing "let's call a make-up foul" through the 3rd and 4th, BUT! and I'm not saying I agree with this, it was done to balance out a bad call on the other end, just as they have always done. Whether that is legit or not is another discussion but as long as it's a standard practice then I can tolerate it.

After they replayed the Odom/Rondo loose ball and gave possession to the C's, my old man says, "Here comes the offensive foul". I'm not even joking, not 2 seconds later we've got an offensive foul. It was a blatant make-up call but only because the refs looked at the replay, WANTED to call a foul on Rondo but weren't in a position to do so, and made it right in their own special way. I do believe there were a few more calls like that earlier in the 4th although I'm not recalling which specific instances. I don't like it but I guess my point is at the end of the day, I see the calls going both ways and in between all of it you still have to be the tougher team. You always have to account for the refs having some influence on the game, positive or negative. I've seen so many games where I've felt the refs just would not let us win a game, but in this one I thought the overriding factor was that the Lakers wouldn't let us win this one. That and chucking bricks.

[return2glory]

Some people need to open their eyes. Enough of this bad officiating at both ends.

Let's look at game 3:

Celtics start off the game strong. Then Rondo was called for a questionable foul with about 5 minutes left in the 1st quarter. It was his second. With Rondo out the Lakers went on a run and built a 17 point led. The Celtics fought back and closed the gap by the start of the 4th. The refs weren't having any of it and called a BS foul on Pierce, his 5th.

People can say "you have to hit shots" all day long. No ****. Both teams have to hit shots. But the refs have made this refs an up hill battle for the Celtics. They wanted the Lakers to win game 2. KG was motivated, came out strong, the refs sat him down with 2 quick fouls. The Celtics over came, with great performances by Ray and Rondo. So Stern said ok, we'll get them back in game 3.

David Stern hand picked Bill Kennedy to officiate game 3. As Kefa461 stated in another thread, "Kennedy ......4 games in the 2010 playoff with the Lakers..all on the road .....all victories for the Lakers."

I keep saying David Stern has to go. It's sad to watch when Stern and his officiating crew have predetermined how the game is going to be played out. It's not that Stern wants the Lakers to win, he would prefer that they did. But most of all, he wants atleast 6 games.

I have a feeling the officiating for game 4 will favor the Celtics.

[mwhis21]

False logic? Because I view the the 5 for 25 from our two best scorers as the reason for our lose? It's so illogical to think scoring more could have won us the game. Stop making excuses and hold the players accountable for their play.

If you want to argue consistency in the officiating then make an argument for it. Don't just come on here and give one example of how the Refs blew a call against the Celtics and think you've made a case that the refs are all for the Lakers.

I'll be the first to admit the officiating has been terrible in this series, but it wasn't the reason we lost Game 1, it wasn't the reason we won Game 2 and it wasn't the reason we lost Game 3. The calls have been terrible each way in this series.

The reason why I see things objectively is because on top of being a Die Hard Celtics fan I'm a die hard NBA fan and Die Hard Basketball fan. I don't let my emotions invested in this series get in the way of how I view the officiating. If you were an LA fan right now you could easily point out every blown call against them and make the same argument.

The point is completely moot on this topic. The Celtics are down 2-1 and have yet to show up as a team and play in these Finals. If they manage to do that they should take 3 of 4 and win Banner 18.

[mwhis21]

Don't blame scoring opportunities on the Refs. That is BOGUS.

We are not rebounding the basketball. That is where scoring opportunities come from. We were out rebound by 11 in our first loss and 8 in our second loss.

Go figure.

We out rebounded the Lakers by 5 in our Game 2 win. Which happened to be the most inspired D we played until the third quarter of last nights game.

[return2glory]

^^^When the refs dictate who plays and how much they play, they take the game out of the players hands.

Examples again: 1. Rondo's two quick fouls. This changed the game. 2. Pierce's 5th foul. This kept the battle for the Celtics an up hill one. IMO, the Celtics were making their comeback. With Pierce, we would have taken a 5 + point lead. Instead we never got closer than 1.

The refs aren't for the Lakers. They are for extending this series. They should let the players play and decide the games.

[KEGster]

http://deadspin.com/5559056/tim-donaghy ... get-worse-

Game 3 is up

[rone415]

Plain and simple it's been bad both ways. It's always worse when you lose you Boston Cry Babies. It's not one sided as most of you think. How many times does KG set illegal picks? Jesus Shuttleworth always pushes off when running through screens and how many times have he been called for a foul? Lakers are a way better team and you guys are just blind to see it. Lakers should be up 3-0 right now, if it wasn't for the terrible calls on Kobe in game 2. Players win games not refs!!! If the C's can't make the adjustments to how da game is being called it's their fault.

Rondo > D Fish
Kobe > Jesus Shuttleworth
Pierce = Ronron. Pierce is on lockdown and please dont say its cause the refs
Gasol > KG
Bynum (50% health) > Perk

Bench, may be you have the slight edge but not by much.

NOW THATS THE TRUTH!!!