Biggest story in the finals is the refereeing MERGE

[RCS926]

What I want to know is if the Lakers have been getting a negative FT differential all post season, why are they getting the benefit of the whistle in the Finals?

That's a good question. It's not something I expected going into the series.

[RCS926]

I do find it ironic that Doc is complaining about moving screens and flops. Boston, along with Utah and Phoenix, is guilty of setting more moving screens than anyone else in the league. As for flopping, Fish is a noted maestro when it comes to drawing offensive fouls, but he absorbs a lot of contact when he draws those fouls. I didn't see Doc complaining when Ray Allen and Rondo flopped to draw fouls against Kobe in game 2. Davis is a flopper as well. There's no way a guy that big and strong should be knocked off his feet as often as Davis is. Pierce is a notorious offensive flopper. He draws a ton of fouls by flopping in non-contact or minimal contact situations. As for last night's game:

- Pierce got caught reaching a lot last night. He got called for the same kinds of fouls that LO did in games 1 and 2. He wasn't jobbed on phantom calls the way Ray was in game 1 and Kobe was in game 2.

- Doc can complain about Fish impeding Ray's progress, but Allen gets away with pushing off on Fish constantly. The offensive foul call on Allen in the 4th was pretty tame compared to what he had been getting away with throughout the game.

- KG was living in the paint the entire game. There were multiple instances where KG was in the lane for 10 seconds, and he scored on 3-4 of those occasions.

- Sheed's foul on Pau where he held his arms forward is something LO gets called for all the time. That's a legit call.

[RCS926]

One more thing. Hand-checking is supposed to be illegal when the offensive player dribbles the ball, yet Boston gets away with hand-checking Kobe all the time. Ray, in particular, is guilty of doing this.

[CeltsfaninDC]

That is because they are setting moving screens. I really dont understand the blame on the officiating it is going both ways. In Game 2 Kobe hardly played due to bad calls on him. That is the way the series is being officiated (and it is being done both ways) so the players have to adjust.

Dont want to get a foul off a pick.....stop moving when you set your screen

I'll try this again....
Ray Allen was moving without the ball (not setting a screen). Fisher is draped all over him and Allen is called for the foul. It was a makeup call because the other ref gave the Cs the ball on the other end of the court and kennedy wanted to make up for that call.

[RCS926]

Check out this link. Perkins talks about the fact that he knows that he sets illegal screens at times but does so anyway because he knows that the refs can't call all of them. Perkins and KG are notorious for setting illegal screens, so it's just laughable to me that Doc actually sent the NBA a video that documents the alleged illegal screens set by the Lakers.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... e-envelope

[PPAW4Life]

Doc hasn't complained (at least not in public) about moving screens all season long.

I think he and the coaching staff are tired of believing that the Celtics are the only team that sets moving screens. (Or gets called for them).

[Put Back Dunk]

The fact that three out-of-bounds calls had to be reviewed and ultimately overturned in just the last two minutes of game 3 speaks volumes about the officiating in this series.

Think about that. Only 2 out of the 144 minutes played thus far, and only out-of-bounds calls out of the giant array of different calls they have made in all three games.....and they basically had to admit to blowing 3 calls in such a small sample to draw from.

The Celtics started off game 3 on fire with the refs just letting both teams play, but as soon as Phil Jackson called a timeout to stop the bleeding the whistles came almost everytime down the floor and helped LA jump way ahead. In the second half, for the most part, there wasn't as many fouls/whistles and it was a competitive, fun game to watch.

Even if the C's lose in 5 I just want to see them actually f***ing play, not watch the refs take control because they're terrified that physical play will spark another 'brawl at the Palace' situation.

[CeltsfaninDC]

You do realize that Gasol and Bynum are being fouled as well? Its the playoffs and they are bigs....they are SUPPOSED to allow some contact.....and they are allowing that contact on both ends.

Absolutely 100% WRONG. You didn't read what he said, did you?

How many times were the Lakers big men called for defensive fouls while trying to jockey for position with celtics players in the paint? (Let me save you some time and answer it for you - ZERO).

How many times have Boston bigs been called for shoves in the back to jocky for position? How many times have Boston Bigs been called for fouls on Bynum and Gasol?

Its all relative....the more physical team is getting the calls right now.

I think you just made my point for me...... thanks. The Lakers have not been called once in the last game for pushing a Cs player out of the paint. Cs were called numerous times.

[RCS926]

^^^
Laker bigs don't have to push off to grab rebounds since they have the height, size and length advantage.

[CeltsfaninDC]

The reason why I see things objectively is because on top of being a Die Hard Celtics fan I'm a die hard NBA fan and Die Hard Basketball fan. I don't let my emotions invested in this series get in the way of how I view the officiating. If you were an LA fan right now you could easily point out every blown call against them and make the same argument.

The point is completely moot on this topic. The Celtics are down 2-1 and have yet to show up as a team and play in these Finals. If they manage to do that they should take 3 of 4 and win Banner 18.

Oh, thats right, I forgot..... YOU are the objective Celtics fan because you understand basketball so much better than all of us people who are not real ATHALETES. So silly of me to forget.
<<<Just make shots and the Celtics will win>>> now I get it....

[Mezotarkus]

I proposed this earlier in the playoffs this year. The league needs to institute a referee auditing function. After every playoff game, a group of respected basketball people (e.g., former coaches like Jeff Van Gundy, etc.) watch a game and document bad calls (foul calls that were not fouls), no calls, and other questionable refereeing and publish their conclusions for all to see.

This will put the refs on their toes as well as the league. If anything, the players association can require this as part of the CBA negotiation.

As an NBA fan, I should not have to be concerned about who is officiating a game. Right now, I check who the officials are and there are some whom I dread seeing as being the refs for games. The league SHOULD NOT be tolerating that circumstance.

This damn idiocy the league has of no one can criticize the refs is absurd. There has to be consequences for incompetent refereeing.

[celtics792244]

Man... how much would you pay to see these two teams to lace them up on some playground somewhere... These refs are ruining the game. Both ways. I find myself saying out loud, "Let them play", whenever the games are on my TV. I've been switching on and off because of all the free-throws. Whoa... that was exciting <yawn>. I don't need to hear a fricken whistle when the ball is 94 feet away from the basket (game 2, Fisher fouls Rondo). Hell with that, PLAY ON! Sick of fouls when guys are fighting for positioning on the block. Always could go either way, LET IT GO! Sick of the moving pick, PLAY ON. Both teams are guilty of it, let it go. Seriously, I hate the Lakers, but I'm still yelling to play on when they even call a foul on them!

THERE IS NO FLOW TO THE GAME. This is crucial NBA to draw new fans. This version of the game is b-o-r-i-n-g. This is Knicks vs. Heat with scores 69-68, but with 20 - 30 freethrows to make final scores 99 -98 with main players not showcased because of foul trouble. NBA wants more scoring, this is not the way about it. Give me 69 - 68 games without so many free throws, but a game with flow, anyday of the week.

Man, you know its bad when fans know every fricken officials names and faces. Man up Stern, your league has a huge fricken problem. $400 million dollar loss because of these incompetent idiots. All you doing is turning off the fans you are lucky enough to have, and not drawing any new ones. This brand of basketball sucks.

[jsimon]

I still find it very telling that after Ray Allen and Paul Pierce had to essentially sit out games 1 and 3 of this series because of foul trouble there was nary a peep from the media, but when Kobe has to ride pine or play tentative in game 2 because of his five fouls there was a national catastrophe and media firestorm... hmmmm

[celtics792244]

I keep thinking about the question I started my last post with... How much would you pay to see these two teams lace them up and play on some playground somewhere?

That is to say with 'ref interferance'. Settle it by playing basketball. Not an endless freethrow parade due to a 'fouls' made 50 - 94 feet away from the basket which puts teams over the limit. But by playing basketball. This is where the NBA should be aiming for.

As some other poster perfectly put it in the orlando series, I'm at an age now where I do not settle for substandard product. I'm foolishly emotionally attached to this sport since 1985 when we lost to LA, but will break ties to it when this current crop of C's break up. Not because of rebuilding, I actually enjoyed the Pitino years and watching PP grow as a player, but the sport no longer resembles the game that entranced me when I was a child.

I was going to buy a retro #44 Ainge jersey, (great for the beach), but will no longer spend my hard earned money on NBA products unless there a major effort from the league to clean up its official problems. It starts with the commissioner admitting there is a problem.

C's in 6.

[ahonui06]

Refs are destroying this Finals and attempting to make it a game of the benches. Seems like every game that at least 2 starters have foul trouble by the time the 1st quarter is over.

[celtics792244]

Forget Jordan's last second shot against Utah in '98. Forget Magics f***ing baby hook in '87. Forget Henderson steals the ball in '84. Oh the almighty free-throw.

Free-thows are lovely. They are exciting. Nothing as memerizing as watching a basketball player take 10 seconds to walk to the line. recieve the ball, and taking 5 - 9 seconds to hoist up a ten foot uncontested shot, and then repeat.

Then there is the downer time when the other team takes the ball out of bounds, races up the court, passes the ball 6-7 times with pin-point accurate passes, makes a boring alley-oop reverse dunk.

Finally we get what we all want to see. The other team dribble up the court, gets a tiny little hip bump away from the ball, and back to the free throw line. Yippeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

The NBA is Fantastic!!!!!!!!!

[ryaningf]

Just got done watching the Rondo/Baby/KG/Paul interviews from practice today (at http://www.csnne.com/pages/celtics_video)...and frankly I'm worried by the frequency with which they alluded to foul trouble in their answers. Of course, foul trouble did ruin Paul's night, and Ray's night in Game 1, and KG's in Game 2, and it's been a HUGE story all Finals long....so they are right, technically speaking, but I'd like them to concentrate more on playing though bad officiating and worry about what *they* can do to play better, especially when they talk to the media.

There was plenty that went wrong in Game 3 that didn't involve the officiating and since you can't really control the officials I don't see the point in blaming them for this or that..even when in fact they might be to blame for this or that. Players need to concentrate on what they can affect, and tune out everything else, including the officials. Of course, it's tough not to refer to foul trouble when every other question you get is about the officiating in this series.

[UGA Hayes]

^ yeah but it really does matter. In almost every post season loss this year we have had foul trouble-in particular if rondo picks up a second in the first quarter. Whats really frustrating is that not a lot of them are of the reach/over the back/stupid foul variety. Iss a lot of subjective screens, fighting for position,block/charge type stuff that you can't really do a lot about. Refs can call those things every play of the game and they have. I'm not sure how you can adjust without killing your defense,

[UGA Hayes]

I do find it ironic that Doc is complaining about moving screens and flops. Boston, along with Utah and Phoenix, is guilty of setting more moving screens than anyone else in the league. As for flopping, Fish is a noted maestro when it comes to drawing offensive fouls, but he absorbs a lot of contact when he draws those fouls. I didn't see Doc complaining when Ray Allen and Rondo flopped to draw fouls against Kobe in game 2. Davis is a flopper as well. There's no way a guy that big and strong should be knocked off his feet as often as Davis is. Pierce is a notorious offensive flopper. He draws a ton of fouls by flopping in non-contact or minimal contact situations. As for last night's game:

- Pierce got caught reaching a lot last night. He got called for the same kinds of fouls that LO did in games 1 and 2. He wasn't jobbed on phantom calls the way Ray was in game 1 and Kobe was in game 2.

- Doc can complain about Fish impeding Ray's progress, but Allen gets away with pushing off on Fish constantly. The offensive foul call on Allen in the 4th was pretty tame compared to what he had been getting away with throughout the game.

- KG was living in the paint the entire game. There were multiple instances where KG was in the lane for 10 seconds, and he scored on 3-4 of those occasions.

- Sheed's foul on Pau where he held his arms forward is something LO gets called for all the time. That's a legit call.

Well I don't think Boston fans would mind us getting called for moving screens as long as it is called both ways. It was funny in the Orlando series SVG was lauded for adjusting to Rondo by setting moving screens, and then the only moving screen in the games called were on Perkins. I think he is kind of trying to preemptively prevent the Lakers from using the same tactics, as Fishers run coincided with the Lakers using the same strategy. Again I don;t care if they call it or not but they should be consistent.

As for Ray and Fisher. Its definitely a hard matchup to call b/c there is a degree of hand fighting on both sides. I suspect this is one of those things where neither fan is rightfully going to be happen. On the Fisher flopping thing, come on just admit it. I think most Boston fans would admit that Pierce is a bit of on offensive flopper (although Kobe is pretty good at it). But its night and day b/t Pierce and Fisher. Were Pierce may flop on (just making it up) 20 % of plays, Fisher flop damn near 75-80% of the time. Its damn near the only thing he does defensively anymore and its outrageous how often he gets the benefit of the doubt. In the last game of the Pheonix series he (and Pau) had some flops that were disgusting, literally throwing themselves to the floor with no contact at all, not selling contact-just throwing himself to the floor. I agree with you on Glen Davis, he has gotten more calls then he deserves from flopping.

I'm not sure about KG in the paint, you could be right about that, but its no more than Andrew "I'll stand by the basket for 10 seconds until someone throws me a lob pass" Bynum.

You are just wrong on the Sheed/PAu call. That was a terrible call. If the same thing is happening to Odom than its an equally terrible call.

[Roscoe Sheed]

^

Exactly, Sheed's arms weren't straight up, but he DIDN'T TOUCH Pau- how can that be a foul?