2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[vincecarter4pres]

On a side note this song is pretty dope.
Never heard of this dude before.
I'm looking him up on Wiki and they say he is a "Christian hip hop" artist?

HELLZ NO he's not christian rap, unless he got born again or something. He's from LA Symphony, you never heard of them? He's pretty good if you're into that kind of style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_John

Reminds me of Mos Def or Da Bush Babees...

[vincecarter4pres]

Personally, not to get in the middle of this, but I think you're both wrong.

There can be only one!

[demens]

On a side note this song is pretty dope.
Never heard of this dude before.
I'm looking him up on Wiki and they say he is a "Christian hip hop" artist?

HELLZ NO he's not christian rap, unless he got born again or something. He's from LA Symphony, you never heard of them? He's pretty good if you're into that kind of style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_John

Reminds me of Mos Def or Da Bush Babees...

Yeah, i dont know about the Christian Rap part, i have 3 of his albums plus the LA Symph stuff, who knows. I posted some songs in the random thread you can check out.

[Jersey Generals]

Man, don't make me behead you and suck out the energy and knowledge inside.



To anybody who doesn't get that reference, no I am not a psychopath.

[vincecarter4pres]

Man, don't make me behead you and suck out the energy and knowledge inside.



To anybody who doesn't get that reference, no I am not a psychopath.

[enetric]

Personally, not to get in the middle of this, but I think you're both wrong.

He feels bailing out on going after Lebron 21 days before free agency, using up 11 mil in cap space on a SF who may not be much better than Twill in a year while lowering our pick from 3-7 in a 2 man draft that has perhaps another rung of 2-4 decent prospects, plus Yi, plus Humphires is a great move...and most of the rest of us think its a joke.

You feel there is a third option?

Please share...

[demens]

Personally, not to get in the middle of this, but I think you're both wrong.

He feels bailing out on going after Lebron 21 days before free agency, using up 11 mil in cap space on a SF who may not be much better than Twill in a year while lowering our pick from 3-7 in a 2 man draft that has perhaps another rung of 2-4 decent prospects, plus Yi, plus Humphires is a great move...and most of the rest of us think its a joke.

You feel there is a third option?

Please share...

I like how YOU keep telling ME, what I think. Thats just excellent.

I'll repeat one more time, maybe it'll get through out thick skull this time. EVERY deal i talked about left room not only for Lebron but also for a MAX free agent the year after.

In the Price deal we're sending back a player making over $3mil and taking a lower pick by 4 spots. Thats using up about $7million of cap not $11! 2 man draft, 10 draft, you're clueless regardless, i'm lowing the pick by 4 spots and picking yet another top 10 pick for next season.

You can't even get the facts right i'm wondering what at is you've been writing these useless novels about.

[enetric]

You really are a fool.

Get it through your head. Why in the world would we give 11 mil in cap plus other assets to add a veteran guy who will not spread the floor and plays the same position as the guy we want to go after? Bigger question...why would HE have an extra enticement to come here after that rediculously BAD TRADE?

Its 11mil in cap space. Yes, 7-8mil in the exchange...but 11 mil of OUR TEAM's CAP committed to that guy. Which means instead of us trying to move out Yi, Humphries and CDR to get to the 12-13 mil in space for a MUCH BETTER free agent than we would have in Tay Prince...you know a guy who might play another spot...while KEEPING the VASTLY better #3...and yes in this draft...if you told me you were trading #7 for #17 I would be less upset than #3 for #7!!!!!! It is a MAJOR change for a player...NO ONE WANTS...NO ONE NEEDS...and you did absoluitely NOTHING to help this team long term. NOTHING. You made a horrible trade. Your entire justification is about not getting two max guys this year.

But that has NOTHING to do with why pretty much everyone can see your trade ideas SUCK MONKEY NUTS. Why you clearly have no understanding of how this thing works. WHy this trade is TERRIBLE.

As for telling you what you think...I am not. I can see like everyone else, you have been telling us over and over and almost everyone has called you out on it. You are looking for anything rather than nothing. Your are the king of mediocore moves just for the hell of it. All you care about is adding crap pieces because hey they are slightly better than what we have. With 12 wins...how in the world can you justify Tay Prince for a year over a #3 pick, Yi, CDR, Humphries and deliberately filling the position in line up that the guy we most covet plays?????

You area a joke the more you continue to concede nothing. Truly a giant ass clown.

[deviljets7]

I'll repeat one more time, maybe it'll get through out thick skull this time. EVERY deal i talked about left room not only for Lebron but also for a MAX free agent the year after.

It's time for some math and salary cap lessons:

Here are the current salaries committed for 2011/12. I'm assuming the team options for Lopez/Williams/Lee are exercised and Yi/CDR are not tendered as RFAs.

Harris: $9,319,000
Lopez: $3,076,983
Williams: $2,369,040
Lee: $2,225,093
Total: $16,990,116

Now you have pick #3 and #27 in this draft (2nd rounders aren't on guaranteed contracts so we'll ignore pick #31 for the moment). Here are the Year 2 salaries for the 2009 #3 and #27 picks: James Harden ($4,304,520) and DeMarre Carroll ($1,085,400).

Add those 2 salaries and we are at $22,380,036 for 6 players.

Now here is where your plan falls apart. A MAX free agent contract for a guy with 7 or more years in the league (applies to all potential MAX guys) is 30%. The maximum annual raise you can offer to another team's FA (ie: no s&t) is 8% per season. This year's projected salary cap is $56.1 million. Based on these figures, if you sign a MAX free agent the 2010/11 salary is $16,830,000. The 2011/12 salary would be $18,176,400. This does not take into account the higher raise rate (10.5%) a FA can get through a s&t.

Now add that $18,176,400 salary and you have $40,556,436 committed to just 7 players. This has yet to account for the salary of your 2011 1st rounder, this year's pick 31 (if you want to keep him), or the cap holds for having less than 12 players under contract.

The cap this year is expected to be $56.1 million, it marks the second straight year the cap has gone down. Is there really any reason to believe the cap is going to go up a year from now? If the cap stays the same, you are roughly $5 million short of a MAX deal.

The bottom line is this. It is financially impossible to keep your 3 most valuable current assets (Harris, Lopez and pick #3), a MAX free agent in 2010 and a MAX free agent in 2011.

[Jersey Generals]

I'll repeat one more time, maybe it'll get through out thick skull this time. EVERY deal i talked about left room not only for Lebron but also for a MAX free agent the year after.

It's time for some math and salary cap lessons:

Here are the current salaries committed for 2011/12. I'm assuming the team options for Lopez/Williams/Lee are exercised and Yi/CDR are not tendered as RFAs.

Harris: $9,319,000
Lopez: $3,076,983
Williams: $2,369,040
Lee: $2,225,093
Total: $16,990,116

Now you have pick #3 and #27 in this draft (2nd rounders aren't on guaranteed contracts so we'll ignore pick #31 for the moment). Here are the Year 2 salaries for the 2009 #3 and #27 picks: James Harden ($4,304,520) and DeMarre Carroll ($1,085,400).

The bottom line is this. It is financially impossible to keep your 3 most valuable current assets (Harris, Lopez and pick #3), a MAX free agent in 2010 and a MAX free agent in 2011.

Well, in his scenario, it would be the #7 pick, not the #3. The cap hold for the 7th would be 2.3 million, with Jerebko making 800 grand this year, meaning it would be 3.1....a million less than Harden's cap hold.

[deviljets7]

I'll repeat one more time, maybe it'll get through out thick skull this time. EVERY deal i talked about left room not only for Lebron but also for a MAX free agent the year after.

It's time for some math and salary cap lessons:

Here are the current salaries committed for 2011/12. I'm assuming the team options for Lopez/Williams/Lee are exercised and Yi/CDR are not tendered as RFAs.

Harris: $9,319,000
Lopez: $3,076,983
Williams: $2,369,040
Lee: $2,225,093
Total: $16,990,116

Now you have pick #3 and #27 in this draft (2nd rounders aren't on guaranteed contracts so we'll ignore pick #31 for the moment). Here are the Year 2 salaries for the 2009 #3 and #27 picks: James Harden ($4,304,520) and DeMarre Carroll ($1,085,400).

The bottom line is this. It is financially impossible to keep your 3 most valuable current assets (Harris, Lopez and pick #3), a MAX free agent in 2010 and a MAX free agent in 2011.

Well, in his scenario, it would be the #7 pick, not the #3. The cap hold for the 7th would be 2.3 million, with Jerebko making 800 grand this year, meaning it would be 3.1....a million less than Harden's cap hold.

This is about 2011/12 salaries and his claim of a MAX free agent in 2010 and 2011.

Unless you're going to keep pick #7 unsigned for 2 seasons (which is insanity), the accurate number to use would be what the actual salary would be in year 2. The 2nd year salary for this year's #7 pick (Curry) is $2,913,840. Jerebko as an early-bird RFA would have a cap hold of $1,059,293. You're also forgetting cost/cap hold of the 2011 DET pick.

My comments and criticism had nothing to do with this specific trade. The post was about his claim about signing a MAX free agent this summer and next summer.

Here is the bottom line, even if you were to sacrifice Terrence Williams, Courtney Lee and the 2011 1st rounder for cap space, you can not afford a MAX FA in 2010 and another one in 2011.

[Jersey Generals]

I wrote out about five different replies to what you said, but they all sound argumentative and I wasn't disagreeing with your assessment in the first place, so I'm not even going to bother.

[enetric]

And the latest cap projection is now down to 55.89 with so many playoff series ending quickly this year...lowered league revenue. Not a final number though.

And the threat of a lockout and the new CBA sounding very far apart from what the players want and what the owners want....2011 cap could be an absolute dissaster.

Thanks as always for hammering the point home.

Still tickled that a trade idea that gives up so many chips and so much cap flexibility for the right to add TAY PRINCE of all people got anyone this heated!!!! Just a goofy trade idea in the first place but the reasoning behind it make it sheer entertainment!!!!

Jersey Generals I would love to hear your response the question I asked of you. As that your response didnt make sense to me or VC4pres.

BTw, not against making any trades...just not going to make one this stupid on June 10th!!!!!

[ju1092]

[jeff1624]

I keep seeing CDR as a potential player to trade away for cap space.. Not really sure I understand. Sure the guy is a pain in the ass and is inmature as hell, but all of that was noticeable because we didn't have a real coach to call him on it. With Avery that all changes. He still remains a rather talented player.. he could be an elite 6th man one of these days because he CAN score. Despite being thin he can finish inside.. besides, dude is making less than a mil next season. Any trade he's involved in wouldn't really provide much cap space, we'd be practically giving him away, something I sure as hell don't wanna do.

..and if we really do need that extra mil, I'd rather trade Courtney ''can't pass or hit a layup to save his life'' Lee. He's a dime a dozen, there are a ton of players that can be plugged in at the 2 spot and do everything he does but better.

[demens]

You really are a fool.

Get it through your head. Why in the world would we give 11 mil in cap plus other assets to add a veteran guy who will not spread the floor and plays the same position as the guy we want to go after? Bigger question...why would HE have an extra enticement to come here after that rediculously BAD TRADE?

Its 11mil in cap space. Yes, 7-8mil in the exchange...but 11 mil of OUR TEAM's CAP committed to that guy. Which means instead of us trying to move out Yi, Humphries and CDR to get to the 12-13 mil in space for a MUCH BETTER free agent than we would have in Tay Prince...you know a guy who might play another spot...while KEEPING the VASTLY better #3...and yes in this draft...if you told me you were trading #7 for #17 I would be less upset than #3 for #7!!!!!! It is a MAJOR change for a player...NO ONE WANTS...NO ONE NEEDS...and you did absoluitely NOTHING to help this team long term. NOTHING. You made a horrible trade. Your entire justification is about not getting two max guys this year.

But that has NOTHING to do with why pretty much everyone can see your trade ideas SUCK MONKEY NUTS. Why you clearly have no understanding of how this thing works. WHy this trade is TERRIBLE.

As for telling you what you think...I am not. I can see like everyone else, you have been telling us over and over and almost everyone has called you out on it. You are looking for anything rather than nothing. Your are the king of mediocore moves just for the hell of it. All you care about is adding crap pieces because hey they are slightly better than what we have. With 12 wins...how in the world can you justify Tay Prince for a year over a #3 pick, Yi, CDR, Humphries and deliberately filling the position in line up that the guy we most covet plays?????

You area a joke the more you continue to concede nothing. Truly a giant ass clown.

Again, what we're talking about does not take a novel to reply. You can easily put your thoughts that have any relevance to what we're talking about into 2 paragraphs max. Until you do i wont be reading anything you write.

[demens]

I'll repeat one more time, maybe it'll get through out thick skull this time. EVERY deal i talked about left room not only for Lebron but also for a MAX free agent the year after.

It's time for some math and salary cap lessons:

Here are the current salaries committed for 2011/12. I'm assuming the team options for Lopez/Williams/Lee are exercised and Yi/CDR are not tendered as RFAs.

Harris: $9,319,000
Lopez: $3,076,983
Williams: $2,369,040
Lee: $2,225,093
Total: $16,990,116

Now you have pick #3 and #27 in this draft (2nd rounders aren't on guaranteed contracts so we'll ignore pick #31 for the moment). Here are the Year 2 salaries for the 2009 #3 and #27 picks: James Harden ($4,304,520) and DeMarre Carroll ($1,085,400).

Add those 2 salaries and we are at $22,380,036 for 6 players.

Now here is where your plan falls apart. A MAX free agent contract for a guy with 7 or more years in the league (applies to all potential MAX guys) is 30%. The maximum annual raise you can offer to another team's FA (ie: no s&t) is 8% per season. This year's projected salary cap is $56.1 million. Based on these figures, if you sign a MAX free agent the 2010/11 salary is $16,830,000. The 2011/12 salary would be $18,176,400. This does not take into account the higher raise rate (10.5%) a FA can get through a s&t.

Now add that $18,176,400 salary and you have $40,556,436 committed to just 7 players. This has yet to account for the salary of your 2011 1st rounder, this year's pick 31 (if you want to keep him), or the cap holds for having less than 12 players under contract.

The cap this year is expected to be $56.1 million, it marks the second straight year the cap has gone down. Is there really any reason to believe the cap is going to go up a year from now? If the cap stays the same, you are roughly $5 million short of a MAX deal.

The bottom line is this. It is financially impossible to keep your 3 most valuable current assets (Harris, Lopez and pick #3), a MAX free agent in 2010 and a MAX free agent in 2011.

If you've read and understood any of my previous posts you'd know exactly where your math falls apart, it does since we're talking about 2 different things. I've repeated MULTIPLE times. Every trade proposed left us room for Lebron THIS year and if that didnt work out, it left out us room for Melo NEXT year. Maybe i didn't write that clear enough in the post you quoted but the idea has been the same in absolutely every post so there is no reason for you not to understand it.

Another mistake in your math is what Jersey Gen already pointed out.

My math is exactly on point but i'm glad you did the break down, hopefully your buddy E might learn something.

And lastly, i love how in the currently situation we are in, in which we dont have enough room for 2 max free agents. This is the situation in which a hypothetical trade to shed cap is possible to acquire that needed extra room. But in YOUR scenario (note not mine, this is something you THOUGHT i was saying, but either way), in that scenario in which we dont have enough room for a 2nd Max (JUST LIKE NOW), in that scenario, a hypothetical trade to shed salary is somehow outside of the wonderworld of possibilities, care to explain why that is?

[demens]

This is about 2011/12 salaries and his claim of a MAX free agent in 2010 and 2011.

Jesus Christ.

[Jersey Generals]

Jersey Generals I would love to hear your response the question I asked of you. As that your response didnt make sense to me or VC4pres.

I just think you're overlooking the fact that the max contracts are going to be sign and trades, that's all. By taking on rookie scale contracts, you're not hurting yourself, you're helping your cause by the fact that now you can trade them. That's not to say you should take on crap along with those rookie contracts, but if you get Love without any other salary, I don't see how you turn that down. As long as a trade does not disrupt one slot for a max contract, that's all that really matters.

And not to complicate matters, but Vince's picture is of the Highlander, so he clearly understood what I meant.

[enetric]

I'll repeat one more time, maybe it'll get through out thick skull this time. EVERY deal i talked about left room not only for Lebron but also for a MAX free agent the year after.

It's time for some math and salary cap lessons:

Here are the current salaries committed for 2011/12. I'm assuming the team options for Lopez/Williams/Lee are exercised and Yi/CDR are not tendered as RFAs.

Harris: $9,319,000
Lopez: $3,076,983
Williams: $2,369,040
Lee: $2,225,093
Total: $16,990,116

Now you have pick #3 and #27 in this draft (2nd rounders aren't on guaranteed contracts so we'll ignore pick #31 for the moment). Here are the Year 2 salaries for the 2009 #3 and #27 picks: James Harden ($4,304,520) and DeMarre Carroll ($1,085,400).

Add those 2 salaries and we are at $22,380,036 for 6 players.

Now here is where your plan falls apart. A MAX free agent contract for a guy with 7 or more years in the league (applies to all potential MAX guys) is 30%. The maximum annual raise you can offer to another team's FA (ie: no s&t) is 8% per season. This year's projected salary cap is $56.1 million. Based on these figures, if you sign a MAX free agent the 2010/11 salary is $16,830,000. The 2011/12 salary would be $18,176,400. This does not take into account the higher raise rate (10.5%) a FA can get through a s&t.

Now add that $18,176,400 salary and you have $40,556,436 committed to just 7 players. This has yet to account for the salary of your 2011 1st rounder, this year's pick 31 (if you want to keep him), or the cap holds for having less than 12 players under contract.

The cap this year is expected to be $56.1 million, it marks the second straight year the cap has gone down. Is there really any reason to believe the cap is going to go up a year from now? If the cap stays the same, you are roughly $5 million short of a MAX deal.

The bottom line is this. It is financially impossible to keep your 3 most valuable current assets (Harris, Lopez and pick #3), a MAX free agent in 2010 and a MAX free agent in 2011.

If you've read and understood any of my previous posts you'd know exactly where your math falls apart, it does since we're talking about 2 different things. I've repeated MULTIPLE times. Every trade proposed left us room for Lebron THIS year and if that didnt work out, it left out us room for Melo NEXT year. Maybe i didn't write that clear enough in the post you quoted but the idea has been the same in absolutely every post so there is no reason for you not to understand it.

Another mistake in your math is what Jersey Gen already pointed out.

My math is exactly on point but i'm glad you did the break down, hopefully your buddy E might learn something.

And lastly, i love how in the currently situation we are in, in which we dont have enough room for 2 max free agents. This is the situation in which a hypothetical trade to shed cap is possible to acquire that needed extra room. But in YOUR scenario (note not mine, this is something you THOUGHT i was saying, but either way), in that scenario in which we dont have enough room for a 2nd Max (JUST LIKE NOW), in that scenario, a hypothetical trade to shed salary is somehow outside of the wonderworld of possibilities, care to explain why that is?

Thanks for the novel where you once again tried to take on the world no matter how many people show you how wrong you are. Go back and read through. You continue to destroy your own credibility. You really made yourself look like a fool. How is it possible that everyone is taking your the same way, tells you why your ideas suck, and you sti there thining you are the guy who has something t teach here? You are the guy who needs to shut and learn in the worst way.

The very definition of Billy Joel's Angry Young Man

PS- You have yet to answer the biggest question. Why weaken our pick, give up trade assets, waste 11 mil in cap space on a medicore SF with no perimiter game when our main goal is to land a 17 mil SF in the same off season?